From "Wild Child" to "Mild Child"

[Rainman]

Let me be clear, I don't care what the reviews say. I'd probably pick the MS3 10 out of 10 times if I had to choose a hot hatch to buy tomorrow, I was just wondering what happened between the outgoing model and this new one that changed the opinions so much.

The motortrend article said that the Speed 3 didn't feel that much faster than the GTI. With a 63 hp advantage, that just can't be true. I'm wondering what Mazda needs to iterate on (short of AWD as that would add weight and cost) to make the next MS3 perfect.

Can't just take "feel" into account. My a$$ tells me that my new STi is NOT significantly faster than the MS6 it replaced. However, the stats don't lie. For some reason the STi seems to just do the job with much less excitement and abruptness of power delivery than the MS6. In the same fashion I expect that the new MS3 probably does the job with much less excitement than the previous model MS3.

Don't know any of this for fact, but that is my $0.02.

R

 

[kwsmithphoto]

VW actually changed the whole body on the GTI too, they only kept the roof from the previous gen. Looks wise, it wasn't a radical change....but why change a good thing?

And as for reliability, MS3's end up visiting the dealer too.

Are you sure? I read in C/D that only the front and rear ends were changed, and it looks that way to me.

The Westside of LA is VWAG country, so I know a lot of people with VW's and Audi's. And without exception, they inevitably start having serious problems after 2-4 years. My wife had an A4 that was the most unreliable car I've ever had to deal with. We know the current owner (my wife -gave- the car to her best friend), and it continues to fail on a constant basis. Another friend had a newer A4 Quattro which spent an enormous amount of time in shop. Loved it when he leased it, loved it when the lease was up, hated it for 2 out of the 4 years he drove it. Major driveline and electrical issues, plus the engine sludged up so bad it failed. I could go on, but you get my point.

Also, I know a former dealer tech who opened his own shop. Originally it was a VW and Audi shop, but he dropped VW because the workload was too high. He kept Audi because the margins are higher, and he still has more work than they can handle.

Granted, my MS3 could start coming unglued in a few years too, but initial problems after 1 year are encouraging: the gas cap has gotten a little bit fiddly. That's it.

 

[ottawaP5]

Are you sure? I read in C/D that only the front and rear ends were changed, and it looks that way to me.

The Westside of LA is VWAG country, so I know a lot of people with VW's and Audi's. And without exception, they inevitably start having serious problems after 2-4 years. My wife had an A4 that was the most unreliable car I've ever had to deal with. We know the current owner (my wife -gave- the car to her best friend), and it continues to fail on a constant basis. Another friend had a newer A4 Quattro which spent an enormous amount of time in shop. Loved it when he leased it, loved it when the lease was up, hated it for 2 out of the 4 years he drove it. Major driveline and electrical issues, plus the engine sludged up so bad it failed. I could go on, but you get my point.

Also, I know a former dealer tech who opened his own shop. Originally it was a VW and Audi shop, but he dropped VW because the workload was too high. He kept Audi because the margins are higher, and he still has more work than they can handle.

Granted, my MS3 could start coming unglued in a few years too, but initial problems after 1 year are encouraging: the gas cap has gotten a little bit fiddly. That's it.

I'm sure...I've read it and seen a VW event that go into detail about the car. The fenders, doors, etc are all different. The changes are subtle though. It's the underpinnings of the car that remained the same. They did lower the ride height which is good.

I believe you that VW and Audis have their problems, but Mazda's do as well. Mine started rusting out after 2 years. I had to get the whole hood repainted (under warranty). I know this doesn't compare to VW electrical problems though

 

[Nismothecat]

new gti-r > everything else. awd, tonnes of power, to go along with those looks and refinement.

Pulsar GTI-R??? i would take one of those in a heartbeat.

 

[Design]

If I were in the market for a new car right now, it would be a close call between the GTI and 2010 MS3. I am put off by the hood scoop, lack of HIDs/LEDs/Leather, reduced support from the front seats, and revised interior trim. But I do enjoy the moderate improvements to handling, particularly the dampening over uneven surfaces. Power is important, but not at the sacrifice of the above mentioned items.

It is a GREAT car, but compared to the GTI it doesn't feel as balanced as the previous version. IMO, it's a much tougher choice now than it was when I purchased my 09 in January.

 

[bjjer]

Are you sure? I read in C/D that only the front and rear ends were changed, and it looks that way to me.

The Westside of LA is VWAG country, so I know a lot of people with VW's and Audi's. And without exception, they inevitably start having serious problems after 2-4 years. My wife had an A4 that was the most unreliable car I've ever had to deal with. We know the current owner (my wife -gave- the car to her best friend), and it continues to fail on a constant basis. Another friend had a newer A4 Quattro which spent an enormous amount of time in shop. Loved it when he leased it, loved it when the lease was up, hated it for 2 out of the 4 years he drove it. Major driveline and electrical issues, plus the engine sludged up so bad it failed. I could go on, but you get my point.

Also, I know a former dealer tech who opened his own shop. Originally it was a VW and Audi shop, but he dropped VW because the workload was too high. He kept Audi because the margins are higher, and he still has more work than they can handle.

Granted, my MS3 could start coming unglued in a few years too, but initial problems after 1 year are encouraging: the gas cap has gotten a little bit fiddly. That's it.

I have a couple of buddies who drive VW's and the electric problems on those things are horrible. My MS3 is a rattle trap but has always started in the morning faithfully for the little over 2 years I have owned it. But I do like the looks of the VW better though.

 

[08cosmic3]

I'm getting a set of Koni FSD's for my car and it's said that the car handles the bumps much better with them.

I paid $21,000 for my car. How much does the new GTI cost?

 

[dan1101]

The 2010 MS3 is fairly ugly (IMO) and other cars are catching up performance-wise. It's still a great car and in a different performance category than a regular MZ3.

GTI? Not for me, I'll take raw power rather then nice fit and finish and bad expensive electrical problems when the car starts getting old.

 

[8.5MS3]

get the GTI, with a reflash, DP, and some sway bars and coilovers ( all around 2500 - 3500 bucks ) The GTI is FAR the better car... fast enough, handles just as well at that point, and interior is probably the best looking out there for under 30K ( esp. if you add the navi )

ok I just priced up a GTI with the same equipment I got in my MS3 (gt w/nav, & a few other accessories) MSRP - 31,900 add 3k for mods im at 35k

Picked up my 08.5 MS3 GT for 25 OTD

what can i do with an extra 15k poured into my MS3.........

Forged engine 6k
Big turbo w/tuning 2k
Fully bolted & PnP - 5k
Coilovers w/swaybars - 2k

400whp and a rediculous suspension. Yea ill take the MS3 over the totally overpriced GTI

 

[Nismothecat]

ok I just priced up a GTI with the same equipment I got in my MS3 (gt w/nav, & a few other accessories) MSRP - 31,900 add 3k for mods im at 35k

Picked up my 08.5 MS3 GT for 25 OTD

what can i do with an extra 15k poured into my MS3.........

Forged engine 6k
Big turbo w/tuning 2k
Fully bolted & PnP - 5k
Coilovers w/swaybars - 2k

400whp and a rediculous suspension. Yea ill take the MS3 over the totally overpriced GTI

your comparing your negotiated deal vs MSRP. something doesnt sound right to me.

 

[8.5MS3]

your comparing your negotiated deal vs MSRP. something doesnt sound right to me.

either way fully loaded msrp is less than 26 add TT&R ur at 28, gti will be at 35

 

[coololddude]

They are both great hatches. You can not go wrong getting either car. You would just go less wrong getting the MS3!! Yuk, Yuk,!!! <<<Same as LOL.

 

[MAZDA_SPEED]

They are both great hatches. You can not go wrong getting either car. You would just go less wrong getting the MS3!! Yuk, Yuk,!!! <<<Same as LOL.

I would sacrifice power for style any day.

 

[Donas64]

I would sacrifice power for style any day.

Style is subjective.

Power is much less so.

 

[squidmotion]

style IS subjective... as everyone knows i don't care for the looks of the new speed3. but there aren't many out there that i do like....


the ragmags all whine about the same s***...bla bla bla torque steer....bla bla bla refinement.... bla bla bla shifter.... what the hell ever. it all comes down to this...

WHAT DO YOU WANT? not some dipshit salesman, not some know it all magazine hack, not your brother-in-law (who cares what that asshole thinks?) this is one time that it is for sure all about YOU... those other chumps aren't making the payments, are they?

i've been VERY happy with my mostly stock 2008.5 (i call it an 09).... 23k for a car that will almost (yeah, i said almost) run with the fastest thing subaru has? for a lot less money. i promise, an sti wouldn't make me any happier on the trip out to mom and dad's. except in the rain. this thing seats a tall person well, hauls the troops when needed, gets decent mileage, and blows the doors off about anything, if you know how to drive it.

i could complain about the ride and noisy exhaust, but that actually adds to the fun.

it's all about what you feel like.... you want my opinion?

you want to brag about owning a german car that sees the shop frequently, like ugly wheels, and don't mind a guy in an MS3 with a CAI murdering you, then get the VW. the girls probably won't care..... personally, i'll wait till i can afford a carrera porsche.

if you want to be stealthy (even the new speeds look like the regular 3... 'cept for that damn hood scoop), listen to sweet sounding exhaust, wonder what to do with all the money you saved (CAI kit), then buy the speed.





think bang-for-buck and the mazda wins hands down.

 

[kwsmithphoto]

Ya, you guys are right, style is subjective.

And, subjectively speaking, the "new" MS3 (and regular3) still looks like ass.

They even applied the happy new face to the 2010 CX-7, which was previously the best looking crossover in it's class, IMO.

Oh well. They're a small company with long redesign cycles, so I think we're in for a slew of ugly Mazda's for a few years. Yes, I know about the "Nagare" concept for future styling direction and I like it, but it came after the current new models were set in stone, so I I'm confident they'll improve in a few years. Most of their cars are due for major platform changes, so know hope.

But the whole clown face ain't doing it for me, and outside of these Mazda sites, I don't know anyone who likes them at all. And mark my words, it will drive up segment shares for VW. And even Ford, when the new Focus hits the road - which will be based on the Euro version.

Then again, Americans are known for liking ugly cars, so who knows. The wretched looking new version of the previously good looking Fusion is selling like crazy, particularly the hybrid. But I think that has more to do with the merits of the car than the styling.

So I could be wrong, and the clown car 3's might sell very well. Meanwhile, I am sooooooo happy I bought a late production run 2009 MS3, I just love the little bastard, inside and out. The styling is aging very gracefully. Heck, even some old Protoge's still look great. Good style never looks bad over time.

 

[Donas64]

Ya, you guys are right, style is subjective.

And, subjectively speaking, the "new" MS3 (and regular3) still looks like ass.

They even applied the happy new face to the 2010 CX-7, which was previously the best looking crossover in it's class, IMO.

Oh well. They're a small company with long redesign cycles, so I think we're in for a slew of ugly Mazda's for a few years. Yes, I know about the "Nagare" concept for future styling direction and I like it, but it came after the current new models were set in stone, so I I'm confident they'll improve in a few years. Most of their cars are due for major platform changes, so know hope.

But the whole clown face ain't doing it for me, and outside of these Mazda sites, I don't know anyone who likes them at all. And mark my words, it will drive up segment shares for VW. And even Ford, when the new Focus hits the road - which will be based on the Euro version.

Then again, Americans are known for liking ugly cars, so who knows. The wretched looking new version of the previously good looking Fusion is selling like crazy, particularly the hybrid. But I think that has more to do with the merits of the car than the styling.

So I could be wrong, and the clown car 3's might sell very well. Meanwhile, I am sooooooo happy I bought a late production run 2009 MS3, I just love the little bastard, inside and out. The styling is aging very gracefully. Heck, even some old Protoge's still look great. Good style never looks bad over time.

as a P5 owner I totally agree. It looks a little dated but people are surprised when I tell them it's an 02 and not an 05 or 06.

 

[ottawaP5]

ok I just priced up a GTI with the same equipment I got in my MS3 (gt w/nav, & a few other accessories) MSRP - 31,900 add 3k for mods im at 35k

Picked up my 08.5 MS3 GT for 25 OTD

what can i do with an extra 15k poured into my MS3.........

Forged engine 6k
Big turbo w/tuning 2k
Fully bolted & PnP - 5k
Coilovers w/swaybars - 2k

400whp and a rediculous suspension. Yea ill take the MS3 over the totally overpriced GTI

Maybe it's a different story in the US, but in Canada they cost the same. I ordered mine fully loaded with options that are not even available on the MS3, and it ended up costing 1K more than the MS3.

Only thing is that you may be able to get more of a rebate on the MS3 though.

 

[MAZDA_SPEED]

Maybe it's a different story in the US, but in Canada they cost the same. I ordered mine fully loaded with options that are not even available on the MS3, and it ended up costing 1K more than the MS3.

Only thing is that you may be able to get more of a rebate on the MS3 though.

uhm. I looked it up. Its a few thousand more then a MS3. not bad tho.

 

[Fazzster2]

First, I am very happy I got the last of the 1st generation MS3 before the ugly redesign. Let's face it, as good as the 2010 MS3 drives, you still have to look at it everyday. Personally, the 1st generation is just better looking inside an out.....As far as the GTI and most German cars, they just have this solid feel that can't be replicated. But in the real world, I will always choose the Japanese car for its reliability. Frankly, I don't have the time nor the money to keep up with repairs on a German car. I learned my lesson in an Audi TT. Amazing build quality but did not appreciate it being flat bedded out of my driveway because of failed coil packs not t mention the myriad of silly electrical problems. As much as admire the GTI, I will continue to admire it from afar until time and money is on my side.