coilover or spring/shock

[aceblaster]

I have been planning on upgrading my suspension for a while now and have been reading up on what everyone else has done but would like to get everyones opinions. First of all I don't want to slam my car, nor do I want to lower it.(due to where I live, I would just beat the crap out of my bumper.) I just want the best overall handling, ride, and feel for my money. With that in mind... Here is what I've been looking at.

Cobb Spring/sway bars with Koni FSD's Shocks.

Would it be better to get that set up or go with a Coilover setup?
If I did go with the coilover option what coilovers would give me the best results for what I want (keep in mind I don't want to lower the car)

Sorry if I said something stupid, new to the whole suspension scene.

 

[Design]

FSD's are the way to go, hands down. That alone will give you significantly better handling out of the box. You do not need springs - OEM rates are excellent. That combo will make you quick enough at the track yet compliant enough for the street.

Coilovers require stiffer springs to compensate for the reduced ride height. Stiffer springs = reduced body roll and less suspension movement. If you must go with Cobb springs, you'll need to look past FSD and go with something that will work with a lowering spring such as Koni/Bilstein Sports. Either option will provide a "slight" performance advantage over FSD/OEM at the expense of ride comfort.

 

[solidtrance]

+1.

I haven't heard of any springs out there that don't lower the car, so if you are going to stick with the stock ride height and spring the FSD's will be fine. the koni sports would be better and give you some adjustability and they are not that much more expensive. If you are lust looking to tighten up the handling a bit you can get a set of shocks and add a Rear Sway Bar. Those two mods will give you a much tighter ride.

 

[Design]

I have asked Lee Grimes about testing FSD's with the Mazdaspeed Accessory springs. No response as of yet, but I'd suspect with smaller bump stops (i.e. fat cat stops) you might be able to get away with it. Cobb's advertised drop is .4" more than MS and most likely would not work.

 

[aceblaster]

+1.

I haven't heard of any springs out there that don't lower the car, so if you are going to stick with the stock ride height and spring the FSD's will be fine. the koni sports would be better and give you some adjustability and they are not that much more expensive. If you are lust looking to tighten up the handling a bit you can get a set of shocks and add a Rear Sway Bar. Those two mods will give you a much tighter ride.

Is there any maintenance on the adjustable Sports after the initial tune?

Is there a signifigant difference in upgrading my front sway bar or should I only replace the Rear sway bar?

 

[aceblaster]

Also does anyone know of any good springs that won't lower the car? If not I guess I'm sticking with the OEM.

 

[spdjnke]

sides stock, you can always contact Eibach direct and they can make a set for you from what I've heard, they will do custom springs.

 

[solidtrance]

koni sport shocks should not require any maintenance once installed. The front can be adjustef while on the car, but the rear need to be removed to be adjusted. So the rear is essentially set and forget.

You do not need to replace the FSB at thiis point. There are a bunch of other things you should do first.

 

[aceblaster]

koni sport shocks should not require any maintenance once installed. The front can be adjustef while on the car, but the rear need to be removed to be adjusted. So the rear is essentially set and forget.

You do not need to replace the FSB at thiis point. There are a bunch of other things you should do first.

What would you suggest doing before I upgrade to the Koni?

I've got on my list to replace engine mounts first but that was about it.

 

[solidtrance]

You can get the Koni's now. Mounts are a good idea and should make a big diference. I was saying that you don't need a Front Sway Bar. There are a lot of things that I would recomend before the FSB (Enging and Trans Mounts, Rear Sway Bar, Chassis Bracing and maybe Camber Plates).

 

[Gmac03]

My biggest factor in deciding on Coilovers vs. Spring/shock combo was my weather conditions. I live in upstate NY and we salt the roads like crazy. With a coilover you have a threaded body, corrosion plus that threaded body is no good. Also how many times would I adjust the height, probably never. Now adjusting the dampening, I would do that frequently.

The setup that I've found to be pushed upon is the eibach/koni sports. Now I'm not sure if those companies are somehow linked and that's why they recommend to use each others products or if there was really some r&d behind that.

But, once I purchase, that'll be the setup I go with. Ride handling is a little more aggressive than stock and the drop is the smallest that I could find.

Good luck, let us know what you go with and what you think of it.

Gmac

 

[CnoTataymo]

The smallest drop is with the Mazdaspeed springs or Cobb (if they still make them).

 

[Gmac03]

Eibach lowers vehicle 1.0-1.5, but also states it's springs are 0.8front and 0.7 in the rear lower
Cobb 1.0 in drop
MS 15mm
AutoExe 30mm
H&R 1.5-2.0 in

But again I read in another post, so don't take it as gospel, but the eibach's are recommended by Koni.

Gmac

 

[aceblaster]

You can get the Koni's now. Mounts are a good idea and should make a big diference. I was saying that you don't need a Front Sway Bar. There are a lot of things that I would recomend before the FSB (Enging and Trans Mounts, Rear Sway Bar, Chassis Bracing and maybe Camber Plates).

Alright well it looks like I'm going to go with the Koni shocks, haven't decided on FDS or Sports, I don't know much about it so the idea of someone else messing with the tune on them kind of bothers me. How hard are the sports to tune? Will the back be simple enough that I wouldn't have to worry about the shop making them ride like s*** and having to get them retuned since you can't do it while they are on the car?

Also dumb questions, What is the purpose of the chssis bracing and chamber plates? Please go into a little detail if you can, I have no idea. Thanks

 

[aceblaster]

My biggest factor in deciding on Coilovers vs. Spring/shock combo was my weather conditions. I live in upstate NY and we salt the roads like crazy. With a coilover you have a threaded body, corrosion plus that threaded body is no good. Also how many times would I adjust the height, probably never. Now adjusting the dampening, I would do that frequently.

The setup that I've found to be pushed upon is the eibach/koni sports. Now I'm not sure if those companies are somehow linked and that's why they recommend to use each others products or if there was really some r&d behind that.

But, once I purchase, that'll be the setup I go with. Ride handling is a little more aggressive than stock and the drop is the smallest that I could find.

Good luck, let us know what you go with and what you think of it.

Gmac

Well, I think that I am going to go with stock springs for the time being and get the Koni Sports when I do get shocks, but I think I will get Engine Mounts and RSB first. I plan on looking into the other stuff suggested to and see if I want to invest in them first too. I will definately post when I get everything and let everyone know what I think.

 

[solidtrance]

Good thinking. Sounds like you have things in the right order, and you are not getting ahead of yourself.

 

[Gmac03]

Alright well it looks like I'm going to go with the Koni shocks, haven't decided on FDS or Sports, I don't know much about it so the idea of someone else messing with the tune on them kind of bothers me. How hard are the sports to tune? Will the back be simple enough that I wouldn't have to worry about the shop making them ride like s*** and having to get them retuned since you can't do it while they are on the car?

Also dumb questions, What is the purpose of the chssis bracing and chamber plates? Please go into a little detail if you can, I have no idea. Thanks

The way you "tune" the shocks is by adjusting the predetermined settings. I'm not sure how many positions they have, but for instance I have KYB AGX on another one of my cars and the fronts are 4 positions and the rears are 8 positions. The rears you turn a knob on the side and the front you spin an adjuster from the top of the shock body, above the strut mount.

Here is the link for the Koni's adjustments... http://www.koni-na.com/adjustment.cfm

Now I don't know what type of adjustment comes on the MS3 specific koni's, but all of the shocks are already tuned, you just need to pick which setting you want to ride on.

Disregard, here is the directions to adjust the front shocks.

Rebound Adjustment Procedures

Externally Adjustable. These dampers can be adjusted, literally at the turn of a knob, a technique borrowed from Formula-1 racing where KONI dampers have dominated the field for years. One can switch back and forth, in most cases in a matter of seconds, from a comfortable "touring" setting to a more firm setting for a sporty drive. By means of a knob damping forces can be altered to driving conditions or personal preferences.

REBOUND ADJUSTMENT DIRECTION
Clockwise = Softer
Counter Clockwise = Firmer

Here are the instructions for the rear...

Rebound Adjustment Procedures



Remove the shock absorber from the vehicle and hold it vertically with the lower eye or pin attached in a vise. Use clamp plates to prevent damage.

Fully collapse the shock absorber, at the same time turning the dust cap or piston rod slowly to the left (counterclockwise), until it is felt that the cams of the adjustment nut engage in the recesses of the foot valve assembly.

Some shock absorbers include a bump rubber concealed under the dust cover and it must be removed prior to adjusting.



The damper may have already been adjusted. Therefore check whether the shock absorber is in the adjustment position or not by keeping it collapsed and gently turning it further to the left counting at the same time the half turns until a stop is felt. Stop turning then and do not use force.



Keeping the shock absorber collapsed, make 1 half turn (180 degrees) to the right (clockwise). In case of prior adjustment add the number of half the turns previously found. The total range is about 5 half turns.

Pull the shock absorber out vertically without turning for at least 1 cm to disengage the adjusting mechanism. The dust cap or piston rod may now be turned freely.



ADJUSTING DIRECTION

Clockwise = Firmer
Counter Clockwise = Softer


Now camber plates are to adjust camber, our car doesn't come with adjustable camber, so you would need to add these plates or arms (front or rear) to adjust the camber.

Here is a good reference for suspension setup, toe/caster/camber...

http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

The chassis braces are just that, addes braces to the chassis to stiffen it and prevent flexing. I wouldn't recommend them unless you are building a track queen. Our car is very stiff already, maybe it could use some more, but I don't think you'd see much of a difference unless it was pushed to the extremes.

Gmac

 

[RichB]

I literally asked the same question as aceblaster a week before. With some info from the same people as in this thread, I ended up ordering the Koni Sports, Eibach springs, and a Hotchkis RSB.

If you are thinking of changing the springs down the road, it might be a good idea to do the shocks and springs at the same time. The installation of the shocks required you to remove the springs anyway. Why do it twice? Totally your call though.

 

[aceblaster]

I literally asked the same question as aceblaster a week before. With some info from the same people as in this thread, I ended up ordering the Koni Sports, Eibach springs, and a Hotchkis RSB.

If you are thinking of changing the springs down the road, it might be a good idea to do the shocks and springs at the same time. The installation of the shocks required you to remove the springs anyway. Why do it twice? Totally your call though.

Well if I have to custom order a set of springs I might just stick with the Stock. Is it somewhat easy of a installation of the shocks, I would like to do it myself but don't know if I need any special tools...

 

[solidtrance]

You will need a spring compressor for the front. Standard tools other than that.