Downshifting....

[DeputySherif]

I am a newb. at driving stick so I was wondering what was the correct method to properly downshift. I have read online that you can just slowly let off the clutch, but to me, that seems like it would wear the clutch REAL fast. Another method I read, was to blip the RPMs right before you begin to let off the clutch. This to me, seems the more appropriate approach however, if you did blip the GAS a bit, would you have to double clutch(clutch in to disengage to neutral, and then blip the RPMs, and then apply the clutch again to engage in the lower gear).

Hopefully this makes some sense, please any help would greatly be appreciated!

 

[Aricjm15]

no
on most modern cars the syncro's are strong enough and well engineered enough that all you pretty much have to do is push in the clutch and drop it down a gear, bringing up the RPM alittle will just make it a more smooth transition, you could double clutch but it would do you no good as the syncro's are already doing all that work for you

 

[DeputySherif]

I figured you didnt have to double clutch, however, if you just downshift and let off the clutch....A) you either really jerk forward and put strain on the engine or B) you slowly let off and its a smooth transition.

My question then is....is slowly letting off the clutch to downshift a proper method or does it kill the clutch's longetivity (sp).

 

[DistantTea]

Its a little bit of an area of debate. If you are just daily driving around then by all means just let go of the clutch. Rev matching is not neccessary... its just really nice to do.

I rev match every downshift unless I'm really tired and just trying to get home.. in those cases I don't even downshift and just deal with it.

Proper rev matching does not have to be double clutching. Just push in the clutch, rev the car to where its going to end up after the shift and then let out the clutch. I do sequential downshifts for racing so thats what I practice. So coming from 60 to 20 on a normal curve I:

Start braking
Clutch in
Blip to next rpm for next lowest gear with the side of my foot
Clutch out

I'll do that down the chain from 5th to 2nd (three shifts) for the corner. Practicing that way builds muscle memory and since you are shifting at the same point on every gear finding your blip becomes second nature and is equally timed.

But really when you slow down enough you can just downshift. It won't tear up your clutch. Just don't drag the clutch for 5 seconds. Even a lazy shift should only have a second or so of clutch in out time.

 

[Aricjm15]

it could, but it wouldnt be anything near as bad as doing constant burnouts and such.
I would say let off somewhat slowly bringing up your RPM's at the same time to not get the jerking motion, just dont bring up the RPMs so much that you rocket forward when you are trying to use the engine to slow your car down

 

[DeputySherif]

Thank you DistantTea, that helps alot. Still curious though, if I were to just let of the clutch, wouldnt I jerk forward a bit?

Once again, Thank you for that writeup, its help alot!

 

[jersey_emt]

Thank you DistantTea, that helps alot. Still curious though, if I were to just let of the clutch, wouldnt I jerk forward a bit?

Once again, Thank you for that writeup, its help alot!

Yup. You'd be jerked fairly violentely if you just dump the clutch when downshifting.

 

[cbcbd]

Thank you DistantTea, that helps alot. Still curious though, if I were to just let of the clutch, wouldnt I jerk forward a bit?

Once again, Thank you for that writeup, its help alot!

If you are asking about letting off the clutch using DistantTeas method (heel-toe downshifting):

when you rev-match to downshift you still let out the clutch with a little bit of delay, you wouldn't just dump it. You'd also be giving some gas too, just so you wouldn't get a jerk. So after some practice you should be able to do this without jerking around.

 

[Rush]

.. Now you've all got me thinkin' about my method of downshifting.

I've had a manual car before, and know how to drive one, but this is only the second manual I've owned -- and it's been awhile .. I know, s'very sad, isn't it?

Anyhoo, I understand what Deputy is saying as far as the whole 'jerking forward' thing is concerned. When I first got my MSP, I wasn't really thinking about what I was doing -- went to downshift to slow down for a red light, and just let off the clutch. I was almost launched over my dashboard, the car jumped so bad.

Now that my MSP is 'broken in', it's not half as bad .. But what I usually do, when it comes to downshifting, is this:

1. Push in clutch and disengage car from higher gear.
2. With clutch still in, shift to lower gear.
3. Just release the clutch -- EXCEPT that I hesitate for a moment at that one spot when you can feel the car hopping into gear, when it would normally jerk.

So I guess this is my own personal method of downshifting. I don't rev up the RPMs or anything .. I just feel the clutch to know when it would jerk, and ease it into the gear for that split second.

I have no idea if it's the 'right way' .. but, there you go!

 

[mrpopnfresh]

I have to agree with what is being said so far. Another tip is to listen to when your RPM's are going down, then just ease off the clutch. You won't be dumping all the torque on the tranny, therefore you won't jerk forward.

 

[SpicyRay]

i usually clutch in-gear-little gas-clutch out for a smooth downshift if im going to engine brake, i dunno if thats "rev-matching" or not, but it works.

 

[mrpopnfresh]

Yeah, that's pretty much rev matching.

 

[cbcbd]

On regular stops I never downshift, I prefer to wear out my brake pads instead. Actually, if I'm about to stop anyway (at a light), I usually just ride out whatever gear I'm in until it reaches 1000rpm, and then put it in neutral.

But in turns it's a different story

 

[jdb]

This is my first post. Normally I just read stuff and get info if it is helpful, but I coulldn't resist on this one. Ever since I started crewing for an SCCA race team I have started to learn the proper way to drive (I don't mean drive as in street race, or drag race, or some junk like that - I mean road racing style of driving).

The only proper way to downshift is to heel-toe. It does not wear down the clutch, it makes for smoother driving, and it puts the car and engine in sync for powering out a turn. It takes time to learn how to do it properly and if done correctly, passengers in your car should not even notice that you have downshifted at all (other the engine noise) because there should not be ANY jumping forward. It is way too hard to explain without actually being in a car, or without a visual of some sort, but it involves rolling your right foot off of the brake pedal (while maintaining pressure on the brakes) in order to rev the engine (the so-called blip) by slightly pressing on the gas pedal. It works best, and is really only effective, during really hard braking going into a turn (if you aren't turning it just feels cool).

I don't mean to sound preachy about this, but now that I am able to heel-toe in my car I feel strongly that everyone should learn how to do it in theirs - it will completely change the way you drive your car.

Watch some SPEED channel road racing, especially the in-car shots and listen to them slow for hard corners and you will see/hear what I mean.

 

[jersey_emt]

This is my first post. Normally I just read stuff and get info if it is helpful, but I coulldn't resist on this one. Ever since I started crewing for an SCCA race team I have started to learn the proper way to drive (I don't mean drive as in street race, or drag race, or some junk like that - I mean road racing style of driving).

The only proper way to downshift is to heel-toe. It does not wear down the clutch, it makes for smoother driving, and it puts the car and engine in sync for powering out a turn. It takes time to learn how to do it properly and if done correctly, passengers in your car should not even notice that you have downshifted at all (other the engine noise) because there should not be ANY jumping forward. It is way too hard to explain without actually being in a car, or without a visual of some sort, but it involves rolling your right foot off of the brake pedal (while maintaining pressure on the brakes) in order to rev the engine (the so-called blip) by slightly pressing on the gas pedal. It works best, and is really only effective, during really hard braking going into a turn (if you aren't turning it just feels cool).

I don't mean to sound preachy about this, but now that I am able to heel-toe in my car I feel strongly that everyone should learn how to do it in theirs - it will completely change the way you drive your car.

Watch some SPEED channel road racing, especially the in-car shots and listen to them slow for hard corners and you will see/hear what I mean.

About heel-and-toe...I know that if you get the revs matched 100% EXACTLY right, you could even dump the clutch and it would be smooth as silk. I've only been able to do this once. I can do a smooth downshift by:

(Left foot) Brake and hold it
(Right foot) Clutch in and hold it
Move shifter to lower gear
(Left foot) Blip throttle and hold it
Slowly let out clutch while sliding foot from brake &gas to gas pedal alone

Is this proper heel-toe technique? Or do I need to practice rev-matching more so I can release the clutch much faster? It feels smooth, and it puts me in the right gear. Plus, it all happens in about 1 second.

I ask this because, everyone says that it takes a LOT of practice to get right. But I was able to do this after only a few minutes of practicing...and I almost always get the revs within 100-250 RPM of the correct speed. Is there something I'm doing wrong ('cheating' somehow?)

 

[Ryno]

Letting the clutch out fast isnt hard on the clutch really, just harder on the rest of the driveline (tranny, halfshafts, all that good stuff). Slowly letting it out will cause more slippage and therefore more wear, but it's nothing significant. Just clutch, shift, let it out to close to the sticking point, give 'er a blip, and away you go.

 

[DistantTea]

Thats not a proper technique because it won't result in faster lap times

I learned my technique from a Porsche GTS driver and I do it all the time purely for practice.

If you are approaching a stop you don't have to downshift... its actually much nicer on your car if you just take it out of gear into neutral and use just your brakes. Why add all that extra wear into the equation unless you are practicing like me.

There are multiple ways to Heel toe, mine just fits the pedal configuration for this car (and also porsche's for some reason). An evo requires a swing over with your heel... go figure.

Brake
Clutch in
Tranny in Neutral
Putting Enthasis on your braking tip your foot to the right to blip the throttle (as a note in our car its easier to go higher than needed by a couple hundred RPMs and catch it on the way down as you-)
Tranny into the next lowest gear
once you clear the gate you start letting out the clutch.

Note: Even though this sounds like 5 steps its actually only two motions - one putting the clutch in and taking it out of gear, the next blipping the throttle while putting the next gear in and letting off the clutch.

It takes alot of practice, but anyone in the Cincy Dayton area is more than welcome to come get trained on how our car does it.

 

[mdaj]

$0.02- Normally I do not down shift. I just take it out of gear and throw it in neutral and cruise to my stop. If I do downshift I let off the clutch while easing on the gas as to not have that jerking sensation.

 

[AZDriftR]

(Left foot) Brake and hold it
(Right foot) Clutch in and hold it
Move shifter to lower gear
(Left foot) Blip throttle and hold it
Slowly let out clutch while sliding foot from brake &gas to gas pedal alone

Is there something I'm doing wrong ('cheating' somehow?)

other than the fact your using the wrong feet on the wrong pedals: it should be
(right foot) Brake and hold it
(left foot) Clutch in and hold it
Move shifter to lower gear
(right foot) slid heel of brake while retaining pressure with the ball of foot give the Gas a quick jab matching revs with heel, to bring up revs takes time to learn how to do quickly and effeciantly
then u should be able to just dump the clutch
thats how i was tot and pretty much how ever one else posted too.

 

[Blue me]

Hey, go easy! He drives on the left side of the street.

what ever you do, you gotta match rpm's!
As for stopping: listen to distantTea and mdaj, you don't need to downshift. i would rather buy new brakes than get a new a clutch.