From "Wild Child" to "Mild Child"

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Donas64

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2002 MP5
Okay let me start this off by saying I LOVE the MS3. I really would like one for my next car after I retire the protege5. But it seems to me as though after bursting on the scene as the new kid on the block and trouncing it's most direct rival the GTI in most reviews, the new for 2010 MS3 is now getting beat down in just about every review I'm reading. Just read the Motortrend COTY article where the actually say the MZ3 2.5 might be a better more balanced vehicle than the speed!

Their 2010 MS3 complaints are the torque steer, sloppy shifter, questionable styling, questionable interior choices, and that it does not feel as fast as it should for the specs. I've read 4 auto mags this month and they all seem down on the revised MS3. What happened?

Don't get me wrong, given the choice between the GTI and the MS3, I'm sure I'd take the MS3 every time but is there something I'm missing here? Has anyone owned or driven both first gen and revised MS3? Are these car journalists on to something or are they blowing smoke? Is the MS3 a touch of refinement away from being perfect?
 
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Have not had the opportunity to test drive the 2010's but I have sampled an 08 with a CAI installed and I thought it was amazing.

I'm just wondering what it is about the 2010 MS3 that has these journalists sour on it. I mean it's changed but the basics are the same. It just seems to have fallen out of favor so fast while the GTI is getting rave reviews.

I'm looking for owner opinions or the opinions of anyone who has driven one compared to a GTI.
 
The 2010 speed 3 is like its previous model with slight improvements on suspension, braking, and better gearing. The new makeover is hit or miss. Who cares what a review says about looks. Its your opinion that matters.

I read the motortrend reviews and they "bash" the speed 3 on 2 features. The torque steer and the refinements. That and its similarity to the previous model. Frankly why would you change a car that has won so many awards for best in class. VW had the pressure to make a change with the GTI which they did.

Frankly I don't understand the torquesteer issue at all. Its a small powerful FWD car with high torque. It happens. Maybe they would like it more if mazda dropped the power and made it as slow as the GTI. . .

In the performance aspect the speed 3 is the much better car. When it comes to looks / refinements the GTI has it beat. Thats obvious. Comes down to personal preference. I read about 3 different speed 3 / gti motortrend articles and they all said the same crap. If you wan't speed . . . get the zoom zoom.

If you wan't refinement / looks . . . get the VW. Both are nice cars.
 
Let me be clear, I don't care what the reviews say. I'd probably pick the MS3 10 out of 10 times if I had to choose a hot hatch to buy tomorrow, I was just wondering what happened between the outgoing model and this new one that changed the opinions so much.

The motortrend article said that the Speed 3 didn't feel that much faster than the GTI. With a 63 hp advantage, that just can't be true. I'm wondering what Mazda needs to iterate on (short of AWD as that would add weight and cost) to make the next MS3 perfect.
 
Look at the spec sheets. The speed 3 is significantly faster than the GTI in the 0-60 / 1/4 mile. Do you mind posting the article your looking at ?

You have to realize that these articles are written by people like you and me. The only performance negative that I saw about the speed 3 in the three articles I read was the torque steer which is understandable. Motortrend didn't like the speed 3 because it wasn't "new." Its pretty much the same car as the older model. They also didn't like the looks / refinements. I agree with them. I think the GTI looks better inside and out.
 
the GTI won everything because of its day to day use and ease(AKA lack of power) the Car and Driver review gave it to the GTi because of the ease of use for everyday, but the power/handling was dominated by the mazda, so if you want a boring easy to use every day beater w/ less P, ten go w/ the GTi if you want to have a fun car w/ a bit of a harsh ride, the Speed3 is were it is at. I thought the C&D copo was stupid because all they cared about was comfort. Torque steer is normal in a FWD car w/ that amount of power
 
all i know is that the 2007-2008 MS3 got top 10 best COTY im not sure but i think it also stole 2009, and the other cars on the list were at least 15-20K more
 
Donas64 said:
Don't get me wrong, given the choice between the GTI and the MS3, I'm sure I'd take the MS3 every time but is there something I'm missing here?
Click to expand...

You can't measure driving enjoyment only by HP, 0-60, and 1/4 mile.
There is a balance between pure performance and the feel of refinement (which the MS3 sorely lacks).
 
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IMO MK6 GTi> 2nd Gen MS3. The ms3 has power...but thats it...power isn't everything..and if power is what you want then clicky the link.. The GTi has it all expect power. Thanks to superchips, you have it a complete package..

HERE VW under tuned the mk6...=/
 
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new gti-r > everything else. awd, tonnes of power, to go along with those looks and refinement.
 
I read the motortrend reviews and they "bash" the speed 3 on 2 features. The torque steer and the refinements. That and its similarity to the previous model. Frankly why would you change a car that has won so many awards for best in class. VW had the pressure to make a change with the GTI which they did.

Frankly I don't understand the torquesteer issue at all. Its a small powerful FWD car with high torque. It happens. Maybe they would like it more if mazda dropped the power and made it as slow as the GTI. . .
Click to expand...

Well the MS3 does drop power in the low gears to combat torque steer, but it doesn't work very well. What it really needs is the Revo Knuckle front end of the euro Focus RS, but I guess that ain't gonna happen any time soon. AWD just adds more weight, complexity, and expensive parts to break. I'd rather have RWD than the other two alternatives.

And BTW, at least Mazda put a whole new body on the 2010, while VW simply changed the endcaps. Much to their credit, the GTI looks much better now, while the "new" MS3 looks like a frat boy's blow up doll.

Plus, I like my car to actually start in the morning, and not need multiple visits to the dealer to get warranty work done. VW's aren't exactly known for their reliability.
 
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Donas64 said:
Have not had the opportunity to test drive the 2010's but I have sampled an 08 with a CAI installed and I thought it was amazing.

I'm just wondering what it is about the 2010 MS3 that has these journalists sour on it. I mean it's changed but the basics are the same. It just seems to have fallen out of favor so fast while the GTI is getting rave reviews.

I'm looking for owner opinions or the opinions of anyone who has driven one compared to a GTI.
Click to expand...

Well I drive a first gen MS3, and have recently test drove the new GTI. I actually liked it so much that I ordered one.

The GTI soaks up bumps so much better, yet handles better than my car. Power is not that bad actually, there is not much difference between 0-60 on both cars since the MS3 can't get grip, while the GTI can. The GTI just feels more planted, while the MS3 hops all over the road when it gets bumpy.

Interior wise, the GTI blows the MS3 out of the water. There's no competition there. The seats are way better, the touch screen is so nice to use. It just feels expensive.

Like someone said, power isn't everything. I find the GTI is just more fun to drive even though it doesn't match the MS3's power. But that is just my opinion...best thing is go test drive both cars.
 
kwsmithphoto said:
Well the MS3 does drop power in the low gears to combat torque steer, but it doesn't work very well. What it really needs is the Revo Knuckle front end of the euro Focus RS, but I guess that ain't gonna happen any time soon. AWD just adds more weight, complexity, and expensive parts to break. I'd rather have RWD than the other two alternatives.

And BTW, at least Mazda put a whole new body on the 2010, while VW simply changed the endcaps. Much to their credit, the GTI looks much better now, while the "new" MS3 looks like a frat boy's blow up doll.

Plus, I like my car to actually start in the morning, and not need multiple visits to the dealer to get warranty work done. VW's aren't exactly known for their reliability.
Click to expand...

VW actually changed the whole body on the GTI too, they only kept the roof from the previous gen. Looks wise, it wasn't a radical change....but why change a good thing?

And as for reliability, MS3's end up visiting the dealer too.
 
get the GTI, with a reflash, DP, and some sway bars and coilovers ( all around 2500 - 3500 bucks ) The GTI is FAR the better car... fast enough, handles just as well at that point, and interior is probably the best looking out there for under 30K ( esp. if you add the navi )
 
I don't understand why you all like the interior of the GTI more, if compared to the gen1 MS3 that is. I have a gen1 MS3 and my mom has a GTI, and I'd have to say I like my interior a hell of a lot more than I like hers. Granted they both have great interiors, but I LOVE my seats (GT), way more than I like hers.

The only thing I can think of that the GTI has over my MS3 is the fact that there aren't squeaks and the occasional rattle from the seams of the dash like in the MS3.
 
coyfish said:
Look at the spec sheets. The speed 3 is significantly faster than the GTI in the 0-60 / 1/4 mile. Do you mind posting the article your looking at ?

You have to realize that these articles are written by people like you and me. The only performance negative that I saw about the speed 3 in the three articles I read was the torque steer which is understandable. Motortrend didn't like the speed 3 because it wasn't "new." Its pretty much the same car as the older model. They also didn't like the looks / refinements. I agree with them. I think the GTI looks better inside and out.
Click to expand...

It's the January 2010 issue of motortrend. Their Car of the Year issue. Just read the Mazda 3 article. But if you read Road & Track and Car and Driver, they seem to have similar complaints.

I think mazda needs to rethink the styling of the next MS3 a little though. I did agree that it didn't have a coherent design theme.
 
I would not own a 2010 MS3 no matter what the reviews say I hate the thing, it looks horrible, and when I sat in one the the stealership I hated the interior. honestly I want to get rid of my 08.5, but I don't hate it... that much
 
I hate the looks of the second gen 3. I also hate the underpowered, plaid interiored GTI. Sure, chip it and keep your warranty, not. I'll stick with mine.
 
Actually that's a commen misconception.. SOME VW dealerships are doing the actual "chipping" right there at the dealership.. and they even have the APR GTI's out now in limited quantity, where they come chipped
 
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