Driving a stick

[ChazSpeed]

So I have owned 4 cars in my lifetime. 3 of them have had standard transmissions (including my MS3). My last vehicle was a GMC Sonoma, After about 5 years and around 80-90k miles the clutch wore out on me. Now I had a bad habbit of resting my foot on the clutch as the truck didn't have a dead pedal spot so I assume this has something to do with it.

I do want to know what other bad habits I have might be though. For instance in the MS3 when launching and merging into traffic I tend to stay on the clutch on the transition from 2nd to 3rd in order to stop the wheel hop and control the acceleration. This is awesome for a smooth take off, but from what I have read it is probably horrible from my clutch.

At the same time I don't want to give my wife whiplash while driving, so I don't want to just pop the clutch out and back in. I realize there is a sweet spot there that should give smooth acceleration, so with that said where do find that spot normally?

Finally other than in first gear do you tend to push in the gas while letting off the clutch, or do you wait for the clutch to be fully engaged and then push on the gas?

I know these questions sound noobish, but in high school when I learned to drive a stick no one got that in depth so I just did what gave the smoothest ride at the time with the best acceleration I could pull without thinking about the mechanical repercussions. Now that I am older and have a car that I love, I want to make sure I am doing it "right".

 

[bykeryder4life]

learn how to rev match. I shift at 3-4k cruising and learned how to time it so I push the gas just that little bit as the clutch is engaging and make it smooth so i can just keep pushing the gas and smoothly continue acceleration. this clutch is touchy so it takes time and patience to get the timing between your feet and your shift speed right. You should NEVER drive on the clutch like that, you are making it slip and heat up and eventually wear much faster= no good. get away from that habit

 

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

Definitely keep your foot off the pedal, although the SP3 has a dead pedal, so this should be a non-issue.
As far as what rpm you are shifting at, and how much gas to use, that is something you will have to learn by doing. Basically if it feels smooth, it is.
The rpms will obviously change according to how you are accelerating. Taking my time, leisurely going through the gears, I shift at about 2700 or so. Accelerating briskly but smoothly, it is more like 4000. Flat out in my car is about 5500. The first two are obviously part throttle situations and the rpms vary according to the situation. You are correct in that you shouldn't ride the clutch more than is absolutely necessary if you want to limit wear on it. Just drive the thing and pay attention to the tach and speedo both so you can start to learn "at this speed upshifting I need to drop the rpms this much to make a smooth shift" or "at this speed downshifting I need to raise the rpms this much to make a smooth shift". If you just pay attention to what the car is telling you, it will become second nature.

 

[Falconx84]

replacing the rear motor mount will help smooth out shifts to get rid of the "whiplash effect" -- essentially, it takes out a lot of the motors movement which is what gives that effect.

Also, I found that reving higher before shifting tends to smooth things out as well, couldn't tell you why, but it seemed to make a difference

 

[Betelgeuse]

Like mlc said practice makes perfect and almost everyone would agree riding the clutch is not a good habit. I like the 3-4 k shiftpoints for everyday driving as well.

Also pay attention to your seating position, it's one of those things that seem to be overlooked by many. But really, there's no 'right' shift point as long as the clutch work is correct.

 

[ChazSpeed]

I meant to say that I sit a little longer on the clutch in the transition first to second (not 2nd to 3rd) due to the wheel hop.

Most of my shifting is pretty smooth and I killed my habit of keeping my foot barely on the clutch.

I am more concerned about the speed at which I take my foot off the clutch. Currently on most shifts I tend to ease it off while giving it some gas (matching RPM basically) but I do it at the same time. I usually let of the gas when pushing the clutch in, and accelerate when letting off the clutch.

I just wanted to know if I should be pushing in the clutch and letting it come back out without ever being on the gas as I figure you burn the clutch by partially engaging while reving the engine. Or is it just when you rev it too much?

 

[Betelgeuse]

I meant to say that I sit a little longer on the clutch in the transition first to second (not 2nd to 3rd) due to the wheel hop.

Most of my shifting is pretty smooth and I killed my habit of keeping my foot barely on the clutch.

I am more concerned about the speed at which I take my foot off the clutch. Currently on most shifts I tend to ease it off while giving it some gas (matching RPM basically) but I do it at the same time. I usually let of the gas when pushing the clutch in, and accelerate when letting off the clutch.

I just wanted to know if I should be pushing in the clutch and letting it come back out without ever being on the gas as I figure you burn the clutch by partially engaging while reving the engine. Or is it just when you rev it too much?

Well to get a smooth transition, IMO, there usually has to be some overlap unless the gears and speed are all matched perfectly (which isn't always the case). So yeah easing off the clutch should be just fine.

In some situations, like when accelerating quickly and speed shifting you can let of the clutch completely and then get on the gas without any overlap. But in the majority of situations (esp. in heavier traffic), there will be some overlap.

 

[nate0123]

you shouldn't engage the clutch without any throttle - that's no good

 

[blkMs3th]

you shouldn't engage the clutch without any throttle - that's no good

how do you start the car moving from a dead stop?

 

[Rotary_Powered]

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123661588
Read up

 

[justanothermp5]

idk how u guys drive a stick, but when i come to a stop light i down shift to every gear and then i put it in neutral when i come to a stop
sometimes i leave it in first and just have the clutch in the whole time, eitherway it doesnt really affect ur clutch that MUCH.
i dont even use the dead pedal, i have no idea why its there, i keep my foot on or right above the clutch the WHOLE time im driving, idk why but its worked so far and after 200,000 i just got a new clutch in november of last year

 

[chuyler1]

You should at the very least, lift your foot completely off the clutch between shifting. From 1-2 and 2-3 I often hover my foot over the pedal since it is such a short amount of time between shifts.

You should not be hammering down the throttle while your foot is still on the clutch. Use a small amount of gas to keep the revs "matched" but until your foot is off the clutch you shouldn't be giving it more gas.

Another tip is to watch the tach with regards to the whiplash effect you are experiencing. Which way is the needle going as the car bucks? If it jumps down (high-to-low) you need to wait a little longer before letting the clutch out. If it jumps up, you aren't shifting fast enough and you need to compensate by giving a little gas to match revs before you let the clutch out.

I find the first case above occurs when you want to shift fast but you aren't shifting close enough to redline. The revs simply don't drop fast enough in the mid range of this engine so you end up using the clutch to slow the engine down as you are letting it out. This leads to a choppy shift. The trick is to just wait a moment before letting out the clutch. Or you can run it to redline and shift real quick. I guess in short, leisurely driving requires leisurely shifting whereas aggressive driving to redline requires agressive shifting.

 

[Betelgeuse]

Here's another good source for info:

www.standardshift.com

 

[Betelgeuse]

idk how u guys drive a stick, but when i come to a stop light i down shift to every gear and then i put it in neutral when i come to a stop
sometimes i leave it in first and just have the clutch in the whole time, eitherway it doesnt really affect ur clutch that MUCH.
i dont even use the dead pedal, i have no idea why its there, i keep my foot on or right above the clutch the WHOLE time im driving, idk why but its worked so far and after 200,000 i just got a new clutch in november of last year

Well if you're hovering over but not actually engaging the clutch enough to ride it then there's no harm done which seems to be how you drive. My friend drives the same way, foot always over the clutch. Some people ride it without knowing it though and that's probably why it's discouraged. Also it is said that holding it in while stopped can lead to early throwout bearing failure, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.

I use the dead pedal all the time. I've learned to read the stop lights so I'm usually ready to go before they change. Sometimes I get caught in neutral but I'm usually quick enough off the line that's it's not a bother.

 

[ChazSpeed]

I appreciate the input!

From what I can tell I am shifting in a fairly standard way. I think my truck clutch wore out due to me leaving my foot on the clutch (barely, but enough to have a dead spot in it at the start) and driving 120+ miles per day

I usually shift fairly smoothly but I was worrying about that 1st - 2nd shift because I would want to do the redline shift, but the loss of traction at the high RPM would slow me down when merging into high speed traffic so I ease that clutch up while matching the gas (probably about twice as long as the 2nd-3rd shift), and in my head I am picturing the clutch getting worn down.

 

[Rotary_Powered]

You should at the very least, lift your foot completely off the clutch between shifting. From 1-2 and 2-3 I often hover my foot over the pedal since it is such a short amount of time between shifts.

You should not be hammering down the throttle while your foot is still on the clutch. Use a small amount of gas to keep the revs "matched" but until your foot is off the clutch you shouldn't be giving it more gas.

You mean clutch in shift to neutral, release, press again, and then put into gear (aka double clutch)? I don't think there any benefits over regular shifting.

 

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

You mean clutch in shift to neutral, release, press again, and then put into gear (aka double clutch)? I don't think there any benefits over regular shifting.

I don't think he's talking about double clutching. I think he's basically saying finish one shift before you start the next one. He should be letting the clutch all the way up well before the rpms are high enough to need to shift again.

 

[chuyler1]

I wasn't talking about double clutching. Mid_Life had it right. You should engage the gear fully (aka foot off the clutch) before you drop the hammer on the gas pedal. It's OK for a little slipage for smoothing things out but if the tach climbs more than 1KRPM with your foot still on the clutch you're shaving miles off your clutch a little at a time.

 

[driver]

Excessive slipping of the cluth will wear it out sooner. Plus, the smell of a burning clutch is not desirable. When upshifting, it depends on how you are driving. On agressive runs the shifts would be much quicker, but smooth none the less. The clutch and shift action is done with perfect timing. Don't be lazy and shift too slowly or you'll miss shift.
In around town driving, 1st through 3rd are the usual gears you will be in. The shifts will be not as smooth, but if you engage the clutch without adding too much gas at the same time it will be smoother. There are not specific revs to recommend, it's about feeling your car and knowing when to shift in certain driving conditions.
Double clutching is fun and a great technique to learn, but keep it for downshifts only.

 

[nate0123]

Double clutching is fun and a great technique to learn, but keep it for downshifts only.

I'm not sure I follow. What's so great about it? You can rev-match for downshifts without pressing the clutch twice, so why would you do anything else?