Downpipe/oh gawd...

Drumraven12

Member
:
2008 speed3
yes yes I am sure there have been many post about dp and here is another..

I have AEM intake PG inlet GHL catback SU test pipe turbo smart bpv (recirc) and hypertech tune and next week fmic so question:

Which dp should I consider ?
Will a dp cause my turbo to smoke?
Is a cel innevitable with a dp?
Some dp can cost 600+ some run under 300 is there alot of diffrence in "steel pipes"?
Will my hypertech tune "work" with this mod?
Is it time for +cold plugs?

Let me say I appreciate input and help some of you have already provided and thanks in advance again.
 
Have you searched the numerous threads covering each of your questions? The consensus of the many opinions and shared facts and experience from a number of knowledgeable people is a lot better than starting yet another thread covering these issues all over again.

Not trying to be a problem, just getting tired of reposting the same stuff or looking up threads for someone else.

Try search and then hit us up with your follow up questions.
 
my bad I guess.... I did not find anything initially

questions tend to be or only become relevent when each person hits a certian stage I will look back and see what I can find wasnt sure how to place each of those questions to find a "lump" answer.

Like I have said and admitted before I am nerveous and very green about modding and the fear of "boom boom" tends to grip me everytime a new mod comes up so my probbing is looking for giant red flags or "must have advice" someone may have.

Thanks
 
There's no certainty that any one mod will make your engine go byebye. but what might help is googling in such a way that you add "mazdas247" in with your queery

For example: "mazdas247" with "downpipe" will probably get you better results than using the search feature on this forum

As for what you're considering, I might suggest that you take a good look at your use for this platform and really think about the addition of more and more power. If this is an all out race car (yet still gonna be fwd) then by all means. If you think that more power is just gonna make you go faster, realize you're probably only gonna be doing it after you're well into your higher gears (once again the acronyms fwd and ftl come to mind)

Having said that if you want a quick answer a downpipe has produced good results in power gain, but for some have left a mess of smoke or total destruction. Most will say get your monitoring devices up to par because your boost is going to creep up. Others will say you'll need to upgrade you fuel pump to compensate, etc etc.

And as far as I know the learning and adjusting process of the hypertech is pretty good with many bolt ons. Check out the ht threads or the vendor and read all the info chris has posted, its good stuff

But in closing all I can really say is "you've got to pay to play"
 
I found several post about the downpipe and my question remains which brand is suggested with the mods I posted? or can I get personal reviews from people using them? I am leaning towards the turboxs

With the post I found most of them were very old has there been any deffinate findings on dp and smoking turbos or is it understood if you get a dp you must get a catch can?
 
There's no certainty that any one mod will make your engine go byebye. but what might help is googling in such a way that you add "mazdas247" in with your queery

For example: "mazdas247" with "downpipe" will probably get you better results than using the search feature on this forum

As for what you're considering, I might suggest that you take a good look at your use for this platform and really think about the addition of more and more power. If this is an all out race car (yet still gonna be fwd) then by all means. If you think that more power is just gonna make you go faster, realize you're probably only gonna be doing it after you're well into your higher gears (once again the acronyms fwd and ftl come to mind)

Having said that if you want a quick answer a downpipe has produced good results in power gain, but for some have left a mess of smoke or total destruction. Most will say get your monitoring devices up to par because your boost is going to creep up. Others will say you'll need to upgrade you fuel pump to compensate, etc etc.

And as far as I know the learning and adjusting process of the hypertech is pretty good with many bolt ons. Check out the ht threads or the vendor and read all the info chris has posted, its good stuff

But in closing all I can really say is "you've got to pay to play"

Thank you..
and you are correct I am not trying to make a "beast" but I have had a lot of fun and good experience with the mods I have and in my mind I was going to stop with just the fmic but since I have the test pipe and catback I thought why not go full catless with a dp and be done with it..... well done with performance mods next is interior and stereo as well as suspension.

I guess I feel lucky that so far I have had no problems no hicups and the car runs better than it ever has..... in fact it seems to run better with time does the hypertech adjust on its own?? sounds silly but it seems the longer I run the mods the smoother it gets.

Thank you for the advice on searching for forum post lastnight I was swimming through a ton of them =)

Guess it sounds like with the dp it can be hit or miss and without any real "solid" info on if the dp is to blame I can just skip it and be happy.
 
So if I raise the boost pressure to 25psi, and the engine explodes, I can tell mazda that it was the motor that couldn't handle it so they should get me a new one for free?
 
With downpipe, OP will be fully bolted. He's doing it pretty quickly, it seems, without time to evaluate the effect of each mod. I think that is a mistake. When too many mods are added in quick sequence or all at one time, and then a problem arises, it's damn difficult to figure out what is going on and to straighten things out. Getting in a hurry is a sure way to go zoom, zoom, boom.

I question the need for the CBE in OP's mods, unless it was just for sound effects, as the stock CBE flows so exceedingly well, even up to the maximum flow rate of the stock turbo.

He has a good intake and a reliable BPV running recirc as is needed (although stock BPV may actually work better, especially with his Hypertech flash). He's putting an FMIC on now. Not sure why he'd doing that before addressing the exhaust side a bit better, but I have no quarrel with that provided he knows that it does not make more power, merely allowing him to keep the power he builds before approaching heat soak, while giving up some spool up time and making some turbo lag due to the longer tubes.

Now as to the DP. The reason I held back and asked OP to read a bit (seems like he has not really read deeply into the threads) is that this is a very controversial subject with a lot of risks and benefits to weigh against each other. DP is not an easy install on this engine, even for those who are in the business of doing performance exhaust work. If he is concerned about CEL's he should probably stay away from catless, as they probably will come. If he is in a state that inspects, he clearly should stay away from the catless dp. The difference in pricing is largely, but not totally due to whether the dp has a cat. Those with cats cost more. Also some are one piece all the way to the CBE. They cost more. He already has a test/race pipe.

If he is in a state that does not test for emissions and he is prepared for the other side effects of running catless, then the catless dp will build more power and is a lot cheaper, even with the best construction. The TurboXS is a high quality piece. I got that just because both the dp and rp have good flex joints that make installation a bit easier and reduce the chances of vibration or mechanical noise from the dp bumping against anything under the car as the engine shifts on its mounts during WOT.

Installation is not for the meek and does require patience.

OP has a Hypertech flash. He can read and remove CEL's with its programmer, so I'm not sure what his worry is. The only CEL the catless dp should throw is from the rear O2 sensor trying to say "WTF happened to the primary cat?"

My concern for OP is that he will be fully bolted and I don't see that he has any type of engine monitoring equipment. He needs at a minimum a good manual vacuum/boost gauge that goes up to +25, and some way to check AFR's. Fully bolted, he should consider some type of data logging monitoring equipment such as Dash Hawk and take the time to learn how to set it up and read and understand the data.

The dp will raise boost about 2 psi. His Hypertech flash is going to let him see 18-19 psi, which is just a tad bit more than a catless dp/rp combo together would produce on the stock tune, but the flash will smooth out things and reduce the somewhat nasty quick spikes to 21-22 psi I was seeing running catless before the flash.

He's going too be dangerously close to increasing flow through of the engine from intake to exhaust in a way that maxes out the ability of his turob wastegate to bleed off excessive boost. He may encounter boost creep, a dangerous situaiton in which boost hits target fairly early in the power band and rather than holding, continues to climb above 18-19 psi as rpm increases. If that condition exists, he will have to find a way to either open up the wastegate (expensive removal of the turbo, opening up the wastegate port by enlarging the port and installing a bigger flapper), or he will have to reduce flow by adding restriction on the exhaust side, perhaps going to a high flow cat or even going back to his stock secondary cat in place of his test pipe. Otherwise I would not expect his engine to last long.

Also, some (a significant number) of owners here seem to run into fuel pressure problems when modding at the level OP seeks. He'd be wise to monitor that as well and might have a car that needs a fuel pump upgrade.

Also, running catless dp/rp will have some perhaps unexpected side effects. The exhaust will smell bad. Those of us who grew up in the era before catalytic converters and built and raced high performance cars know what raw, rich uncatted exhaust fumes smell like and we are used to it. If not, he will probably find that it is necessary to run his AC in "recirc" mode and not to spend too much time with the windows down at low speed. lol.

More importantly, however, runnign catless dp/rp will really make the exhaust quite loud and perhaps unpleasant, It may introduce headache producing drone at around 2,500 rpm. I had to actually add a 3 inch high flow straight through design reso (Vibrant UltraQuiet) welded into the middle of my race pipe to tone down the horrible drone.

I don't think there is any good evidence that adding a dp, either catted or not, will increase the risk of turbo smoking beyond the fact that without cats in the exhaust system, thingh that would have been vaporized by the heat of the cats, may end up coming downstream and out the tail pipe. That goes with the territory.

All in all, I find that running the TurboXS dp/rp combo with a good intake and the Hypertech flash is a very compatable and highly satisfactory way to build safe power. If I were to add an FMIC, I'm afraid that I would be pushed into boost creep.

But remember one thing. These cars (mostly due to the high pressure direct fuel injection) defy conventional thinking about mod compatability. Each car seems to have a mind of its own and identical cars with the same mods seem to frequently behave differently.
 
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So if I raise the boost pressure to 25psi, and the engine explodes, I can tell mazda that it was the motor that couldn't handle it so they should get me a new one for free?

Oh hell no.... I meant that a DP won't cause the turbo to smoke. It smokes just fine on it's own. Might make the smoke more visible but it won't be the cause.
 
With downpipe, OP will be fully bolted. He's doing it pretty quickly, it seems, without time to evaluate the effect of each mod. I think that is a mistake. When too many mods are added in quick sequence or all at one time, and then a problem arises, it's damn difficult to figure out what is going on and to straighten things out. Getting in a hurry is a sure way to go zoom, zoom, boom.

I question the need for the CBE in OP's mods, unless it was just for sound effects, as the stock CBE flows so exceedingly well, even up to the maximum flow rate of the stock turbo.

He has a good intake and a reliable BPV running recirc as is needed (although stock BPV may actually work better, especially with his Hypertech flash). He's putting an FMIC on now. Not sure why he'd doing that before addressing the exhaust side a bit better, but I have no quarrel with that provided he knows that it does not make more power, merely allowing him to keep the power he builds before approaching heat soak, while giving up some spool up time and making some turbo lag due to the longer tubes.

Now as to the DP. The reason I held back and asked OP to read a bit (seems like he has not really read deeply into the threads) is that this is a very controversial subject with a lot of risks and benefits to weigh against each other. DP is not an easy install on this engine, even for those who are in the business of doing performance exhaust work. If he is concerned about CEL's he should probably stay away from catless, as they probably will come. If he is in a state that inspects, he clearly should stay away from the catless dp. The difference in pricing is largely, but not totally due to whether the dp has a cat. Those with cats cost more. Also some are one piece all the way to the CBE. They cost more. He already has a test/race pipe.

If he is in a state that does not test for emissions and he is prepared for the other side effects of running catless, then the catless dp will build more power and is a lot cheaper, even with the best construction. The TurboXS is a high quality piece. I got that just because both the dp and rp have good flex joints that make installation a bit easier and reduce the chances of vibration or mechanical noise from the dp bumping against anything under the car as the engine shifts on its mounts during WOT.

Installation is not for the meek and does require patience.

OP has a Hypertech flash. He can read and remove CEL's with its programmer, so I'm not sure what his worry is. The only CEL the catless dp should throw is from the rear O2 sensor trying to say "WTF happened to the primary cat?"

My concern for OP is that he will be fully bolted and I don't see that he has any type of engine monitoring equipment. He needs at a minimum a good manual vacuum/boost gauge that goes up to +25, and some way to check AFR's. Fully bolted, he should consider some type of data logging monitoring equipment such as Dash Hawk and take the time to learn how to set it up and read and understand the data.

The dp will raise boost about 2 psi. His Hypertech flash is going to let him see 18-19 psi, which is just a tad bit more than a catless dp/rp combo together would produce on the stock tune, but the flash will smooth out things and reduce the somewhat nasty quick spikes to 21-22 psi I was seeing running catless before the flash.

He's going too be dangerously close to increasing flow through of the engine from intake to exhaust in a way that maxes out the ability of his turob wastegate to bleed off excessive boost. He may encounter boost creep, a dangerous situaiton in which boost hits target fairly early in the power band and rather than holding, continues to climb above 18-19 psi as rpm increases. If that condition exists, he will have to find a way to either open up the wastegate (expensive removal of the turbo, opening up the wastegate port by enlarging the port and installing a bigger flapper), or he will have to reduce flow by adding restriction on the exhaust side, perhaps going to a high flow cat or even going back to his stock secondary cat in place of his test pipe. Otherwise I would not expect his engine to last long.

Also, some (a significant number) of owners here seem to run into fuel pressure problems when modding at the level OP seeks. He'd be wise to monitor that as well and might have a car that needs a fuel pump upgrade.

Also, running catless dp/rp will have some perhaps unexpected side effects. The exhaust will smell bad. Those of us who grew up in the era before catalytic converters and built and raced high performance cars know what raw, rich uncatted exhaust fumes smell like and we are used to it. If not, he will probably find that it is necessary to run his AC in "recirc" mode and not to spend too much time with the windows down at low speed. lol.

More importantly, however, runnign catless dp/rp will really make the exhaust quite loud and perhaps unpleasant, It may introduce headache producing drone at around 2,500 rpm. I had to actually add a 3 inch high flow straight through design reso (Vibrant UltraQuiet) welded into the middle of my race pipe to tone down the horrible drone.

I don't think there is any good evidence that adding a dp, either catted or not, will increase the risk of turbo smoking beyond the fact that without cats in the exhaust system, thingh that would have been vaporized by the heat of the cats, may end up coming downstream and out the tail pipe. That goes with the territory.

All in all, I find that running the TurboXS dp/rp combo with a good intake and the Hypertech flash is a very compatable and highly satisfactory way to build safe power. If I were to add an FMIC, I'm afraid that I would be pushed into boost creep.

But remember one thing. These cars (mostly due to the high pressure direct fuel injection) defy conventional thinking about mod compatability. Each car seems to have a mind of its own and identical cars with the same mods seem to frequently behave differently.

ok....

I have bought each mod I have individually except for the inlet and testpipe... how much time are you supposed to have before adding mods? Was just intake and bov for moths and I just added hypertech and inlet...

Yes I bought the catback for sound and appearance.....

I am buying the FMIC for heat soak I live in Florida....

"need" is a relative term....

I did read several threads and why are you addressing everyone else and not me??

I have to learn to be more direct with my questions so much is lost in translation on the internet but you did answer my questions.

All in all my basic question was with my mods is a dp a worthy and safe mod or not enough to gamble with the possible side effects. Since I am not trying to create a beast I will stick with my original plan and forget the dp and just finish up with the fmic.

I have a boost gauge and a dashhawk I did not list either in my mod list.... very new to the dashhawk

Thanks
 
I did not mean to offend you, Drumraven 12. Sorry if it came out that way. I'm trying to help. This board is for all of us and I tend to address responses to everybody. That's just something I frequently do. Some of us try to figure out problems when people put multiple mods on at or near the same time and it is very hard to do. It is best to make changes one at a time and give the changes time to make sure that they are working as intended and that no problems show up. Even simple changes that affect connections to vacuum lines and or to the intake tubing, either before or after the turbo can be very, very hard to trouble shoot if more than one mod is involved.

I don't want to discourage you from the dp mod. I'm just suggesting that it might be time to slow down a bit and not try to do it with or right after the FMIC until you see how that mod does for you and that you do not have any issues with it. Maybe you could get a little more familiar with the Dash Hawk and know how safe your present setup is and how you will be running with the FMIC (I'm on the Mississippi Coast and it's plenty hot here, but I haven't gone FMIC yet). FMIC can be a good mod if you keep the size of the core reasonable. I just felt it was going to push me into overboost since I already had the catless dp/rp.
 
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i just put a catless corksport dp on my car with a 02 extender bung and no cel for the past 1000 miles so im sure im not going to get one :) but i just got my turbo replaced and it wasnt because of the dp...at the time all i had was a test pipe and res. deletes and it was smoking...its the pcv valve thats at least what mazda told me...i have a ets tmic/cobb sri/stock bpv/corksport dp/cobb ap stage 2/ and denso 1 step colder plugs
 
I did not mean to offend you, Drumraven 12. Sorry if it came out that way. I'm trying to help. This board is for all of us and I tend to address responses to everybody. That's just something I frequently do. Some of us try to figure out problems when people put multiple mods on at or near the same time and it is very hard to do. It is best to make changes one at a time and give the changes time to make sure that they are working as intended and that no problems show up. Even simple changes that affect connections to vacuum lines and or to the intake tubing, either before or after the turbo can be very, very hard to trouble shoot if more than one mod is involved.

I don't want to discourage you from the dp mod. I'm just suggesting that it might be time to slow down a bit and not try to do it with or right after the FMIC until you see how that mod does for you and that you do not have any issues with it. Maybe you could get a little more familiar with the Dash Hawk and know how safe your present setup is and how you will be running with the FMIC (I'm on the Mississippi Coast and it's plenty hot here, but I haven't gone FMIC yet). FMIC can be a good mod if you keep the size of the core reasonable. I just felt it was going to push me into overboost since I already had the catless dp/rp.

Oh no sir not offended at all and forgive me if I sounded cross I certianly am not... you have been more than helpful to me on many forum post and I have noticed you have been very very clear and thurough for many people....

I just wanted to clear up any misconception on where my attitude was and what I was asking and it seemed I had annoyed you with my questions which is understandable.... again I will be the first to admit I am brand new to turbos and so I get "paranoid" with new things but at the same time really enjoy modding and messing around... I had set my goal for engine mods and will reach it with the fmic and was only contemplating colder plugs and dp with the dp being the one I was not sure on.

The engine managment that you speak of it something I only recently started working on and I should have asked more questions cause as you stated I should have worked on that on the front end....

Thanks again for everyones help and advice

blah my spelling!!!
 
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