Fs-ze + T - Need help/ideas

[Kona051]

Hi all,

Im new to this forum, been looking on here awhile for inspiration. Just to start off, im from New Zealand, purchased my Mazda Familia Sport 20, which to most of you is a protege 5 to my understand with a FS-ZE engine and 4wd gear box. I purchased this car, not thinking much about he engine, then i came onto here and found out alot. So i say thanks to all of you who have informed me!

Ok my idea was, which i need help with. I have an FS-ZE, which has the 10.5 compression. Now im looking into the idea of forced induction. boost. So i just need some clarification on a few thing to help me out. I was looking at buying the MSP turbo setup of someone in america, as we never got them over here. So thats turbo manifold... so on. First question is ECU, will the mazdaspeed ecu, in short, "plug in" to the FS-ZE harness? Next question is pistons. As the 10.5 compression is quiet high, i will need to drop this, was thinking of trying to find fsde pistons and using them? will i need rods off an fsde or the FSZE ones fine, maybe try and find the ford probe pistons which have a 9.1-1 compression? will these work fine? what other internals need to be looked at?

Basically im trying to put a cost up of how much it will be to turbo my car. I also have the 4wd gearbox and was curious to how much this will take the power? will it give out?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Connor

 

[AusOrion]

The stock rods are the same between the fs-de and -ze but seeing as will be changing the pistons, you might as well upgrade the rods. I would recommend using lower compression pistons - such as the 9.1 versions - as there is a guy here in Australia that went turbo with 9.7 pistons and struggled to make power.

 

[tweety2300]

Msp should plug in for the most part but I would assume you are obd1 so you will need to make the changes for that. I would say just tune your ecu if a piggy back is made for it. You should be able to use the ssafc. I'm wondering how much power the 4wd tranny can take or the transfer case

 

[i12drivemyMP5]

Welcome aboard, now please, pics! We don't get to see the AWD versions much here and the few that have come and gone took their pics.

 

[AusOrion]

I dont think that the MSP ecu will work. The JDM versions of the car (which will include the Sport20) have the 3 plug setup where as the US cars have a single plug.

Easiest way to check is to have a look at the ecu (and plugs) locatued under the kick panel on the floor of the passenger's side of the cabin.

 

[Ice88]

Ok my idea was, which i need help with. I have an FS-ZE, which has the 10.5 compression.

You actually have 10.4:1 Compression.

First question is ECU, will the mazdaspeed ecu, in short, "plug in" to the FS-ZE harness?

Nope. Will require hacking of the engine loom to work, even then it wont work well as the compression and cams are radically different. A full EMS would really be needed to cope with it. Not to mention avoid zoom zoom booming in very short order.

Next question is pistons. As the 10.5 compression is quiet high, i will need to drop this, was thinking of trying to find fsde pistons and using them?

The australian pistons will yield you 9.7:1 compression still to high on stock rods really to make any real power, you will need lower compression pistons or AUDM pistons plus much stronger rods with moderatley low boost.

what other internals need to be looked at?

Depends on what you want out of the engine.

Basically im trying to put a cost up of how much it will be to turbo my car. I also have the 4wd gearbox and was curious to how much this will take the power? will it give out?

Dont think anyone really knows, the only place that got the 4wd boxes is Japan and further on down the line NZ. From what I recall rupe telling me they wont handle alot. Whats defined as alot im not sure, best thing IMO is to throw on a pair of good headers, CAI, midpipe, exhaust and see if you can track down a mazdaspeed exhaust cam if that doesnt give you enough powah.

That or start collecting NA parts. Will cost you less to go hardish NA then it would low boost as you wont need to rebuild to go NA...

 

[Kona051]

Awesome, thanks for the information!

Was thinking more on it today, maybe worth just going all out, instead of just slightly doing it, save up more and do it properly. But then i still come across the 4wd gearbox and how much it can handle. So is it worth the risk? Do some more reading i guess.

Now talking N/A route, what can you do internally? cams? higher compression? is it possible, is there enough support?

Thanks alot for your help, i will get some photos up for you now.

 

[tweety2300]

Well you already have the better cams, hc pistons, and better intake mani. Do those come with a 4-2-1 header stock?

 

[Ice88]

Well you already have the better cams, hc pistons, and better intake mani. Do those come with a 4-2-1 header stock?

Yes, but not the header your thinking of. The 4-2-1 header that you want only came on the mazdaspeed engines.

You don't really need to open the engine at all to mod it, thinner headgasket ~.21 will bump compression up to about 10.9:1. Under Drive Pulley, Cams (just the exhuast one and youll be more or less set unless you wanna go harder), Light Weight Flywheel, LSD, CAI, Exhaust Manifold (Proper one i.e. Pacemaker, Maxim, Autoexe, Custom), Mid Pipe, Exhaust. And a ECU will make for a really nice build

All without having to rebuild the engine or do anything internally.

 

[Kona051]

Yes, but not the header your thinking of. The 4-2-1 header that you want only came on the mazdaspeed engines.

You don't really need to open the engine at all to mod it, thinner headgasket ~.21 will bump compression up to about 10.9:1. Under Drive Pulley, Cams (just the exhuast one and youll be more or less set unless you wanna go harder), Light Weight Flywheel, LSD, CAI, Exhaust Manifold (Proper one i.e. Pacemaker, Maxim, Autoexe, Custom), Mid Pipe, Exhaust. And a ECU will make for a really nice build

All without having to rebuild the engine or do anything internally.

Thats what i was thinking, something along those lines. Few questions though. I dont mid pulling it apart, wouldnt mind doing a rebuild and just cleaning it out. With the head gasket, do you buy thinner head gaskets? or do you just remove a layer? ive heard of people who have say a 5 layer head gasket and they just peel off 2 layers to increase compression. The exhaust cam, is that the "mazdaspeed" exhaust cam? how does that differ from mine? longer duration or bigger lift? Also where abouts do you get a exhaust manifold from? apart from getting a custom made one? And ecu, do you think a piggy back system will do just fine?

 

[AzteCypher]

Subbin...

 

[Jaleik]

sub

 

[Ice88]

With the head gasket, do you buy thinner head gaskets?

Yes thinner head gaskets. The gasket that I remember that was .21 was rubber coated copper or something interesting. Peeling back layers sounds dodgy, best to get a head gasket made to thickness. Theres a few places in the states that do this

The exhaust cam, is that the "mazdaspeed" exhaust cam? how does that differ from mine? longer duration or bigger lift?

Google it. But essentially its longer overlap, longer duration and more lift. Quite a meaty cam really especially for an essentially factory cam, friend has a mazdaspeed engine. There are of course other cams out there, but in NZ the mazdaspeed cam 'may' be easier to come by then something that was made in the states

Also where abouts do you get a exhaust manifold from? apart from getting a custom made one?

From the places I listed basically. The autoexe headers are no longer made, but the maxim headers are essentially the same thing (slightly different in which pipes merge. i.e. 2 and 4 merge instead of 1 and 3 or some such silliness, lengths etc remain the same). Australian ebay had the pacemake headers for about ~400 posted inside of australia with insurance. There a 4-1 header, if your curious to know more about headers myself and people far far smarter then I have posted alot over the years about header design and combinations. Only thing is dont believe what people say about the OBX being a good header, for you itll make bugger all difference if any at all. The only reason they make a difference is due to the replacement of the pre cat and slightly better pipe widths.

And ecu, do you think a piggy back system will do just fine?

Not really. The only piggyback I think that allows you to advance timing is the Haltech piggy back, otherwise the only thing you can modify really is the fuel maps which will get you a certain distance but no where near what you would get with a proper ECU. Our engines run really rich and love lots of timing, plus adding timing will help you claw back any power lost down low in the rpm band with wilder cams etc. Dont get me wrong if your in a bind then yes a piggy back will work and give you damn good results, but a full EMS will always get you better results.

EDIT: Oh and the autoexe header can be found on yahoo japan auctions for about 500-600 AUD. They are expensive but they are the best header available for our engines that I know about.

EDIT 2: Also no need to rebuild engine unless its shagged man, the benefit of having the fs-ze is that you dont nee to rebuild it.

 

[Kona051]

Awesome, thanks Ice, given me alot to think about.

Going to go look into the camshaft and thinner head gasket and see weather i can find anything on that over her. Also what would you thoughts be on getting a regrind? I dont no much on it, but i could possibly send my exhaust cam shaft, possible intake down to Kelford cams and they could re profile ?

EDIT: Also what is the standard thickness of the head gasket? Just concerned about clearance.

 

[tweety2300]

Unless you want your engine to look like what's in my brothers basement don't use cheap copper gaskets. Get a thin cometic. Also the most power ever made from an na fs motor was 197 whp which had to use titanium internals full stand alone and didn't make any power till 6000 rpms and had to go to 9000~ for peak power. You can turbo your motor as is run low boost and see way more power than that. My brother is runing 10:1 with huge EBay turbo that doesn't spool up till 4500 rpms and made 205 at the wheels on 15 psi.

 

[DarkAngel]

Tweety makes a good point. before you drop the big bucks on going N/A weigh your option on a low boost turbo option. I would try and find out first how much the AWD tranny can handle though. A good precaution would be to source another Transmission just in case.

One good site for info that I have found out to be valuable and useful is here:

http://www.protegefaq.net/

Look in the Engine Info --->3rd Generations --->2.0 ..... section. All the specs of all the 2.0 are there.

 

[Kona051]

Had a look through that website, found out some interesting information on my gear, same as the GTR familia gear box. Quiet funny, a good friend of mine has just brought himself a genuine GTR. So it says i have a G25MX-R which is the same gearbox in the GTR, which would lend me to think it could handle the same amount of power? so i could boost it ? They run around 200 ponies, so i guess that would be a fair assumption, what are you views/thoughts on this?

 

[DarkAngel]

I would assume so but only trial and error will tell you for sure. I know I have read several posts on here about swapping gears from other transmissions but I can't recal which one/s they are which are stronger than our stock ones. I would highly consider swapping in a more robust /stronger LSD if yours is already equiped with one as well or at least have it welded.

 

[Kona051]

I would assume so but only trial and error will tell you for sure. I know I have read several posts on here about swapping gears from other transmissions but I can't recal which one/s they are which are stronger than our stock ones. I would highly consider swapping in a more robust /stronger LSD if yours is already equiped with one as well or at least have it welded.

My gear box is exactly the same, just different ratio gears, so it has the "viscous LSD" in the front, but has the GTX rear diff, so it doesnt have the LSD in the back. But if im looking a 220 wheel hp, i think i will be fine, im not looking to drag any one. Just would like that boost for every day general driving.

 

[Ice88]

Unless you want your engine to look like what's in my brothers basement don't use cheap copper gaskets. Get a thin cometic. Also the most power ever made from an na fs motor was 197 whp which had to use titanium internals full stand alone and didn't make any power till 6000 rpms and had to go to 9000~ for peak power. You can turbo your motor as is run low boost and see way more power than that. My brother is runing 10:1 with huge EBay turbo that doesn't spool up till 4500 rpms and made 205 at the wheels on 15 psi.

Please don't post about stuff you don't know.

I'll respond to the rest when I get home