FMU, Piggyback, or EMS...dilemma

[Nasa_Racers]

I'm researching what kinda of ems system to get for a t3 turbonetics intercooled setup that is being custom built for my pr5...it'll be set at 6psi then up to 8psi which i've been told is very safe...eventually we want to reach 12psi with a tuned ems system (to be purchased later)...i did a search of some of my questions but got mixed answers (i was referred to this site for its expertise in this area)

no mods just Stock ECU: I understand you can just use the stock ecu which isn't programmable...but it's cheap ($0)...no safeguard no timing advance, no fuel pressure increase = engine failure

Rising Rate FPR (FMU) and ignition retardation switch to trick the ecu...what FM protege turbo kit uses: I was told that a FMU would work well (and is quite affordable ~$200) assuming that the pr5 is not a returnless fuel system...however the draw backs i've heard it has no safeguard for failure and compared to the more expensive systems has little tuning potential meaning the rev band won't be as effective (limits amt of boost too)

piggyback ecu: this i'm not sure of exists for the pr5 yet...but wouldn't a s-afc mimic its effect giving another possibility...again without any safeguard

stand alone ems: cheapest i've seen them are $1,500 from motec...i've read some posts on the haltec unit but it's just too expensive for me with the cost of the kit...i was told the aem system was the best b/c its plug and play (but not for the pr5)...they do have a universal ems system but wondering how hard it will be to install

i only have 6k miles on the car and am worried about blowing the engine b/c of this...i road race (on a road course not suv slalom on the highway) so the engine will see some stress but nothing in the amount of endurance racing...it is also a daily driver

i'm not sure i understand all the options correctly as i'm not too familiar with forced induction...if i go the fmu route should i buy a safeguard system or just enjoy for a while then save up for the programmable ems system...thanks in advance

 

[falkofire]

piggyback ecu: this i'm not sure of exists for the pr5 yet...but wouldn't a s-afc mimic its effect giving another possibility...again without any safeguard

I believe that an apexi unit doesn't work for our cars...it will work at partial throttle..but the ecu cancels that all out and at WOT..and the S-AFC

 

[falkofire]

wont work..sorry hit the button accidently

 

[chdesign]

If you are looking for something to get you by for now a FMU will work up to 8 psi just fine but its a ticking bomb after that. Personally I will never do a FMU setup again its kinda like a dry nitrous kit yeah its nice but once you go wet you'l never go back. You can get a MF2 unit like i'm using for cheap off one of the honda boards from a guy parting out a F-Max kit I see them on there all the time...how do you think I got mine. Of course you could go all out and get a stand alone but I know my MF2 will support up to 175 extra hp which will be more than enough for me. If I want more I'll slap some bigger injectors on it thats all. Just my .02

 

[NC_MP3]

Has anyone tried actually moving the crank trigger sensor? You could move it and retard the timing. Works on bikes

 

[chdesign]

I fyou move the crank trigger it will cause the car to not run since it cross references the crank trigger with the cam position sensor if they are off from one another they will throw a CEL and you will misfire like a mother.

 

[Nasa_Racers]

If you are looking for something to get you by for now a FMU will work up to 8 psi just fine but its a ticking bomb after that. Personally I will never do a FMU setup again its kinda like a dry nitrous kit yeah its nice but once you go wet you'l never go back. You can get a MF2 unit like i'm using for cheap off one of the honda boards from a guy parting out a F-Max kit I see them on there all the time...how do you think I got mine. Of course you could go all out and get a stand alone but I know my MF2 will support up to 175 extra hp which will be more than enough for me. If I want more I'll slap some bigger injectors on it thats all. Just my .02

so an erl mf2 (injector controller) will piggy back the stock ecu allowing it to increase fuel to a higher level...would i need to get new injectors or would this not be a problem until we go over 10 psi?

the kit also mentions getting a msd boost timing master to control detonation (takes place of failsafe)...does this timing master also require me to get a msd ignition control or will it work with the stock mazda ignition?

to all...you guys have been really helpful...thanks

 

[chdesign]

The MSD boost master will not work on our ignitions. The MF2 comes that F-Max uses comes with 2 440cc injectors that you weld the bosses onto your charge piping and it delievers fuel like that. If you wanted to just upgrade your current injectors then you would either hav eto get a stand alone or a eManage....no one is sure if the eManage will work compeltly on our cars yet though as no one has tried it yet. Oh yes with 440cc injectors the MF2 can support up to 175 extra hp another injector controller is the one from SDS the SDS EIC go to www.sdsefi.com and you will find info about it there along with their stand alones they sell.

 

[saided18]

isn't spoolin working on a full stand alone for the MP3/P5??

 

[chdesign]

yes he is a Microtech stand alone but this will probably be in the 1000+ price range as well easy.

 

[Nasa_Racers]

to do the job properly it looks like timing, fuel, and ignition all need to be tuned properly...which means a standalone

right now i'm looking at the haltech which runs around $1300...it will use the stock injectors, fuel pump, etc but replace the ecu with one that can be tuned for boost properly

does a standalone have anti detonation capability?

what do you guys think of the sdsefi system? www.sdsefi.com

 

[Dragon_Reborn]

which Haltech system would you go for if u were to pick that over the sdsefi one?

 

[chdesign]

The SDS systems are easy to tune and dont' require a laptop which is very nice if you want to make fine adjustments you don't have to hook up your laptop to do it just press a couple buttons on the control pad.

 

[spoolinmp3]

The SDS unit is a nice unit, and haltech is one of the industry bench marks when it comes to stand alone systems. So now the real question is what is the best? Well there is no real difinitive awnser. Obviously standalone provides the ultimate peformance allowing control of all engine parameters but is more expensive, harder to tune and install.

Piggy backs are good systems as well if they can control timing and add fuel via bigger or addtl injectors. I currently run a link piggy on my car with great success and find it to be an excellent system for our application. You have to take into account that we cannot reliably boost more than 10 psi so is installing a standalone from scratch really worth it? I would personally go with a piggy system unless there was something on the market that was standalone that was fully plug and play with tuned maps.
We are currently on our microtech project and this is what we are out to do. However and we have encountered many problems with retrofitting the unit to the car and with the manufacturer of the unit. I am beginning to have serious doubts about the unit. Unless these guys dont get there act together real soon I will take our business some place else and develop something else. We already are eye balling a system that seams perfect and will be in the 800 dollar range compared to the microtech 1500 dollar or so range. If things do not go as planned we may be ditching this project and move on to another engine managment system very very soon. Something that will be plug and play and piggy back in nature having control of timing and fuel.
I will just have to wait and see.

 

[Kooldino]

to do the job properly it looks like timing, fuel, and ignition all need to be tuned properly...which means a standalone

right now i'm looking at the haltech which runs around $1300...it will use the stock injectors, fuel pump, etc but replace the ecu with one that can be tuned for boost properly

does a standalone have anti detonation capability?

what do you guys think of the sdsefi system? www.sdsefi.com

Dude, you don't wanna use stock injectors if you plan on making serious power.


SPOOLIN: what ever happened w/ the emanage, bro? Is it still a good option?

 

[twizyours]

Yes I was wondering if the e-manage will work on our cars, I am assuming not since no one has gotten one installed yet.

 

[smp3000]

I have read great things about the new AEM programmable engine mngmt, system. Has anyone looked into that?

 

[spoolinmp3]

Yes I was wondering if the e-manage will work on our cars, I am assuming not since no one has gotten one installed yet.

There are some complications with the ability for the emanage to affectivily retard timing. Something would have to be rigged but it could be done

 

[twizyours]

Thanks spoolin. I am very interested and have been thinking about the E-Manage but right now I am not at that point. I think I might start planning on it though.

 

[Nasa_Racers]

Dude, you don't wanna use stock injectors if you plan on making serious power.

SPOOLIN: what ever happened w/ the emanage, bro? Is it still a good option?

i'm not worried about making serious power in the short term...just looking for the best control over boost/timing/ignition/fuel on a limited budget...we will only run 6psi at first then up it to 8 later on...eventually get to 10-12 with a standalone