Downshifting and driving habits...

[shaolin]

Now, through getting government licenses for military vehicles, different driving schools I've attended, and through my father, I've learned that is best to downshift in conjunction with braking when slowing down. I've seen friends however just go into N, and brake only...(I was taught that it's not good to be rolling in N because you are no longer in control of the car). It seems easier to stop the car with my method, but I've heard it is hard on the transmission and clutch.

IMO, it would only be hard on the car, if you downshift without braking, or at too high of RPM's, but alot of people tend to argue against me and what the habits I've learned in formal driving schools.

For example: I'm going 45 in say, 4th gear, at about 3K RPM. getting ready to stop, I brake until about 38-40 (guesstimate, I do it when I feel the timing is right), engage the clutch go into 3rd, disengage, RPM's jump back to around 3K RPM, and continue down to 2nd gear, and to a stop.

Granted some of these figures are probably off, but I do it with feeling to the car more than staring at my dash. This is what I've been taught.

My question to the board is how do you guys do this? Do you do neutral rolls, or downshift like me? Maybe downshift with little braking as I've seen alot of people do, which seems to be real hard on the car, but easy on brakes lol. Just throwing this out there as a discussion and food for thought...

 

[jflo]

i'm addicted to heel-and-toe downshifting...can't stop it for some reason. sometimes i'll do what you do and just stick it into the lower gear while i'm slowing down, most of the time i'll just stay in the gear until i'm @ around 1.5K RPMs and just coast. that's pretty much it for me...i think you're not supposed to coast down a hill while in neutral because if you start to lose control, you won't have engine power to get your traction back.

 

[ONRAILS]

I usually do a neutral roll if I am approaching a red light. If it's other than that, I downshift as you do. Not sure what affect this has on the transmission, but it would be interesting to hear from the "experts".

 

[shaolin]

Wow interesting, I know the heel to toe method, but I usually only use it during hard driving through corners...maybe I'll try it when approaching a light or something...is it easier to rev match this way?

 

[jflo]

sometimes...if i'm out of it i don't really pay attention and just let the car do its thing while i heel-toe. it sets the engine up for the next gear, but it's not really needed if you're doing light breaking to stop at a light. but it helps let's say if a light just turned red and you need to stop right away, i heel-toe to 2nd and help the car slow down without having to have the tires spinning from just directly shifting into 2nd gear. i did that once in the miata, the tranny was not happy.

 

[RuggedMazda]

Well, I do both. Most of the time I do the neutral & brake stop, but when I'm "racing around" I do use my tranny & brakes ( I've heard it referred to as "engine braking" ). I can't even tell you what speeds I do this, because I also feel my way through the gears as I brake.
Something to think about is would you rather replace your brake pads or at worst your brakes or would you rather replace your tranny ? This is why when I'm just cruising around I just use my brakes, they are there for a reason.

 

[uclap5]

what it sounds like you are doing isnt the greatest method. if you are going to downshift you should rev match. if you dont as you said, it "jumps" up to what it should be at, and in my opnion that action is none-too-good for the engine.

the only thing downshifting (whith rev matching) will do is the same thing that proper upshifting will do which is normal wear on the tranny.

 

[oldzoomer]

I was taught and have read several well stated arguments that said you are not supposed to use the engine for braking. The wear and tear on the engine is more expensive than the wear and tear on the brakes.
*what-ever*
I totally ignore the above. I drove my 1991 Protege for over 130k miles and due to the great engine and good transmission found that using the engine for braking allowed me to:
- hear the sweet sound of the 1.8 DOHC 4-banger (I still think it sounds a heck of a lot sweeter than the MSP 2 liter)
- maintain greater control of the car due to always having the engine in the sweet spot of the powerband and in the right gear for accelerating
- keep a constant acceleration and deceleration speed during rush hour driving
- annoy the heck out of people by using engine breaking to coast to a stop without ever touching the brakes
- give my mind and reflexes something to do
- keep my speed to a reasonable limit on my steep and long driveway and the steep hill leading to my house (without standing on the brakes)

I never burnt out a clutch and the car never burned oil or had any engine problems so I obviously wasn't hurting anything.
I think the car may have had the original rotors and 2nd set of pads on it when I got rid of it.
It just felt right to use the gears for decelerating.

I'm not sure how I'm going to drive the MSP. The engine braking doesn't seem to be quite as good and I'm not sure if increasing the revs when downshifting is going to harm the turbo.
Any thoughts?

 

[pluto316]

I just put it into to N cause I am OH SO LAZY. (Also, it's smoother in my opinion.)

 

[alexlitov]

I also downshift and I brake. The last time when I didn't downshifted I locked up all 4 wheels and smashed into a mustang.....downshift+braking = shortest distance to stop

 

[RuggedMazda]

I try heel-toe from time to time, but I think it's my 12'' foot size that makes it harder for me. What I do a lot is double clutch right before I hit a turn, but I don't really finish it of with the heel-toe.
Do any of you guys know of or know how to double clutch to accelerate faster? I heard somewhere that this can be done, but I don't understand it. I always thought double clutch was only effective when cornering, because it keeps the tranny at the same or close to the same speed as the crank. Or something like that.....

 

[MSBlueP]

I heel -and- toe from time to time.. just for fun..

but I usually double clutch it when I downshift..

sort of a habit.. can't stop doing it. lol

 

[pluto316]

I try heel-toe from time to time, but I think it's my 12'' foot size that makes it harder for me. What I do a lot is double clutch right before I hit a turn, but I don't really finish it of with the heel-toe.
Do any of you guys know of or know how to double clutch to accelerate faster? I heard somewhere that this can be done, but I don't understand it. I always thought double clutch was only effective when cornering, because it keeps the tranny at the same or close to the same speed as the crank. Or something like that.....

You're thinking of the Fast and the Furious. I bet you GRANNY-SHIFT!!


OMG!!

 

[UberCaff]

Downshift + brake = win

 

[SFC01v2]

If you're braking hard enough you will out-brake the engine at all speeds.

If you want to be the most mechanically sympathetic on your tranny (once you attain the level of grand master) clutchless shifting is for you! Get it right and you are smoooooth as. But get it wrong and OMG! Clutchless upshifts are slow with a synchro 'box though, that is one downside.

Another benefit when spirited driving and clutchless downshifting - you can left foot brake!

 

[uclap5]

heel toe is not to get maximum breaking power, its so you are in the correct gear to exit the turn as fast as posible, you dont want to be bogging down as you exit a turn.

 

[jflo]

yeah...heel-and-toe is supposed to help when you're going around a turn so that your engine is in the higher rev range so that once you get out of that turn you can accelerate faster.

but when slowing down, i just match revs w/ heel-toe just because it makes me feel good that i'm playing with my car.

 

[shaolin]

yeah, I don't just totally slam it into a lower gear and let it rev real high to slow down, I use it in conjunction with braking. I think it revs to about 2300-2500 RPM when I do it...I was out earlier trying the rev matching heel to toe method when I went to the store, but I think it takes more practice than I thought. Not the same as exiting a corner.

Hmm, so I'm still not real sure what's the best method on this type of car, maybe someone should email the MSP engineers haha...

 

[lasermp5]

I do exactly as shaolin describes in his first post. Just kind of found out what worked for me on my own....

 

[jred321]

can anybody else not bend enough to reach both gas and brake at the same time to heel-toe? i try while just sitting there and i can't really do it