custom supercharger project

[Rism]

Alright well since that supercharger thread I decided I might go about doing my own custom supercharger setup on my 2002 es rather than waiting for a kit. So far I been debating between going turbo or staying NA. Since im not getting the power I want out of a NA setup I decided a supercharger would suit me best. So I think thats the road I will be taking. I probably wont start this project until about 3-4 weeks when I will have a good amount of $$$ to put into it.

My reason for posting this to get some input/help from anyone willing to give any. I have been doing some research on SC and am leaning towards the eaton m62 SC over the m45. I took some measurements of my engine bay and the m62 will fit over my header for the most part, but will probably have to relocate some stuff.

If any of you have some suggestions or feedback feel free to post away (thumb)

 

[Matthew]

just wanted to say goodluck and i wanted to get a little email notification thing going (nana)

talk to ryanjayg he seemed like he knew what the **** he was talking about with those things. maybe head over to the mustang forums or talk to beau from mental addiction motorsports...you know those stang guys are always 'chargin

 

[Paul Ruebens]

big thread on it on protegeclub.com

that guy's already got stuff going together on it.

 

[jflo]

i remember reading on the miata.net forum that the m62 is better in terms of power and price. driveability should be great as well

 

[Rism]

big thread on it on protegeclub.com

that guy's already got stuff going together on it.

Yea but he is talking about taking out the AC and all that to get the SC to fit which I really dont think is necessary since there is plenty of room above the header. He is also pricing hit kit pretty high, if he makes one. Plus I think I would have a lot more fun as well as learn a lot more doing my own custom setup

If anyone knows any good distributors for eaton supercharger let me know. They have a m62 on ebay right now pretty cheap but sadly I donty have the money to get it right now. I havent had much luck finding anyone who sells em on the net and the only sales offices eaton lists are in europe or asia

 

[Paul Ruebens]

there is only one distributor of new eatons. Magnusson Products.

I think you need to start using some common sense though.... No'one makes a bolt-on supercharger for the protege....the only kit with a blower eliminated the powersteering and required a custom header to fit....the guy who's the furthest along with this says it's more complex than he originaly thought and the price will have to go up. Yet you think it's just an easy bolt-on job. Maybe you should trust / leave it to the guys who know what they're doing all ready?

 

[RyanJayG]

just wanted to say goodluck and i wanted to get a little email notification thing going (nana)

talk to ryanjayg he seemed like he knew what the **** he was talking about with those things. maybe head over to the mustang forums or talk to beau from mental addiction motorsports...you know those stang guys are always 'chargin

haha, even though I am confident I could either use a reverse rotation centerfugal type and mount it in there, or build a custon sheetmetal mani for a roots or whipple type SC, I STILL WOULDNT DO IT

too much work when a turbo kit in out cars isn't hard to do...

turbo is ALWAYS better if you have the room, thats its only drawback... turbo kits take a lot of room, and are somewhat complex piping, where superchargers are : point A to point B

at this point the only reason to go SC is just to be different.

 

[Paul Ruebens]

what about instant power, no boost spiking, no increase in under hood temps, no additonal maintaince required, etc.... I agree though that it would be nice to have the only street driven SC pro. Very unique.

 

[RyanJayG]

what about instant power, no boost spiking, no increase in under hood temps, no additonal maintaince required, etc.... I agree though that it would be nice to have the only street driven SC pro. Very unique.

well the instant power can be overcome by using the right sized TC.... most people always try to go too big... they want big peek numbers, but I prefer area under the curve. small BB turbo with a tubular equal length mani is nearly instant boost.

boost spiking wouldn't happen if you used a Tial Wastegate and a good ballberring MBC, but people always try to skimp on price.

underhood temps kinda suck, but hey, if you are making power safely, then oh well

maintanence is just a fact... SC's need it too. though a bit less than a TC it just depends on the style SC you use.

but the uniqueness you got me... I fully agree

 

[Paul Ruebens]

All of the stuff you mentioned as ways to make the turbocharger spool as fast as a supercharger will cost 3 times more than a similar supercharger. The only thing that saves it is the initial cost of a turbo is much less than a blower.

Also, the supercharger that other guy is using is self-contained. There's no tapping into the oil pan or coolant hoses, there's no oil to flush, it doesn't use the stock engines oil so it doesn't break it down faster like a turbo. I don't know of ANY additional maintaince that a supercharger needs....i guess just checking the belt but everyone should be doing that on their cars.

 

[20EVOLUTION01]

Hey, did anyone see the pic of the Yellow MP3 from wings west that came out in the HCI magazine from May 2003. It was outfitted with a Vortech Super Charger. I really like the set up and also got me going towards a Super Charger build up but very time I liiked for a super charger they were to expensive. Of course they made special brackets but I don't know if they removed any of the components in the engine. Let me scan the page and show you guys.

 

[Paul Ruebens]

already seen it....they did remove the powersteering, just as they did with the area51 kit.

 

[20EVOLUTION01]

(eekdance) Here is the Mag Cover and The Super Charger Pic. (bowdown)

 

[20EVOLUTION01]

already seen it....they did remove the powersteering, just as they did with the area51 kit.

Oh Ok.

 

[Rism]

there is only one distributor of new eatons. Magnusson Products.

I think you need to start using some common sense though.... No'one makes a bolt-on supercharger for the protege....the only kit with a blower eliminated the powersteering and required a custom header to fit....the guy who's the furthest along with this says it's more complex than he originaly thought and the price will have to go up. Yet you think it's just an easy bolt-on job. Maybe you should trust / leave it to the guys who know what they're doing all ready?

I never expected it to be just an easy bolt on job. I said I would rather do it on my own rather than buy a kit because It would be a good learning experience and will also give me a unique protege.

 

[Paul Ruebens]

I just think you don't know what you're getting into. It's going to take more time and money than just a whim usually provide. Have you even researched blowers?

 

[70]

what about instant power, no boost spiking, no increase in under hood temps, no additonal maintaince required, etc.... I agree though that it would be nice to have the only street driven SC pro. Very unique.

A centrifugal blower will not give instant power. It has some lag just like a big turbo because it has to spin to get all of the boost.

The intake charge temp is way higher than a turbo with an intercooler. Underhood temps will reflect that. Air temp into the motor will be higher on a roots blower running 8 psi than a turbo running same boost intercooled. Of course you can run some sort of after cooler or something on a centrifugal blower, but then you right back into turbo land.

A blower requires maintenance...Where did you hear it didn't?

Look at all of the work Flyin' Miata has done over the past year to get their blower up and running ont he Miata. It's not easy.

Yes it would be cool, the power comes on different. But, it is a ton of work. And centrifugal blowers are not for low end power...

 

[Paul Ruebens]

A superchargers boost is determined by 3 things ONLY. Crank pulley size, blower pulley size and engine rpm.

Assuming all things are equal. If you make 6psi @ 6K rpms, then you make 1psi @ 1k, 2psi @ 2K and so on. Thats not lag per se. It's just how a supercharger delivers power. Once it reaches it's peak it can't build anymore boost. Similar to how a power steering pump reaches full power at like 1200rpms...obviously the motor revs higher but the pressure stays the same from 1200rpms on.

p.s. You're going to need to prove to me what additional maintaince needs to be done with a blower. It doesn't require a cooling supply so there is no draw on the cooling system. It doesn't require oil from the oil pan so it doesn't use up more oil faster. The only maintaince it could possibly increase is belt life...and thats only IF it runs off an exsisting belt.

 

[70]

A superchargers boost is determined by 3 things ONLY. Crank pulley size, blower pulley size and engine rpm.

Assuming all things are equal. If you make 6psi @ 6K rpms, then you make 1psi @ 1k, 2psi @ 2K and so on. Thats not lag per se. It's just how a supercharger delivers power. Once it reaches it's peak it can't build anymore boost. Similar to how a power steering pump reaches full power at like 1200rpms...obviously the motor revs higher but the pressure stays the same from 1200rpms on.

p.s. You're going to need to prove to me what additional maintaince needs to be done with a blower. It doesn't require a cooling supply so there is no draw on the cooling system. It doesn't require oil from the oil pan so it doesn't use up more oil faster. The only maintaince it could possibly increase is belt life...and thats only IF it runs off an exsisting belt.

Centrifugal blowers require an oil supply just like a turbo...Look at the installation and how it works. I watched way to much Horsepower TV yesterday and watched as they did the Vortech install on a Mustang. Tapped the oil pan for the return and had to find a source for the oil to get sent to the blower.

It will still spool like a turbo. The pulley size will determine how much boost it makes over all.

Look at the dyno curves of every centrifugal blower and tell me the power is not top end...

A roots blower is different, so is a whipple. Those two require their own source of gear lube that is usually put in on intial installation and would need to be topped off periodically as it burns/uses the oil.

 

[Mike R]

Centrifugal blowers require an oil supply just like a turbo...Look at the installation and how it works. I watched way to much Horsepower TV yesterday and watched as they did the Vortech install on a Mustang. Tapped the oil pan for the return and had to find a source for the oil to get sent to the blower.

It will still spool like a turbo. The pulley size will determine how much boost it makes over all.

Look at the dyno curves of every centrifugal blower and tell me the power is not top end...

A roots blower is different, so is a whipple. Those two require their own source of gear lube that is usually put in on intial installation and would need to be topped off periodically as it burns/uses the oil.

Not all centrifugal superchargers are Vortec. Powerdyne, Procharger, and Paxton are self contained and do not require an oil tap from the motor.(depending on which model is used)