Double Din- DNX8120 vs. AVIC-Z3 vs. AVIC-F90BT

[haveahotcarl]

STAY AWAY FROM THE F90!!!!!

I cannot stress this more! I work for a large regional company that sells Pioneer Premier and the AVIC-F Series is a HUGE flop. The software is ridiculously slow and we had a Pioneer rep in to do the latest update (about 2 weeks old) and still slow!

Start up time is about 90 seconds (no joke), touch response is slow (tap the screen, wait, wait, wait), and the ipod control is even worse. If you disconnect the ipod and reconnect it later the "VR" needs to update. Tap on ipod for a source, it starts playing but then locks you out of changing anything until the voice recognition updates (30sec for 2GB of songs). The list goes on. IMO the AVIC-F's were released too early and the bugs weren't worked out. The specs are amazing but performance is not.

Now, before you decide to flame the hell out of me, go try one out. You'll find I'm not making it up.

 

[Circuit]

lmfao you gotta be kidding. oh man... 100 times better? come on! that's just insane.

for the record, while my system might not be showcar worthy... I must say, it's pretty damn good. nothing stock from the original msp setup. upgraded kicker comp speakers throughout complete with separate amps for both the speakers and sub... and of course the aforementioned headunit. I'm no audiophile... but close. I've tested songs back to back on cd and 160k+mp3... no way in hell you can tell the difference. especially while driving... in a loud ass car like mine! lol between the exhaust and the damn motor mounts... ugh. maybe... MAYBE if I was in some luxury boat like a bentley... but no, not even then since I've tested this while parked. lol one of the main reasons... cds, for all their hype in sound quality, are compressed tracks as well.

I am definitely not going to get into this argument with you lol. I know many people will back me up on this.

I am interested in how well the Kenwood integrates with the Iphone 3g. I keep all my music on my phone. The files are stored at 192 to 320 kps, good enough for my ears. I would like to know if the Kenwood or any other double din nav system is capable of integrating with the Iphone 3g. I know the pioneer does a good job of integration, but have not heard about other units.

I have heard of connection problems with the 3G through the BT on the 8120, and nothing was resolved because it is a problem with the phone, not the unit. As far as the ipod control, I will let you know once I get it installed and borrow a friends 3G. If it does work at all, then it will probably put the phone into airplane mode (therefore rendering it an ipod touch) and you will not be able to receive calls. I know this is how it works on the pioneer.

 

[CHICO2003]

What's their to argue about? lol I'm right and you're wrong. haha but seriously... No one will argue that CDs technically sound better than MP3s. (though the quality of an MP3 can vary and the highest quality MP3 can rival, if not surpass a CD) but that's irrelevant. You clearly stated that CDs sound "100 times better" than MP3s. Surely you must know how ridiculous that sounds. I can't even imagine what a CD would actually sound like if that were true. I mean... I'd probably reach the 4th dimension in some heightened state of conciousness... listening to 1 second of 1 song... even if it was some crap like barry manilow... would undoubtedly make me the wisest person ever to live. I mean... 100 TIMES BETTER??? s***... a CD is probably only... twice as good... maybe 3 as a casette. So to be 100 times better... lmao

All kidding aside...

When one plays a song on an 8 track and the same song on a tape... you can tell the difference. Same thing with casette vs cd. ANYONE... even the dumb s**** out there can tell the difference. Now (high quality) MP3 vs CD.... maybe YOU can tell the difference while driving in a car going 80mph but s***... even if I could, the benefits of not having to fumble with a disc would be worth the sacrifice. But for the record, I can't. I've tried and, if ther's a difference it's purely psychological. I've done the pepsi challenge with friends and nobody can tell what is what. But whatever...

 

[CHICO2003]

I've never used the F90 so I can't speak from experience there. I pretty much thought it was an updated version of the AVIC D3 I have now so... But as for the various clips I've found (of real users) on youtube... other than the insanely long startup time, the unit seems to work good. None of the things 'haveahotcar' said. So who knows?

If the F90 is indeed a step backwards... I'd highly recommend getting an AVIC D3 (if you can find one). Chances are, they'll be pretty cheap. (I'd look but I don't wanna see just how cheap they are!) Seriously.... the thing is fantastic. By the time I get my seatbelt on the unit is up and running... maybe 10 seconds if that. Everything else works just fine. It's touchsreen (much of it at least) so there are occasional instances where you need to hit the button again but that's not a big deal. Really... my ONLY gripe(s) with this unit is the lack of voice command (something the F90 has) and the Ipod integration isn't quite as good as I'd like. Videos need to be played from the Ipod... not the unit. Also, finding music can sometimes be tedious. As long as you understand how it works and setup your playlists accordingly, it's not a big deal. I can usually find what I need within 20 seconds or less... usually far less. And like I said, everything else works flawlessly. The unit is an absolute steal!

 

[Circuit]

What's their to argue about? lol I'm right and you're wrong. haha but seriously... No one will argue that CDs technically sound better than MP3s. (though the quality of an MP3 can vary and the highest quality MP3 can rival, if not surpass a CD) but that's irrelevant. You clearly stated that CDs sound "100 times better" than MP3s. Surely you must know how ridiculous that sounds. I can't even imagine what a CD would actually sound like if that were true. I mean... I'd probably reach the 4th dimension in some heightened state of conciousness... listening to 1 second of 1 song... even if it was some crap like barry manilow... would undoubtedly make me the wisest person ever to live. I mean... 100 TIMES BETTER??? s***... a CD is probably only... twice as good... maybe 3 as a casette. So to be 100 times better... lmao

All kidding aside...

When one plays a song on an 8 track and the same song on a tape... you can tell the difference. Same thing with casette vs cd. ANYONE... even the dumb s**** out there can tell the difference. Now (high quality) MP3 vs CD.... maybe YOU can tell the difference while driving in a car going 80mph but s***... even if I could, the benefits of not having to fumble with a disc would be worth the sacrifice. But for the record, I can't. I've tried and, if ther's a difference it's purely psychological. I've done the pepsi challenge with friends and nobody can tell what is what. But whatever...

Obviously I was using a bit of hyperbole when I came up with the number of 100x. I wasn't talking about "high quality" mp3's because when you buy them off of itunes or what ever service you use, they are at most 256 kbps, and that is what the majority of people do. I am speaking about the most common mp3's vs a cd. The SQ difference is CLEAR.

The whole point of an mp3 is to compress a song smaller than it's respective .wav file (cd format). Regardless of the quality of the recording on the CD, if you convert it to mp3, you ARE losing something.

I won't waste anymore time arguing with you in this thread. Believe what you want.

http://www.stereophile.com/features/308mp3cd/index.html

 

[haveahotcarl]

I would also recommend the D3. If you don't mind having the DVD navigation instead of flash or HDD based, get it. The voice is nice and it does work but it's no Sync system.

 

[mspHtown]

I would also recommend the D3. If you don't mind having the DVD navigation instead of flash or HDD based, get it. The voice is nice and it does work but it's no Sync system.

they dont sell the D3 anymore...?



i watched a video on you tube of the 90bt with the old firmware vs the new firmware (2.0). It was released at the end of october and it reduces the boot up time to about 30 seconds. IMHO, thats not bad at all.





Also, i went to circuit city and all they had was the 90bt. I definitely like how it looks and it was not laggy at all...

I then went to best buy and all they had was the 90bt and a kenwood 5xxx series. I want to see the kenwood unit in person but i dont know where to find it.

 

[CHICO2003]

Obviously I was using a bit of hyperbole when I came up with the number of 100x. I wasn't talking about "high quality" mp3's because when you buy them off of itunes or what ever service you use, they are at most 256 kbps, and that is what the majority of people do. I am speaking about the most common mp3's vs a cd. The SQ difference is CLEAR.

The whole point of an mp3 is to compress a song smaller than it's respective .wav file (cd format). Regardless of the quality of the recording on the CD, if you convert it to mp3, you ARE losing something.

I won't waste anymore time arguing with you in this thread. Believe what you want.

http://www.stereophile.com/features/308mp3cd/index.html

Obviously I knew that. I was just bustin your balls so chill. As for believing what I want... I believe what I hear, not what some spec sheet or technical mumbo jumbo says. Of course (on paper) an MP3 is supposed to sound like s*** compared to a CD. But guess what? In the real world, that's just not the case. I'm no... expert when it comes to this stuff, I just know what I hear.

On a similar note....

I recently tested a blu-ray movie to an on-demand version. Same movie.... nobody, including me, could tell the difference. I matched them up to play at the same spot so... maybe compression's not that big a deal? I don't know... I just know what I hear. (and see)

 

[CHICO2003]

As for the D3... I just did a search. Hard to find but they're out there. Cheapest I could find was $850 so... assuming the new version's not as bad as some have said, go with that instead.

 

[haveahotcarl]

Yes, they don't sell the D3 anymore but it can be found. Also Circuit bad does not have the F90BT, F900 maybe, because they are not a Pioneer Premier dealer.

And start-up time can be reduced to about 30 seconds with nothing attached to it. Hook up an iPod, Bluetooth, put in an SD card and all bets are off. Plus pressing the "off" button is different than starting up your car.

 

[mspHtown]

Yes, they don't sell the D3 anymore but it can be found. Also Circuit bad does not have the F90BT, F900 maybe, because they are not a Pioneer Premier dealer.

And start-up time can be reduced to about 30 seconds with nothing attached to it. Hook up an iPod, Bluetooth, put in an SD card and all bets are off. Plus pressing the "off" button is different than starting up your car.

no reason to be a dick...


i am not trying to sell the pioneer units, all i have to go by is what i read online.


yes i know circuit city does not have the 90 bt, however the 900bt is practically the same, that is why i said they had it.


here is the new 2.0 update for the 700,900, and 90bt units:

the ipod and navi pop up in 37 seconds. skip to about the 2 minute mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24tVA8vBT58



Im not saying the time is good, but its not as bad as it used to be.




How long does it take the kenwood to boot up with ipod, bluetooth, sd, etc?

 

[haveahotcarl]

Sorry, didn't mean to come off that way. I would agree, faster but I would wait until they have all the kinks worked out before picking one up. Unfortunately I have not had a chance to check out the Kenwood when booting with all sorts of stuff hooked up. Anyone else?

 

[mspHtown]

Sorry, didn't mean to come off that way. I would agree, faster but I would wait until they have all the kinks worked out before picking one up. Unfortunately I have not had a chance to check out the Kenwood when booting with all sorts of stuff hooked up. Anyone else?

dont worry about it, internet sucks for any sort of communication.



i wish i could find someone local with these units in their car.... like that will ever happen!

 

[Circuit]

Got my kenwood in and I love it so far. BT and ipod do not affect boot up at all.

There's only 1 thing I don't like about it. The voice for the BT and nav are only through speaker outputs, and the nav voice is not that loud. I need to see if I can go deeper into the menus to either make the mute more powerful or turn up the nav voice.

Here's a pic of it installed. The cage makes install a snap.

 

[CHICO2003]

All this talk about bootup times made me wonder... So I actually timed how long it takes from turning my key to being able to operate anything/everything. Time.... 7 seconds And I've got the bluetooth and ipod. So I don't know wtf this 30+ second crap is all about but if Pioneer really dropped the ball that hard on their 'improved' design... they should be b**** slappped. When I saw the F90 I assumed it was just an updated version of mine. Sounds like it might instead be the... 3rd gen eclipse to the 2nd. or something.

Anyway... this isn't technically mine but since it's in an MSP and all, I figured it would due. Note how the backlit buttons and even overall theme of the lcd can be tailored to match any interior color. This isn't something many other units can do. Even though the screen is smaller than some, the fact that it provides some useful tactile buttons (and a volume knob) combined with a pricepoint of roughly half of the 'full sized' versions... and this is a better deal imo. One other thing of note... The voice of the nav is ridiculously good. I've tested out the best CNET reviewed portable nav systems and they suck in comparrison. tinny robotic voices ftl This one's downright human sounding... go figure. And the fluidity when traveling and general interface cannot be beat. Pioneer seems to have the market cornered here because the other brands I was looking at (at the time at least... things may have changed) really sucked balls in this dept. Especially, no offense, kenwood and alpine. it was like comparring PS3 to PS1 graphics

 

[mspHtown]

Got my kenwood in and I love it so far. BT and ipod do not affect boot up at all.

There's only 1 thing I don't like about it. The voice for the BT and nav are only through speaker outputs, and the nav voice is not that loud. I need to see if I can go deeper into the menus to either make the mute more powerful or turn up the nav voice.

Here's a pic of it installed. The cage makes install a snap.

looks awesome. have you tried the bluetooth calling yet?

where do you get the cage from?

how long does it take to boot up?

 

[mspHtown]

All this talk about bootup times made me wonder... So I actually timed how long it takes from turning my key to being able to operate anything/everything. Time.... 7 seconds And I've got the bluetooth and ipod. So I don't know wtf this 30+ second crap is all about but if Pioneer really dropped the ball that hard on their 'improved' design... they should be b**** slappped. When I saw the F90 I assumed it was just an updated version of mine. Sounds like it might instead be the... 3rd gen eclipse to the 2nd. or something.

Anyway... this isn't technically mine but since it's in an MSP and all, I figured it would due. Note how the backlit buttons and even overall theme of the lcd can be tailored to match any interior color. This isn't something many other units can do. Even though the screen is smaller than some, the fact that it provides some useful tactile buttons (and a volume knob) combined with a pricepoint of roughly half of the 'full sized' versions... and this is a better deal imo. One other thing of note... The voice of the nav is ridiculously good. I've tested out the best CNET reviewed portable nav systems and they suck in comparrison. tinny robotic voices ftl This one's downright human sounding... go figure. And the fluidity when traveling and general interface cannot be beat. Pioneer seems to have the market cornered here because the other brands I was looking at (at the time at least... things may have changed) really sucked balls in this dept. Especially, no offense, kenwood and alpine. it was like comparring PS3 to PS1 graphics

the pioneer unit also looks nice. i do like how you can match the colors to the stock lighting. i wish the pioneer unit didnt have any bugs at all. would make my decision simple.

 

[Circuit]

looks awesome. have you tried the bluetooth calling yet?

where do you get the cage from?

how long does it take to boot up?

Yeah bluetooth works GREAT! I have a Motorola SLVR and everything comes in clear.

The cage comes in the box.

Boot up is 10 - 15 seconds max, but I haven't actually counted.

 

[mspHtown]

Yeah bluetooth works GREAT! I have a Motorola SLVR and everything comes in clear.

The cage comes in the box.

Boot up is 10 - 15 seconds max, but I haven't actually counted.

the only negative review i have read is that the driver's voice is hard to hear/understand on the other end.


did anyone you call complain about this?



does the kenwood unit have a built-in mic or do you mount it somewhere?

 

[Circuit]

the only negative review i have read is that the driver's voice is hard to hear/understand on the other end.


did anyone you call complain about this?



does the kenwood unit have a built-in mic or do you mount it somewhere?

I called a coworker and he said it sounded fine. The mic comes on a long wire. I mounted it at the top of the driver's side A-Pillar.