Does the N/A 2.3ltr Motor bolt up to the speed 6 AWD?

[Mistersix]

its my understanding that recent uncoverings are the problem with torque. to much to early in the power band. the mzr disi makes a buttload of torque so suddenly it can bend/brake rods. tuning would be key to push the the powerband back a bit.

you could get into the direct injection and its crazy psi. correct me if i'm wrong but its as high as 1500 psi and needs to be even higher at higher rpm and higher power levels. thats why the external hpfp needs upgrading after certain power levels to keep up.
and again i could be wrong but thats ultimately the limitation with the fuel system. not that its inadequate but that it requires so much pressure in order to do its thing.

now this should get blendercloud and tunersteve rolling with the punches!!!!

 

[tunersteve]

You're correct in the analysis that the low end torque is cause for concern, but on a properly built motor, I don't think that's a problem.

Upgrading the CDFP internals and delivering more fuel is the first step, but the other big issue is the injector pulse width (duration) that these injectors fire in. Upgrading them and being able to program a longer injection duration would push power up even higher.

There's the jab, let's see what the hook looks like...

 

[Blendercloud]

Thanks to direct injection, a lot of low-end torque is present and effectively carried throughout the rev range. There is a newly-founded school of thought that has risen from the idea that the rods used (relative to their length, weight, and material) in the stock 2.3L MZR DISI Turbo are susceptible to bending and eventually breaking under higher than stock amounts of torque output. This is not the fault or weakness of the design of the fueling system, particularly direct injection. The theory is that improper connecting rods were specified for the application with respect to the amount of sub-2,500-rev torque that is made. This theory is reinforced by a few cases where under stock or mildly-modified conditions (low-end bolt-ons like intakes and test pipes), there have been reports of bent or broken rods.

One of the things you have to understand about this argument is that many people will try to throw their car into this group because they're butthurt their car is a yard ornament. Those people will also try to justify their use of a manual boost controller holding >16psi at 3,500 revs and so on. In more than 80% of the cases of blown engines on this platform (that I've seen and read about) it has been due to improper tuning or the use of a manual boost controller.

I wouldn't make the statement that the fuel system is a limitation. The injection system is more than adequate for power levels exceeding a rating of 450hp. It's simply that the CDFP in some cases does not supply fuel at a high enough pressure consistently. However, the CDFP is more than adequate for low-end bolt-ons. It is also easily upgraded. The ECU will manage boost to compensate for dips in fuel pressure. The argument could be made that reliability is sacrificed because of the lack of a smooth power curve, but that would likely be the case even without boost cut.

 

[Mistersix]

good info guys.... but the question remains. could one make more power with a non-disi mzr engine?

 

[coyfish]

you know what mark is putting down these days? I know hes had that GT4OR in there for a while with a built block.

 

[Mistersix]

where can i find info on the this car you speak of?

i wanna check it aht!

 

[coyfish]

Hes got like every mod available for the speed 6 and strapped on a big ass GT40R. Built block and all. I know he was searching for tuning options. Just wonder if he has made any progress. Biggest turbo on a speed 6.

 

[Mistersix]

is this mark as in street unit mark?

 

[coyfish]

yea

 

[E21BIMMERHEAD]

um from what I have come to understand; direct injection becomes really difficult to provide fuel past 6000rpms because of the limitations of that style of injector and the fact the injector is not in the intake manifold. Because of this place ment the injectors cants pulse fast enough to push past 6k while building power(its hard to rev every engine past 6k in general but even more so with direct injection. This is why direct injection has remained popular with diesel engines because they dont rev that high....). So wouldnt it make sense to just add a set of secondary injectors on a fuel rail in the intake manifold? From past rx7 experience i know this was done on the 13B because of this very same senario(wankels REALLY do not like lean conditions).

 

[Blendercloud]

Your idea of secondary fueling is pretty interesting. The difficulty I've experienced with making an engine pull high revs has been because of richness. Granted, all of this experience was with carbureted dirt/circle track and drag engines.

I would be interested in knowing what kind of possible options there are out there for injectors for this engine.

 

[TexasSpeed6]

There is alot of miss information in this thread.

The reason the engine has a hard time reving past 6000rpm is because of our stroke, the theoretical max rpm for this engine is 6700rpm because of our crappy pistons.

Injector PW isnt a issue with this car.

You cant get even 450 crank hp our of our fuel system even if you were running the max 2170 psi of rail pressure. On paper our injectors max at ~420 crank hp.

Our low end torque is due to our cams and our VVT system, not DISI.

The standard 2.3l block is inferior to the 2.3l DISI block because our block is made from a stronger alloy. The standard 2.3l also doesnt have a forged crank unless you get a ranger block. The standard 2.3l piston also uses a smaller diameter pin which is weaker. The block itself will bolt up though.

I would recommend getting a long block if you do it since the DISI head is different and would need some work to fit because the coolant and oil passages arent in the same spot.

The newer (09+) n/a 2.3l blocks I *think* use the DISI head and because of that they *might* use a DISI block. The spot where the DI injectors go is simply plugged and the engine runs with a PI system, but dont quote me on any of that because I havent checked it out myself and its likely to be completely wrong but still worth looking at just in case.

 

[Funky Mo Fo]

So, to pull some thoughts together...(as far as serious hp increases go)

Beefy-er connecting rods and pins would be a good idea
Upgraded CDFP internals also good idea
PROPER TUNING

Questions: Would there be a fix/benefit from higher flowing, matched injectors?
Is our stock crank strong enough for the power we are talking about?