Ethanol free gas
- Thread starter mongo2004
- Start date
iced_theater
Member
There is probably a small increase in mpg, but I couldn't tell you for sure as I only run ethanol free gas in my CX-5.
I've only had 1 tank with no ethanol gas and experienced about my best fuel economy yet (37.6 mpg with an average speed of 40 mph - see my fuelly update from Jan 19). I was really surprised with this result since we had 4 days of normal driving (non-highway/freeway) before our road trip so i would say we got about 10% higher (about 3.8 mpg) than what I was expecting. The no-ethanol gas I got happened to be higher octane (90 octane) and cost about 20% more than the normal 87 octane that I would get at QT/BP/Costco.
Still this was a sample size of 1 fillup and I haven't gotten around to trying another tank of no-ethanol yet. I will probably try another tank and more closely monitor things to see if I can duplicate the last results. Perhaps some other people can share their experience also but no-ethanol gas will not be found unless you really look for it. I found the gas supplier where I got my tank from pure-gas.org.
Still this was a sample size of 1 fillup and I haven't gotten around to trying another tank of no-ethanol yet. I will probably try another tank and more closely monitor things to see if I can duplicate the last results. Perhaps some other people can share their experience also but no-ethanol gas will not be found unless you really look for it. I found the gas supplier where I got my tank from pure-gas.org.
Hey iced_theater, Which gas station do you fill up at? The gas prices from your fuelly account just seem to be like the normal premium (91 octane with 10% ethanol) in Wyoming.
PhoenixINX
Member
- :
- 2013 Mazda CX-5 GT
I've tried multiple tanks of ethanol free in both cars... no difference except for paying $0.30 more per gallon. 
You guys lucky enough to have access to ethanol free gas should be getting 3%-4% better MPG..
Not quite worth it if pure gas costs $0.30 extra..
"E10 (gasohol)
E10 (also called gasohol) is a blend of 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline sold in many parts of the country. All auto manufacturers approve the use of blends of 10% ethanol or less in their gasoline vehicles. However, vehicles will typically go 34% fewer miles per gallon on E10 than on straight gasoline.1"
source:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml
Not quite worth it if pure gas costs $0.30 extra..
"E10 (gasohol)
E10 (also called gasohol) is a blend of 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline sold in many parts of the country. All auto manufacturers approve the use of blends of 10% ethanol or less in their gasoline vehicles. However, vehicles will typically go 34% fewer miles per gallon on E10 than on straight gasoline.1"
source:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml
Ethanol doesn't have as much energy content as gasoline. A gallon of ethanol just can't get you as far as a gallon of gasoline. Takes more gallons of ethanol to go the same miles. So if you dilute gasoline with ethanol, you get worse MPG.
It's too bad ethanol free gasoline is practically impossible for most drivers to get in a large city.
It's too bad ethanol free gasoline is practically impossible for most drivers to get in a large city.
- :
- Mazdaspeed6
ETOH is used in gasoline, in part, as an oxygenate. Thus, it takes a larger quantity into the cylinder of ETOH laden fuels to burn at E10's stoich AFR of ~14.2.
"Ethanol free" gasoline, otherwise known as "conventional," (though conventional can sometimes have ETOH blended into it), has less oxygen content than ETOH blended fuels, so requires less fuel injected into the cylinder to obtain stoich AFR of 14.7.
You *should* definitely see a small difference in efficiency between the two.
"Ethanol free" gasoline, otherwise known as "conventional," (though conventional can sometimes have ETOH blended into it), has less oxygen content than ETOH blended fuels, so requires less fuel injected into the cylinder to obtain stoich AFR of 14.7.
You *should* definitely see a small difference in efficiency between the two.
I don't think the higher octane is a good choice. If there is any increase in mpg, it probably won't be enough to offset the increased cost.
For me, the lower octane 87 no-ethanol blend is the better choice. Some places it's cheaper than the "mid grade" 89 ethanol, and some places it's actually more. I pay about $.10 more for the "regular" 87, and see a slight increase in mpg. Costs 2-3% more, but I see enough increase in mpg to cover that. I would guess as much as 5%, but haven't tracked it enough yet really. Doesn't make a big difference in $$, but worst case is that I break even compared to buying the cheapest blend. I do it because I drive about 200 miles most days and if I can go an extra 20 miles on every tank, it's more convenient... less fuel stops.
btw, my old 2.3l Mazda 5 loved the 87 fuel. I would see 5-10% increase in mpg after running 89 for a while, and switching back to 87 for several tanks. But sometimes it didn't matter as much.... seasonal blends change etc...
For me, the lower octane 87 no-ethanol blend is the better choice. Some places it's cheaper than the "mid grade" 89 ethanol, and some places it's actually more. I pay about $.10 more for the "regular" 87, and see a slight increase in mpg. Costs 2-3% more, but I see enough increase in mpg to cover that. I would guess as much as 5%, but haven't tracked it enough yet really. Doesn't make a big difference in $$, but worst case is that I break even compared to buying the cheapest blend. I do it because I drive about 200 miles most days and if I can go an extra 20 miles on every tank, it's more convenient... less fuel stops.
btw, my old 2.3l Mazda 5 loved the 87 fuel. I would see 5-10% increase in mpg after running 89 for a while, and switching back to 87 for several tanks. But sometimes it didn't matter as much.... seasonal blends change etc...
Holly crap you have the highest average MPG I've seen to date. I bet iot has something to do with the ethanol free gas too.
And that it's the 2.0L w/ 6 speed manual, runs 40 psi in the tires and lives in Wyoming and mostly does longer trips (24,000 miles in 10 months).
Here's a map of the U.S. marking stations with ethanol free gas:
http://pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html
Funny story. I went to try some ethanol free gas at a station in a neighboring town since I was in the area. But last week the pumps had a new sticker saying "10% ethanol". I inquired inside and the cashier said they couldn't sell ethanol free gas any more because of Obama. He looked really upset. I asked him why thousands of other stations in the U.S. still sell it if Obama outlawed it. He had that "deer in the headlights" look and finally mumbled something about not really knowing why but said their supplier didn't carry it anymore.
The fact of the matter is that alcohol costs less than gasoline and most consumers are very price conscious and don't want to pay extra for it.
iced_theater
Member
Kelley's, I get a gas voucher of $25 a week from my job for them. Doesn't cover all the cost of driving to work but it helps. The gas station I go to is on average $.10 more per gallon than one with ethanol in it and I only use the midgrade 87-88 octane
Better mpg w/ethanol free gas
My wife drives a 13' CX9 GT and just got my daughter a 14' CX5 Touring. I run ethanol free in my motorcycles and small engines just to keep ethanol from damaging the small engines. Folks, ethanol is no good for any kind of internal combustion engine. People with 40,000 - 50,000 miles on their vehicles are starting to find out the intake manifold is all gummed up because of ethanol gasoline. Why do you think all these fuel additives are getting so popular? My wife's CX9 gets 3 - 4 mpg better mileage and you can tell it runs so much smoother with ethanol free gas. Our local Shell station 1 mile away carries mid grade ethanol free gas for 4 cents more per gallon than regular. After my daughter's CX5 had 3 tankfulls of "regular" gas w/10%ethanol, I switched to the ethanol free mid grade. My daughter commented that she got 50 more miles on that tank of gas and asked what I did to her car to make it go faster and get better mileage. I hope Mazda comes out with that diesel in the CX9 soon or even in the CX5 then we don't have to worry about ethanol in gasoline.
My personal vehicle is a VW Touareg TDI. I normally get 27mpg around town and always in the low 30s highway mpg. Most people that have ridden with me can not tell that its even a diesel. OBTW, 0 - 60 in 6.6 sec. in a 2.5 ton SUV with full time AWD and can tow 8000 lbs. Most versatile vehicle I've ever had.
My wife drives a 13' CX9 GT and just got my daughter a 14' CX5 Touring. I run ethanol free in my motorcycles and small engines just to keep ethanol from damaging the small engines. Folks, ethanol is no good for any kind of internal combustion engine. People with 40,000 - 50,000 miles on their vehicles are starting to find out the intake manifold is all gummed up because of ethanol gasoline. Why do you think all these fuel additives are getting so popular? My wife's CX9 gets 3 - 4 mpg better mileage and you can tell it runs so much smoother with ethanol free gas. Our local Shell station 1 mile away carries mid grade ethanol free gas for 4 cents more per gallon than regular. After my daughter's CX5 had 3 tankfulls of "regular" gas w/10%ethanol, I switched to the ethanol free mid grade. My daughter commented that she got 50 more miles on that tank of gas and asked what I did to her car to make it go faster and get better mileage. I hope Mazda comes out with that diesel in the CX9 soon or even in the CX5 then we don't have to worry about ethanol in gasoline.
My personal vehicle is a VW Touareg TDI. I normally get 27mpg around town and always in the low 30s highway mpg. Most people that have ridden with me can not tell that its even a diesel. OBTW, 0 - 60 in 6.6 sec. in a 2.5 ton SUV with full time AWD and can tow 8000 lbs. Most versatile vehicle I've ever had.
Last edited:
True, and with 2 major refineries in county and 2 major refineries just 12 miles south of the county line you can blame it on the refineries profit motive greed. They add the alcohol to the gasoline at the refinery - that's why none of the local distributors offer alcohol free gasoline. That, and consumers tend to be very price conscious.
BS. E85 vehicles sold in the U.S. run just fine on 85% alcohol. Yes, they are rated at less power on the alcohol mix but they do not "gum up" or have other operational issues.
Brazil is the 6th largest economy in the world. The majority (90%) of all new cars sold in Brazil run just fine on 95% alcohol (the rest is pure water). There is nothing inherently wrong with running alcohol in an internal combustion engine. There is a lot of misinformation pushed by the oil industry about alcohol (their biggest competitor). Plus, they want to keep demand for pure alcohol low so they can continue to profit by adding it to the gasoline. You should read a little about the history of automotive fuels. It really was all about alcohol until those with a vested interest in oil deposits became involved. The first Model T ran just fine on pure alcohol. Internal combustion engines can be engineered to run just as efficiently on pure alcohol (and much cleaner and more healthfully) as pure gasoline. What do top fuel dragsters run on? 10% is pure alcohol. But the most convincing evidence is in Brazil where 90% of the new cars run fine on 95% alcohol, 5% water. It's really all about money (not that ethanol is "no good for any kind of internal combustion engine". That is just big oil propaganda.
For the cost of a TDI Touareg, it had better be versatile. I test drove one and could not believe how ill handling it was. It was like trying to drive a boat on the public road system. No fun at all. I expected much, much better. I was shocked and disappointed.
Don't know who's Touareg you were test driving but I call BS on that test drive. Its the reason I buy german cars. If you read the magazine tests and spend anytime in one, its one of the major reasons folks buy them is for their handling vs the US and Jap brands.
As for E85, not too many cars are made to run with that fuel. Some of the GM trucks are E85 capable. No one in our company fleet likes to run them because of the side effects. ALL the car manufacturers have gone to DC and stated that if the EPA mandates more than 10% ethanol in the gasoline, they are not going to warrant their cars. The EPA and Obama has backed off of that requirement. They wanted to raise the mixture to 15% and the data they received from the manufacturers backed up the claims on how damaging alcohol is to the engines and how it affects their overall EPA mileage. Lets face it folks, its political and all it does is subsidize (our tax dollars) the corn growers in the midwest. We over produce corn. Corn is also one of the harshest crops on soil. I know, I grew up in a farming part of the southeast. My dad worked for a tractor company when corn when cotton and corn was the cash crop.
Also, 70% of vehicles in Brazil runs on "ahem" diesels!. Its one of the largest market for diesel engines because its only like .75 cents a gallon. The emerging fuel in South America is hydrogen fuel because its derived from natural gas, which there is an abundance of in SA.
I was told by a few guys I worked with who were immigrants from Brazil that the cars in Brazil do not last as long because the water in the ethanol fuel there reduces the life of their engines in comparison to cars in the USA. Not sure how reliable that information was but that is what they told me.
Isn't Ethanol also subsidized by the Federal government? Also correct me if I'm wrong ( someone will anyway) but Ethanol the way its currently made uses more resources to produce than the energy it has stored in the fuel itself? The way I see it the Federal government taxes us, gives it to corn growers to produce ethanol with less BTU than gasoline, and then we pay more in a 3% penalty of reduced fuel economy because it it. Unfortunately for me Massachusetts does not have any ethanol free gas stations around.
Isn't Ethanol also subsidized by the Federal government? Also correct me if I'm wrong ( someone will anyway) but Ethanol the way its currently made uses more resources to produce than the energy it has stored in the fuel itself? The way I see it the Federal government taxes us, gives it to corn growers to produce ethanol with less BTU than gasoline, and then we pay more in a 3% penalty of reduced fuel economy because it it. Unfortunately for me Massachusetts does not have any ethanol free gas stations around.
I just filled up with a tank of ethanol free 90 octane gas. It was $4.20 a gallon compared to $3.99 for 93 and $3.60ish for 87, but I'm curious to see the difference (if any) that it makes. I doubt it will be enough to overcome the price difference, but it'll be a fun little experiment.
