First Snow in a '14 iT Manual

[Ki||ian]

Got our first snow of the season here in the DC region and wanted to post my thoughts on my short drive to work this morning.

-Opening either front door sucked in quite a bit of snow RIGHT onto the seats. I though I had gotten the snow off the top of the door frame so this didn't happen but it sucked in a bunch from the back SIDE of the door and it went all over the seats. It looks like some got caught in the door frame before opening too which didn't help but I'll check on that later.

-Windows defrosted pretty quickly.

-Would benefit greatly from snow tires but winter in this area can really be Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde. One winter ZERO snow then a TON the next. Don't know if the investment in winter tires would be worth the money yet.

 

[npaladin2000]

That's why they make all-season tires. The good ones, at least.

 

[fb88]

My new DWS tires on AWD car (non-Mazda) failed to stop on fresh snow/ice today and clipped a car and hit a cable box... ABS pulsed for about 2 seconds the whole time. maybe snow tires would have helped. was only going about 25-30mph, guess that was too fast... or needed to try to brake way way ahead. It'll take weeks to repair so maybe I should get the 2014 Mazda 3...

What would Smart City brake do in this case when ABS kicks in over ice...

 

[KuroHouou]

My new DWS tires on AWD car (non-Mazda) failed to stop on fresh snow/ice today and clipped a car and hit a cable box... ABS pulsed for about 2 seconds the whole time. maybe snow tires would have helped. was only going about 25-30mph, guess that was too fast... or needed to try to brake way way ahead. It'll take weeks to repair so maybe I should get the 2014 Mazda 3...

What would Smart City brake do in this case when ABS kicks in over ice...

Well AWD does nothing to help you stop in the snow for one. If you want to get good stopping distances in the snow you need snow tires. I am guessing smart city brake still enables abs if it needs to, but it probably won't help in the snow either as it's tuned for dry/wet braking, to stop in the snow you have to start 2-3 times further back and the radar probably wouldn't even see the cars ahead in order to start braking in time.

 

[strongbad]

My new DWS tires on AWD car (non-Mazda) failed to stop on fresh snow/ice today and clipped a car and hit a cable box... ABS pulsed for about 2 seconds the whole time. maybe snow tires would have helped. was only going about 25-30mph, guess that was too fast... or needed to try to brake way way ahead. It'll take weeks to repair so maybe I should get the 2014 Mazda 3...

What would Smart City brake do in this case when ABS kicks in over ice...

The Smart City brake would have saved the day. You don't have to worry about snow and ice because Smart City brake will always stop you no matter what.

 

[KuroHouou]

The Smart City brake would have saved the day. You don't have to worry about snow and ice because Smart City brake will always stop you no matter what.

I am sorry but smart city brake has no idea if its snowing out, because of that it doesn't know to start stopping 2-3x further back then in the dry/wet. No matter what system you use, computer or manual, stopping a car in the snow at the same point as you would in the dry/wet is a world of difference in stopping distances. Your looking at 2-3x further stopping distances.. my guess, if you just relied on Smart City brake it would have been much worse, its designed to start stopping at the last possible moment in order to ensure it stops right before impact (watch the videos). If it does that and there is snow on the ground, your in for a HUGE wreck as you will not have slowed down more then a few mph probably.

 

[npaladin2000]

The Smart City brake would have saved the day. You don't have to worry about snow and ice because Smart City brake will always stop you no matter what.

I hope that was sarcasm.

 

[fb88]

How many of you switched to winter tires?

 

[Chibana]

I always use winter tires. Have been for at least 12 years. My Michelin X-Ice Xi3 winter tires are on their way. I wish I had them this morning, but the OEM tires weren't too bad in the snow for "no-season" tires.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/winter-tires-track-tested

 

[npaladin2000]

I don't use winter tires, if I see or hear about weather I work from home. My office is 50 miles away, I don't take chances like that. My tires only need to be good enough to get me home when weather comes up suddenly. So a really really good all-season (Like ContiExtremeContact DWS or Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3) is good enough.

 

[Chibana]

Winter tires aren't just about snow grip, but temperature as well. All-season just don't cut it in any season. They're a constant compromise.

 

[npaladin2000]

Not the right all-seasons. This isn't Michigan here, nor is it the Great White North. It doesn't get cold enough to turn all-seasons into rocks in the lower Hudson Valley (summer tires are a different story though). Plus my commute is on heavily traveled interstates, so the pavement stays fairly warm. On top of THAT, I don't have a place to store tires, I live in a condo, and we don't have basement storage space.

Frankly the last snow tires I had were worse than my ContiExtremeContact DWS tires in snow, rain, and on dry pavement. That by itself sold me on spending my money on a single set of the best all-season tires available rather than a set of mediocre winters and a set of mediocre all seasons or summer tires. Because I'm not doubling my tire budget.

 

[Chibana]

I've often wondered what I would do if I lived somewhere with more moderate weather, where you will get a just a bit of cold and snow, so that summer-only tires will screw you over during some winter days and it's not worth it to get winter tires. Still not sure. However, one point: you don't double your tire cost going with winter tires, as you're not using both sets of tires simultaneously. Storing them can certainly be a problem. I was hoping to get a set of winter wheels and tires for my wife's new Lincoln MKX, but after I saw the size of the (20") wheels and tires, I realized that not only would the second set be expensive, but I have nowhere to put wheels/tires that large. I sure don't want them in the basement, and they won't fit in our small shed, at least not with the other stuff in there, including my second set of wheels and tires.

I wish I could afford to get the Michelin PS3 tires that came on my Focus for my Mazda3. They were amazing summer-only tires. They had probably the best wet-weather traction I've ever experienced, with fantastic hydroplane resistance. They're just too damn expensive, though, like most Michelins. They also don't last a long time.

 

[nitsuj]

How many of you switched to winter tires?

I have winter tires on. Hasn't snowed yet, but it's been cold (10 at night) and its forecast to snow tomorrow. I get them because of cold weather performance more than dealing with snow. My drive has a lot of hills, curves, and a couple roundabouts. I also cross a river where we get a lot of freezing fog. As for cost, it's much cheaper to avoid and accident because you have the right tires.

 

[nsbio]

nitsuj: 10 at night is not cold at all: any modern tire will be fine at that temperature. Even in my neck of (lack of) woods, when it has been -20F at night a couple of times already this year, all season tires do just fine , although I will probably end up buying winter tires for the next year.

 

[icajewler]

Who lives near or in NC? Where you can have a warm, wet, humid winter morning and a cold, dry, windy midday and then a hot, foggy afternoon which turns into a rainy, freezing night. Tires? As long as they're made of rubber, and there is no metal showing, I guess you could get around in the same set all year. It was 78 degrees yesterday and then 20 this morning. Road conditions go from wet to ice to dry in four hours. I don't even want to talk about the dirt roads or even bridges for that matter. If i could get four sets of expensive tires I'd put one on each wheel

 

[nitsuj]

nitsuj: 10 at night is not cold at all: any modern tire will be fine at that temperature. Even in my neck of (lack of) woods, when it has been -20F at night a couple of times already this year, all season tires do just fine , although I will probably end up buying winter tires for the next year.

Below 40 All season tires stiffen and their performance is degraded, I like to have consistent performance as the temps drop. I used to try to make it through the winter without putting winter tires on, but after getting stuck in my driveway and having to put chains on to get my wife to work I started just putting them on around Nov 15th each year. The budget keeps getting cut for plow service and a large chunk of my commute may not get plowed regularly, if at all. My commute also includes a 400' elevation drop over 3/4 mile on a road with 20mph curves. Am I being a little too careful, probably, but I'd rather not try my luck.

 

[npaladin2000]

Who lives near or in NC? Where you can have a warm, wet, humid winter morning and a cold, dry, windy midday and then a hot, foggy afternoon which turns into a rainy, freezing night. Tires? As long as they're made of rubber, and there is no metal showing, I guess you could get around in the same set all year. It was 78 degrees yesterday and then 20 this morning. Road conditions go from wet to ice to dry in four hours. I don't even want to talk about the dirt roads or even bridges for that matter. If i could get four sets of expensive tires I'd put one on each wheel

Sounds a lot like NY, no wonder everyone from here moved there.

Below 40 All season tires stiffen and their performance is degraded,

1. That depends on the compound the all-season tire is made up of, they all have different characteristics. Some of the more unique compounds stay flexible down to 0 degrees. Still not as low as a winter tire that's good to -50, but not everyone sees those temperatures.
2. You're mixing up ambient temperature and operating temperature. Tires warm up as you drive on them, just because it's 40 degrees outside doesn't mean your tires are 40 degrees during your drive. Also, pavement tends to be warmer than ambient temperature, because of all the cars driving on it (plus it retains heat fairly well).

 

[Debbadoo12]

Who lives near or in NC? Where you can have a warm, wet, humid winter morning and a cold, dry, windy midday and then a hot, foggy afternoon which turns into a rainy, freezing night. Tires? As long as they're made of rubber, and there is no metal showing, I guess you could get around in the same set all year. It was 78 degrees yesterday and then 20 this morning. Road conditions go from wet to ice to dry in four hours. I don't even want to talk about the dirt roads or even bridges for that matter. If i could get four sets of expensive tires I'd put one on each wheel

Yep, I know exactly what you mean! I live in the Charlotte area and temps fluctuate on a regular basis. Rarely, though, do we every maintain temps below 40 degrees for any length of time. Thank goodness!

 

[Chibana]

And NO summer-only tires is going to be OK below 40 degrees.

There is no disputing that winter tires will perform better in winter than all-seasons. It's been proven time and again in multiple tests at Tire Rack and just about every major car magazine. Yes, different all-season tires and winter tires have different design priorities so that some all-season might come close to, or even beat, some winter tires in certain cold weather conditions. The ultra-high performance winter tires I had on my 2012 Focus when I traded it in were not great in deep snow--they were designed more for high performance driving; however, any all-season tire that would have beaten them would also likely have pretty serious sacrifices in warmer conditions, possibly in both wet and dry. Greater numbers of sipes are worse for dry conditions. There's a reason why racing slicks are used when the track is dry. Lots of sipes are not necessarily better for rain, either.

The fact is that if you're living in a place that gets a significant number of winter days below 40 degrees, especially with a significant amount of snow, you're doing yourself a disservice (and possibly everyone who shares the road with you) by running all-seasons in those conditions. Likewise, all-seasons are not going to offer the same levels of grip, probably dry or wet, in summer, depending on the design goals of the summer-only tires (many of which don't have much wet-weather traction). There isn't an all-season tire in the world that would come close to the dry, summer traction of the Michelin Pilot Super Sports on my RX-8.

It's up to you to decide whether you have severe enough winter weather to bother with winter tires, and whether that extra summer grip is worth having separate summer tires. For many people, it won't be worth the hassle and cost of a second set of wheels, even if they're steelies. If you don't care about ultimate summer grip, then an all-season tire with good snow traction is probably fine for you. That's the conclusion I've come to with our new Lincoln MKX. The tires on that vehicle are clearly designed for mud and snow. They're noisier on dry pavement, and probably don't offer the best steering response or dry grip in summer, but we don't care that much about those things with this vehicle.