Forums and the young

[Bravnik]

I know the car is fast but my first car was a corolla GTS and it would hit 120-130......It will make you just as dead as the M5 would have. Yea its sad what happened but this kid was irresponsible and took many lives with his bad decisions. Shoot I know a 18 year old that could afford his own M5 because of a internet venture. He owns his own house and lives a dream. He is responsible and a very smart kid. If he did this, would we still be pointing fingers at the parents for being irresponsible. I would hope not! It was a bad decision on the kids part, not the parents! Did this kid have a restricted license that says "cannot drive a car over 100 hp" Stop pointing the fingers at the parents and start pointing them at the kid who made the wrong decision.

I made the quote above and I will make it again here. The stupidity and irresponsibility started with the Parent and ended with the KID. Accept reality. Had the parents not allowed him to drive/own that car, he and his buddies would be alive today. Every action has a reaction as that is just the way life works. The parents allowed him to drive the car and that decision ended in the death of 5 people.......The Parents are responsible just as much as he is.

 

[CantCMe]

Parents need to spend time with their children...then they will find out if they're responsible or not. If they do that, and have common sense, more likely than not they're not gonna give an 18 year old keys to a damn M5...I mean, I feel for them for losing a child (plus all of the other angry parents wanting to kill them) but gee whiz when will enuf be enuf?

 

[JamJam]

I made the quote above and I will make it again here. The stupidity and irresponsibility started with the Parent and ended with the KID. Accept reality. Had the parents not allowed him to drive/own that car, he and his buddies would be alive today. Every action has a reaction as that is just the way life works. The parents allowed him to drive the car and that decision ended in the death of 5 people.......The Parents are responsible just as much as he is.

I agree the parents have some fault in this story, but the 18 year old could have done the same thing in a corolla so would we still be talking about this. It was the ADULTS(18 year old) decision to drive like a idiot! Dont get me wrong I would never have let the 18 year old use the car, not because hes a 18 year old because the car is worth so much money.

Almost like punishing the gun industry instead of the murder who used the gun.

 

[Moonpie.Express]

I want to apologize. I just remembered the post from a few days ago. The last thing I wanted to do here was to stir up the same s***.

People (like myself) have some very strong feelings about this topic. I just thought about the Forum and what is sometimes said to some of these kids. I in no way think the forum, or anyone that posts, is responsible for some of these results.
It is so easy today to see the news, and every bad thing that happens, from across the country. I, like many, never had this kind of info growing up. Everything was local.

I just want the younger members of this forum to take heed and realize that life has many paths. A little caution everyonce in awhile is not a bad thing. When folks on this board give there opinion, it is not a bad idea to listen. More times than not, they have come by this knowledge due to experience.

Be careful out there and learn to chose your battles well.

 

[Sacrilicious]

yes, the kid could have done this in a toyota corolla...he could have done it in a geo metro!!! ...but the point of the matter is that in a fast car, you can get up to speed MUCH faster. all things equal, doing stupid things at 25mph is a lot "safer" than doing stupid things at 50mph. if kids are going to do stupid things in whatever car they drive, then at LEAST restrict them from getting up to 120mph in just 1/4 mile!

regardless, this is a terrible tragedy for everyone involved, but i bet you any money all those parents are wishing like crazy that the car was a freakin 4 banger accord, because their chances of walking away from a crash created by the accord are MUCH higher than a crash they created with that M5...

 

[CantCMe]

I would just love to know who's idea (and why) it was to give the kid the keys...seriously.

 

[Sacrilicious]

I want to apologize. I just remembered the post from a few days ago. The last thing I wanted to do here was to stir up the same s***.

People (like myself) have some very strong feelings about this topic. I just thought about the Forum and what is sometimes said to some of these kids. I in no way think the forum, or anyone that posts, is responsible for some of these results.
It is so easy today to see the news, and every bad thing that happens, from across the country. I, like many, never had this kind of info growing up. Everything was local.

I just want the younger members of this forum to take heed and realize that life has many paths. A little caution everyonce in awhile is not a bad thing. When folks on this board give there opinion, it is not a bad idea to listen. More times than not, they have come by this knowledge due to experience.

Be careful out there and learn to chose your battles well.

don't worry about it, man...the moral of the story is definitely: "keep safe!" i don't care how responsible you think you are, but if not just for yourself, keep safe for your parents, your friends, your fellow drivers on the road, because as fun as cars are, doing stupid things in them get people killed. awareness is the only weapon we really have against this, so let's all keep safe and avoid doing stupid things in our zoom zooms!

 

[happy and angry]

This is just another shining example of irresponsable parents. End of story.

We had this wonderful discussion just the other day. Kids saying they were responsible enough to drive and that the parents were not to blame.

Please note, this kid said the EXACT same things on the 25th and less than 12 hours later he was Dead. Kids + Fast Cars do not mix. Parents that buy their kids a fast car are ignorant and irresponsable and should blame nobody but themselves when their kid makes the news killing themselves or others.

In the case of the M5 and the case of the MS3 the other day, the stupidity started with the PARENTS and ended with the Kids. I guess the apple truely does not fall far from the tree.

I just hope those kids on this forum and others that own a MS3 or faster car learn something. I will not hold my breath......

While I agree that young drivers have no place behind the wheel of a fast car, I still can't wrap my head around you blaming the parents. At what point do you, and the rest of society, draw the line on personal responsibility? The age of majority doesn't count? What if he'd done it in a rental car his parents had co-signed? Does he start being responsible for his actions when he's 21? 25? When he buys his own car? When he moves out? Where do you draw the line?

I think giving kids a powerful car is just too big a temptation for most young drivers to handle, but that doesn't mean people that disagree with me are at fault for the illegal or stupid choices their children make, especially not when those kids are 18.

On top of that, the article doesn't go in to a lot of important details about the situation. Did he have permission to take the car or did he swipe the keys and go for a joyride? Was he an otherwise upstanding young man who normally behaved in a way that led his parents to trust him (perhaps more than they should)? etc etc etc. The list goes on.

I really think the parents are blaming themselves quite enough for all of us, regardless of the how or why this happened.

 

[ProtoType5]

Well, if I owned a 500 horsepower car and let a friend borrow it and he subsequently wrecked it and killed others in the process, I would assume that partial responsibility would rest on my shoulders...I would imagine my insurance company would also believe this as well...

Therefore, the parents do hold partial responsiblity for the accident, but they are not to BLAME for the accident...There is a enormous difference...especially in the legal aspect of this case..

 

[shane02pro5]

I guess it could have been worse if they were on the freeway!

That is so horrible! Every parents worst nightmare!!!

 

[Bravnik]

I agree the parents have some fault in this story, but the 18 year old could have done the same thing in a corolla so would we still be talking about this. It was the ADULTS(18 year old) decision to drive like a idiot! Dont get me wrong I would never have let the 18 year old use the car, not because hes a 18 year old because the car is worth so much money.

Almost like punishing the gun industry instead of the murder who used the gun.

Nope - I would never hold the Gun Industry responsible. However, you can bet your life that the law will hold the parents responsible if they go purchase a handgun for their 16year old and he goes to school with it and kills half his class.

The old "He could have done the same thing in a Corolla" does not fly ether. The reason is simple. I doubt very seriously anyone in a Corolla ever got the bug to say "Hey, lets drive down to the old airport and see what this baby can really do!!!". Nope, somehow I doubt that has ever come up in a Corolla.

You see, the MS3, M5 or any other sports car is what I like to call a Temptation. When you first feel the power you're a little scared. Then after sometime when you get use to the car the Temptaion hits to see what it can really do. As an adult in my 40's I STILL get tempted by fast cars. However, the differance is that I don't fall for it. I also don't have friend going "Hey man, this car is fast lets see what she can do" and if I did and I said "Nah it's too dangerous here" the LAST thing I would here at my age is "Ah man Don't be a Pussy!"

There are a thousand temptations and instances of peer pressure every day as a teenager/young adult. As you get older and mature, those temptations and peer pressure subside.

Lord knows I feel into the trap of temptation and peer pressure when I was younger. To be honest the ONLY reason why I'm typing this today is because I was LUCKY. Was I a good kid and stayed out of trouble? Yep, no trouble with the law, no accidents and no drug/alcohol issues. However, I did more than my share of drugs, had more run-ins with the law than I care to think about and I did things in my Mom's F150 at 16 that would make your head spin. I WAS LUCKY.

Had I drove a 13 second car at 16-18 would I be here today? Maybe. If I was Lucky. However, I didn't and it was because my parents would NEVER let me have one. Not because they couldn't afford one, as they could, but because they were responsible parents. Did I understand this when I was 16-18? Hell No! But I sure as hell do now.

 

[ProtoType5]

Got to give the poor kid the credit that he was responsible enough to go to a private airstrip to push the limits...

If we're talking about the gun industry...it there really any need to manufacture cars that are this amazingly over-powered??? Even those experienced adult drivers on the M5 forums talk like this beast is hard to handle....So we can blame the car industry and the gun industry...They do manufacture leading causes of death...

 

[JamJam]

While I agree that young drivers have no place behind the wheel of a fast car, I still can't wrap my head around you blaming the parents. At what point do you, and the rest of society, draw the line on personal responsibility? The age of majority doesn't count? What if he'd done it in a rental car his parents had co-signed? Does he start being responsible for his actions when he's 21? 25? When he buys his own car? When he moves out? Where do you draw the line?

I think giving kids a powerful car is just too big a temptation for most young drivers to handle, but that doesn't mean people that disagree with me are at fault for the illegal or stupid choices their children make, especially not when those kids are 18.

On top of that, the article doesn't go in to a lot of important details about the situation. Did he have permission to take the car or did he swipe the keys and go for a joyride? Was he an otherwise upstanding young man who normally behaved in a way that led his parents to trust him (perhaps more than they should)? etc etc etc. The list goes on.

I really think the parents are blaming themselves quite enough for all of us, regardless of the how or why this happened.

I served in the military with MANY 18 year old adults. They are responsible for carrying assault weapons and long range sniper rifles and are very capable of taking someones life and the USA gives them the right to do this. Maybe this is why I feel so opinionated about this story. I would trust many of them 18 year old ADULTS more so than some of the 25 year old SGT's I worked with. I have TopSecret clearence and when my paper work was going through the decision to get it had nothing to do with age. This 18 Year old is a ADULT and has the ability to make decisions on his own. If he murdered someone he would be tried as an adult and should be.


THE 18 YEAR old was a ADULT!!!!

 

[Bravnik]

While I agree that young drivers have no place behind the wheel of a fast car, I still can't wrap my head around you blaming the parents. At what point do you, and the rest of society, draw the line on personal responsibility? The age of majority doesn't count? What if he'd done it in a rental car his parents had co-signed? Does he start being responsible for his actions when he's 21? 25? When he buys his own car? When he moves out? Where do you draw the line?

I think giving kids a powerful car is just too big a temptation for most young drivers to handle, but that doesn't mean people that disagree with me are at fault for the illegal or stupid choices their children make, especially not when those kids are 18.

On top of that, the article doesn't go in to a lot of important details about the situation. Did he have permission to take the car or did he swipe the keys and go for a joyride? Was he an otherwise upstanding young man who normally behaved in a way that led his parents to trust him (perhaps more than they should)? etc etc etc. The list goes on.

I really think the parents are blaming themselves quite enough for all of us, regardless of the how or why this happened.

Its really simple man. Personal responsibility starts when you do something yourself. That was not the case here. He was given the keys to the car by one/both of his parents. When he said "Mon/Dad, can I have the keys to the M5 so I can go out with my friends tonight" it was his parent/s turn to play their part in this dance. At this point they hold responsibility for what happens.

Its the same thing if the kid walks up to dad and says "Dad, can I borrow the pistol tonight. There's a kid at school that picks on me and I need it for protection". No different in my mind. Giving him the gun didn't mean he was going to use it now did it?

So again. When your actions alone cause something then you're totally 100% responsible. When someone else's actions contribute to you doing something wrong, then they are to blame as well.

 

[happy and angry]

The old "He could have done the same thing in a Corolla" does not fly ether. The reason is simple. I doubt very seriously anyone in a Corolla ever got the bug to say "Hey, lets drive down to the old airport and see what this baby can really do!!!".

Man, everyone I've ever known has said this about whatever beater car they had. Buddy of mine was happy the day he found out his beater Geo Metro could top 100mph with a tail wind, and at 100 mph, you're still just as dead if you screw up.

 

[happy and angry]

Its really simple man. Personal responsibility starts when you do something yourself.

... like step on the gas pedal?

Its the same thing if the kid walks up to dad and says "Dad, can I borrow the pistol tonight. There's a kid at school that picks on me and I need it for protection". No different in my mind. Giving him the gun didn't mean he was going to use it now did it?

This is sort of a dumb comparison. A car isn't a gun. It's not a weapon, and it's not designed to kill. Extend your analogy further - make an equivalent gun argument for "Dad can I borrow the M5" versus "Dad can I borrow the Corolla." Gonna call the Corolla an Airsoft pistol or something?

When your actions alone cause something then you're totally 100% responsible. When someone else's actions contribute to you doing something wrong, then they are to blame as well.

I'm looking forward to a society that extends responsibility for murder to the mother that "contributed to" the actions of their children by giving birth to them.

The parents aren't responsible or to blame for the actions of their adult child.

 

[Bravnik]

I served in the military with MANY 18 year old adults. They are responsible for carrying assault weapons and long range sniper rifles and are very capable of taking someones life and the USA gives them the right to do this. Maybe this is why I feel so opinionated about this story. I would trust many of them 18 year old ADULTS more so than some of the 25 year old SGT's I worked with. I have TopSecret clearence and when my paper work was going through the decision to get it had nothing to do with age. This 18 Year old is a ADULT and has the ability to make decisions on his own. If he murdered someone he would be tried as an adult and should be.


THE 18 YEAR old was a ADULT!!!!

9years in the Military. TS Clerance for most of it. When you open that safe and the 2nd witness is there and says "Hey man. Lemme copy this real quick" if you go sure NP, your ass will fry just like his in the Court Martial.

It's the same thing. The parents who were the decision makers on if he got the car or not are responsible for his actions just as much as he is. They had the same choice....yes or no....they chose yes.

 

[wolverine_man]

Well, if I owned a 500 horsepower car and let a friend borrow it and he subsequently wrecked it and killed others in the process, I would assume that partial responsibility would rest on my shoulders...I would imagine my insurance company would also believe this as well...

Therefore, the parents do hold partial responsiblity for the accident, but they are not to BLAME for the accident...There is a enormous difference...especially in the legal aspect of this case..

This is a very good point. Some states have automobile lending statues, which make the owner (lender) of the vehicle responsible for the actions of the driver (borrower), regardless of whether the owner was in the car at the time. Simple rule of thumb, NEVER lend your car to anyone.

 

[happy and angry]

This is a very good point. Some states have automobile lending statues, which make the owner (lender) of the vehicle responsible for the actions of the driver (borrower)

For the purposes of insurance, not actual legal responsibility. Someone causes an accident in your car and leads to people being killed, your insurance pays out, but the driver is legally responsible.

AND, that sort of law is in place to help ensure that in the case of the driver not having their own insurance, someone can still cover the accident. Not to place "blame" on the person who lent the car to someone else.

 

[BHOUST528]

this is a sad story five young men lost there lives...4 of which lost there lives for someones immaturrity...he was proly just wanting to show friends the balls this car had and in this case it got the best of all of them... dont condone driving a car like that with passengers in the car at all...if you want to drive balls to the wall by yourself thats one thing you risk your life...my thoughts and prayers go out to all the parents...but i do agree with everyones post on its the parents fault you dont give an 16-18yr boy imo a 500+ hp car its sinceless....he would of been fine with a ms3...no...same thing could have happend in any case but you need to explain to your kids dont drive like an ass take it to the track...be safe and mind surroudings....