Fit and finish on new cx-5
- Thread starter Drm31078
- Start date
I'm not a car salesman or work for a dealer but from personal experience the waiver is accompanied by an illustration of the car. Spot a scratch? It gets logged on the illustration. Window tint has bubble in it or peeling on one edge? It gets marked. See where I'm getting at? Once identified the dealership can remedy the problem for you. It's not like cars come packaged in bubble wrapped in a sealed box. Damage can occur at any time from the moment its delivered on the lot. In theory a car dealership can replace the leather seat cover for you. There really should be some type of documentation somewhere which reports issues prior to you driving it off the lot but lets get past that. I think you should raise the issue as a customer to have them resolve these issues that bother you. Your feedback is really valuable to them. In this day and age, online Yelp and Google reviews of the actual dealerships hold weight. And yes I would stress the bumper to bumper warranty. Consider paint. If a brand new car has clear coat peeling I'm having the dealer repaint that panel under warranty. Google search "Dash Cracked Warranty". You'll find manufactures like Lexus installing whole new dashes covered under warranty. Lexus is the king of car manufacturing QA and even they are immune to small things going wrong. Raise the issues with the dealership is my advice. If that doesn't work try another dealership or notify Mazda USA.
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Brand new Mazda 2016 CX-5 owner here which we bought for our teenage drivers. I am used to the fit and finish of "premium" brands and I agree that the CX-5 is not exactly in the same league with the $50,000+/- cars (that's how much one would have to spend for a CUV from a luxury brand with all the features of the $32,000 2016 CX-5 Grand Touring with the technology and ActivSense packages). But I would argue that the quality difference is not nearly to the tune of $15,000+. The cabin of the CX-5 is also not as insulated from road noise as some of the CUVs of the premium brands but the difference there is really minimal (there is a big difference between an Audi Q3, Q5 and Q7, a BMW X1, X3 and X5, etc. so the lower-end models of the luxury brands are not exactly luxury rides when it comes to noise reduction). I am also used to V6 and V8 engines and the 2.5 4-cylinder is not nearly as smooth or powerful in comparison but then again, for $32,000 fully loaded, it is hard to complain. Unless you really push the engine, the 2.5 is very smooth and extremely quiet and vibration free when idling. Lastly, the dealership experience with luxury brands is likely more pleasant and you get free loaners and car washes but as long as you do not have warranty issues, you hopefully will not see a dealership more than twice per year for regular maintenance.
While there is no doubt that the fit and finish of Audi, BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and Porsche are a step above Mazda, when it comes to reliability, every manufacturer has issues. I have had a bi-turbo Audi with both turbos destroying themselves at the same time, a Porsche with the audio/nav head unit having to be replaced, a BMW with the air conditioning suddenly refusing to work, a Mercedes with electrical problems that destroyed the battery, etc.
In summary, I think it is all about expectations. Maybe you thought that with all the glowing reviews you will get a $50,000 car experience with a $30,000 purchase. When I read reviews of hotels, I understand that a 3-star hotel does not give me a luxury hotel experience even if the hotel received dozens of outstanding "5 star" reviews. The same principle applies to cars: I never expected our $32,000 car to be on par with a $50,000 vehicle. Nevertheless, I would argue that the difference in fit and finish and riding experience is not nearly almost $20,000 apart (how much one values the badge and dealer experience is a different matter and harder to put a price on). If money were no object, should you get a $50,000+ CUV? Absolutely. On the other hand, is the CX-5 an excellent vehicle within $30,000+/-? I think so. I am neither forgiving nor a loyal Mazda customer but simply compare the vehicle apples to apples with similarly priced vehicles.
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- Mazdaspeed6
Self proclaimed.
Here's a fine source.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20141110/OEM/311109962?template=mobile&X-IgnoreUserAgent=1
We test drove the NX 200t and generally liked the fit and finish but the engine was a big disappointment considering the substantial horsepower and torque advantage over the 2.5 CX-5. It felt sluggish, not very smooth and pretty loud during hard acceleration (probably not as loud as the CX-5 when pushed hard, though). The sliding back bench is nice (slightly less space than the CX-5) but the cargo room is really small so from a utility perspective, the CX-5 definitely wins. The NX has a more aggressive stance but looks are obviously in the eye of the beholder. Overall, the NX is certainly a nice car but I would feel hard pressed to spend around $45,000 just to get a slightly nicer interior and a luxury badge - you still feel that it is an entry-level Lexus.
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I looked at the two pictures and couldn't see anything in the first picture but did see a slight wrinkle in the second picture. These things seem awfully minor and if I were you I wouldn't worry about it. In my experience when mechanics tear apart your vehicle to fix something minor like this, they often do more damage taking the vehicle apart. These would be things that you wouldn't notice on the surface after the repair like missing screws, clips, or bolts.
I used to be an engineer, and I still expect manufactured items to function as intended. I'm now a management consultant, and I know that perfection is rare. Getting the most important things right is the best way to win and keep customers. The more expensive the product, the higher are customers' expectations, and the higher the cost of meeting those expectations.
I travelled for a few days with a Mercedes customer service VP a few years ago. He had Mercedes expectations, and brought them with him wherever he went. The guy was an embarrassment to be with because he expected white glove service even when paying blue collar prices.
I don't blame the OP for being disappointed with Mazda's lack of perfection, but seriously, you aren't going to get Mercedes attention to detail at Mazda prices. Mazdas do some things better than cars made by their competitors. That's why I have owned 5 Mazdas. They're fun to drive, sporty, and quite reliable. They're also a little noisy and not as refined as a Lexus or BMW. Personally, I'd rather pay Mazda prices, turn the radio up, and avoid being bled dry for maintenance and service (BMW) or put to sleep (Lexus).
We all find our own sweet spot. The OP's expectations don't seem to fit Mazda's overall value proposition. Best he finds a marque that specializes in delivering what he expects. He and his supplier will be happier.
I travelled for a few days with a Mercedes customer service VP a few years ago. He had Mercedes expectations, and brought them with him wherever he went. The guy was an embarrassment to be with because he expected white glove service even when paying blue collar prices.
I don't blame the OP for being disappointed with Mazda's lack of perfection, but seriously, you aren't going to get Mercedes attention to detail at Mazda prices. Mazdas do some things better than cars made by their competitors. That's why I have owned 5 Mazdas. They're fun to drive, sporty, and quite reliable. They're also a little noisy and not as refined as a Lexus or BMW. Personally, I'd rather pay Mazda prices, turn the radio up, and avoid being bled dry for maintenance and service (BMW) or put to sleep (Lexus).
We all find our own sweet spot. The OP's expectations don't seem to fit Mazda's overall value proposition. Best he finds a marque that specializes in delivering what he expects. He and his supplier will be happier.
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- RDX Aspec Adv.
Much more concise than I.
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- Plano, Texas, USA
This is exactly my concern if I were you even if Mazda is willing to replace the dash board and rear seat. Most mechanics at dealers are not trained properly and is not capable of doing such job perfectly. I once had the windshield replaced under new car warranty on our VW Jetta due to the severe distortion right at the driver eye level. I was watching the technician doing it and it was not a pretty sight. That almost made me wonder if I should let the dealer to replace the windshield.
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So basically this whole post can be summarized as "nobody takes pride in their work anymore." I can't get a quality product because people don't care about attention to detail or craftsmanship. Then if I want to get it fixed, I shouldn't because they are going to screw it up and make it worse. What a world we live in...Based on a lot of thes posters it seems the bulk of society has been brainwashed to accept mediocrity. Forgive me if I am anti-brainwashing.
I am going to talk to the dealer and see what he thinks. I would at least like to have these things acknowledged as manufacturer defects and not wear and tear in case they get worse. . As to what I actually get fixed, I will see what they say. If they do fix something I will be clear that if they damage something in the process I will expect it to be fixed.
I am going to talk to the dealer and see what he thinks. I would at least like to have these things acknowledged as manufacturer defects and not wear and tear in case they get worse. . As to what I actually get fixed, I will see what they say. If they do fix something I will be clear that if they damage something in the process I will expect it to be fixed.
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- RDX Aspec Adv.
No, it can be surmised by saying that a certain level of productivity is required for Mazda to be profitable selling vehicles at the price-point they do, and human ability only allows for so much precision at said set-point of productivity. Also, yes, I think you are going to be a sad panda if the dealer rips your dash out. Sure, they can then spend FOREVER hunting down the rattle/squeak they caused that now drives you NUTS! but...
Seriously, you're not going to like the outcome of this.
The way I see it, you need to get out of your CX-5, or adjust your expectations to fit its reality, one of the two. No middle ground at this point.
I wouldn't summarize it that way. I'd say it can be summed up as "good costs money, great costs more, and perfect costs even more". It's the same "curve" that applies to almost everything in life - diminishing returns per additional dollar spent. You want the best speakers, you pay twice as much as you would for another pair sounding 98% as good. You want the best bottle of wine, you'll pay 10 times as much as you would for a bottle that's arguably just as good but doesn't have the rave review from a famous wine reviewer.
We should all find a car company that specializes in delivering what we prioritize as being most important, and stick with that marque. I want sporty handling, fun, and reliability. I won't pay for Lexus-like quiet, BMW-like performance, or Mercedes-like refinement. It just isn't worth it to me. I've owned 14 cars ranging from a Sunbeam to a Mercedes, and I just don't think the expensive ones are worth the additional money. But it sounds as though you do, and if you're willing to pay for it, go for it. Just don't expect that you'll get it in a Mazda, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, GM, etc. That's for the luxury marques, and it comes at a price.
I'm sure the Mazda assembly worker cares as much about his work as his Mercedes counterpart, but the Mazda guy doesn't have as much time per operation to get it perfect because there are fewer person-hours in the average Mazda than in the average Mercedes. And that, after all, is what it's all about. If you want more person-hours in your car, you've got to pay for more person-hours. They're not free.
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- Plano, Texas, USA
I actually is on your side although it seems more people are on the other. I have had exactly the same feeling when I was younger that many people really didn't care about attention to detail or craftsmanship. But the reality is that simply just costs too much to do it. And the big corporations, and many people are mostly short sighted. They only see making goals and profits in the short term. I started to learn to let it go. Eventually you'll get used to it. After all the life is short and we can't let too many things bothering us and making us unhappy all the time.
I know I'd be upset if I have issues like yours. That's why we buy new cars all the time since we're conformable and always try to find a very low mileage new car even willing to wait for it by ordering one. All of these just for hoping to get a new car with less imperfections and slight issues. Many friends' Lexus (Lexi?) are also having issues which to me is unacceptable. It is unfortunate that your CX-5 is having more than usual imperfections. I did check out ours and I couldn't find anything similar to yours. I know I'd be upset if our CX-5 is having the same issues and I have to debate whether I should urge Mazda to replace these under warranty. I still believe CX-5 from Japan has pretty good quality on fit and finish. Yours is just an exception. And it is unlucky that you just happened to get it.
Rarebit and Unobtanium make great points.
It can be summarized that: "Absolute Quality absolutely costs"
And yes, an extensive interior repair might "disturb the force" meaning things will be disassembled that are best left as they originated in Hiroshima.
Squeaks, rattles, possibly electrical gremlins with rule thereafter.
It can be summarized that: "Absolute Quality absolutely costs"
And yes, an extensive interior repair might "disturb the force" meaning things will be disassembled that are best left as they originated in Hiroshima.
Squeaks, rattles, possibly electrical gremlins with rule thereafter.
It can also be summarized as "nothing is perfect".
I have yet to own a car that has no single flaw from the beginning to the end of ownership and I have owned plenty of luxury as well as mainstream brands. You may be lucky to trade your CX-5 into a Lexus NX but I am pretty sure that you will eventually find flaws with the Lexus, too, maybe not cosmetic but some other issues like mechanical, noise or functionalities (I for one did not like the touchpad for the navigation nor the sluggish engine).
Finding flaws that are cosmetic are at least easy to spot before you sign and take possession of the car. I am generally more worried about hidden issues and I can tell you that I had my share of hidden mechanical and electrical problems with premium brands, including Lexus, like a powered rear hatch door that would not want to close or some squeaks/rattles that magically disappeared whenever a Lexus technician was in the car to identify the source ;-)
I have yet to own a car that has no single flaw from the beginning to the end of ownership and I have owned plenty of luxury as well as mainstream brands. You may be lucky to trade your CX-5 into a Lexus NX but I am pretty sure that you will eventually find flaws with the Lexus, too, maybe not cosmetic but some other issues like mechanical, noise or functionalities (I for one did not like the touchpad for the navigation nor the sluggish engine).
Finding flaws that are cosmetic are at least easy to spot before you sign and take possession of the car. I am generally more worried about hidden issues and I can tell you that I had my share of hidden mechanical and electrical problems with premium brands, including Lexus, like a powered rear hatch door that would not want to close or some squeaks/rattles that magically disappeared whenever a Lexus technician was in the car to identify the source ;-)
CX5T Lover
Member
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- 2015 Mazda CX-5 Touring
As a former/retired mechanical engineer, I'll try to put my 2 cents into this discussion as far as your above comments...
You're somewhat correct in saying: "Nobody takes pride in their work anymore". Years ago we had "craftsmen" who took pride in what they did... and the results of their efforts showed it. Now days, in most cases, it's the time/money being the defining factor... where the quicker something is completed, the sooner the next job can be started (and thus, more profit).
I would somewhat disagree with your statement that: "Based on a lot of thes posters it seems the bulk of society has been brainwashed to accept mediocrity." I don't believe that's the case, but rather the time, money and aggravation (let alone some of the legal requirements one has to go through), to pursue a remedy to a questionable distasteful situation, is what keeps people from taking it further.
On the other hand: one must realize (unless they're trying to live in a utopia world wearing rose colored glasses), nothing is ever going to be 100% blemish free perfect... and as such, occasional situations and circumstances do occur that prove this to be true.
As a final thought "DRM 31078"... so you don't end up in the same situation like this one with your next vehicle purchase, I suggest you take a hour or so and do a more intensive interior/exterior inspection. Anything found not up to your standards on that particular vehicle, walk away from it and go on to the next vehicle on the dealers lot. I'm willing to bet that one of the vehicles they have there will more that meet your rigid expectations.
CX5T Lover
dragonteeth
Member
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- '15 CX-5 Touring AWD w/ Bose ★
This is basically what it boils down to.
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