cobb?standback?

[Bravnik]

Bravnik - I agree with everything you've written and in fact could've said just about everything you said word for word as I too owned both tuning solutions. For me the AP worked better and I feel more confident in it's development ... doesn't mean I'm going to slam the SB as the guys there at CP-E were gracious and helpful and are a boon to the development of these engines.

The AP has a money-back guarantee as I understand it. The SB likely too but I'm not 100% sure.

The stock tune the car comes with off the assembly line has built-in safety margins in it's tuning and Cobb (like all tuners) will use up some of that safety margin by leaning the AFR out a bit, advancing the timing a bit, and upping the boost a couple of psi.

If you want to trim those safety margins yourself by doing your own tuning, then at this point the SB is for you. If you don't and want to run a map that's better than stock and will also allow you to tune yourself or have a pro tune in the near future, then the AP is for you.

I'm glad someone gets what I'm saying. I have nothing bad to say about the SB, I simply don't like false info or Snake Oil comments made about a product when it's not true.

It really all depends on a persons goal with their car and then I recommend a solution based on that. Honestly that's my goal and if that's biased then WTH, I'm biased I guess. But to me that sounds like a very unbiased way of doing it.

 

[Alexsered]

OMG, Bravnik, you are going around in circles, I never trust my car to some stranger making tunes 3000 miles away, I think you are missing the point on the whole safety issues, there are Major issues with knock and the AP and you are saying there are none? There was a guy that just started a thread on this very forum a few days ago about his V103 maps were giving him worse knock than the stock tune, and after trying to resolve the issues for a few weeks is giving up and is going to the standback.

You keep saying you are unbiased but you keep trying to scare new MS3 owners into thinking that since they don't have that much knowledge about there cars, that they should definalty go with the AP. But if these new updated v103 maps are as poorly tuned as quiet of few people say they are on the different forums, than you are telling them to buy a product that will gain hp but is not good for the car in the long run.

look, if you go to my very first post, I have been saying this all along, if COBB would have got off there high horse and put out a tunning solution that lets other people get control of their cars, than they would be alot more respect by people like me and other people that actually care about the tune's in there car. All the beta map crap, and sending out single tunes for mod lists is so dangerous and I can't believe people actually buy into the COBB propaganda. If there AP can tune, than they are one software engineer away from giving the power to the consumer. Trust me, COBB can give out this software, but they choose not to. Why they don't really fascinates me.

 

[Speed3Rookie]

Hmm...seems like someone has an axe to grind.

Alot of the information that I'm hearing is that COBB doesn't even know how to read the information on the ECU. They don't change EVERYTHING when they remap your ECU, alot of the information is the same and they just change a few peramiters. Just a heads up though, our CPU's in the ECU's can only handle up to a max of around 150 flashes. That is an estimate by mazda, so some might handle less and some might handle more. For most people that will never be an issue, but I don't like that. Anyway, I'm not a fan of COBB, I think they try to work on the Speed3 like they do with EVO's and STI's and they can't. Its a different animal. I'm so happy I found CP-E.

 

[Alexsered]

If I owned an EVO or and STI, I don't think you could find a better solution than what COBB offers, but I'm not a fan of COBB because of how they are treating the Mazdaspeed3 and the community. Let me tune my car, not some dude that knows nothing about "my" car. I pretty much though I was screwed with tuning this car because all I knew about was COBB's tuning solution, but than I found CP-E and never looked back.

 

[Bravnik]

OMG, Bravnik, you are going around in circles, I never trust my car to some stranger making tunes 3000 miles away, I think you are missing the point on the whole safety issues, there are Major issues with knock and the AP and you are saying there are none? There was a guy that just started a thread on this very forum a few days ago about his V103 maps were giving him worse knock than the stock tune, and after trying to resolve the issues for a few weeks is giving up and is going to the standback.

You keep saying you are unbiased but you keep trying to scare new MS3 owners into thinking that since they don't have that much knowledge about there cars, that they should definalty go with the AP. But if these new updated v103 maps are as poorly tuned as quiet of few people say they are on the different forums, than you are telling them to buy a product that will gain hp but is not good for the car in the long run.

look, if you go to my very first post, I have been saying this all along, if COBB would have got off there high horse and put out a tunning solution that lets other people get control of their cars, than they would be alot more respect by people like me and other people that actually care about the tune's in there car. All the beta map crap, and sending out single tunes for mod lists is so dangerous and I can't believe people actually buy into the COBB propaganda. If there AP can tune, than they are one software engineer away from giving the power to the consumer. Trust me, COBB can give out this software, but they choose not to. Why they don't really fascinates me.

Here is the deal dude. I'm not some guy on another forum for you to randomly reference. I'm right here, using the product, running the NEW released Maps which I have about 100miles on it now. I'm here right now telling you that it runs just fine on my car. I have NO KR when WOT. None, Nadda ZIP bro. My AFR's are 11.5-12 and I wished they were just a tad higher to be honest, but over all I'm very pleased with the released 103's.

Here is another thing skippy - I would NEVER recommend a product I didn't have faith in. I don't work that way. If it sucks, it sucks and I would never recommend it.

You quote that the new released AP maps are reported as crap? Where? I'm running it and I'm here to tell you they are NOT crap. I go to ALL the mazda forums and read everything about the AP. There are a few people that were running stage 1 and got knock but they went to Stage 2 and it was gone. It's called not running the right MAP. Also there are other issues that can cause KR. I got 7degs of KR WOT with a STOCK ECU. Every time. Every Log. With the AP I get ZERO.

Oh and guess what. I have NO CUT when WOT. FOR FREE and Not a $35 extra purchase. Each and every added feature on the SB Flash is an extra $35 purchase. Full Cut Fix = Extra, Full Throttle Fix = Extra. And when Cobb releases the No Lift Shift, CEL Fix for Catless DPs, and any other flash modification it will be free. You talk about Cobb mistreating the community. How about $450 Flash that if they tweak it you have to pay to get the tweak. Like that cost was not enough to get updates for free.

You want me to start quoting the posts where peoples cars run like s*** with the SB but as soon as they put in the Bypass it runs great? You want me to quote all the SB cars that popped their motors? Just about every BT car out there, Pale, MilGuy etc popped their motors running the SB. There are issues with all Tuning solutions. It is COMMON. The SB is not immune to them. There are a lot of posts about them. You may see more questions about the AP but that is due to it selling 5 to 1. There are simply more AP's out there.

Not to mention to get the Flash you have to mail your ******* ECU to CPE to get it done. You want a risk? Risk losing your ******* ECU in the mail. That's a risk. Sure you can insure it. Just how long your car is down and the hassle of getting it married to your car and your keys reset. Sure go ahead. Mail your ECU through the postal system. Be my guest. That's a risk I refuse to take.

Here is another tip for you. Get your SB tuned you nub before you go thinking you know what you're talking about. When did you get your SB anyway? According to CPE you didn't have one two weeks ago when you got your flash?

However, even with all the hassle, extra money and time the SB requires, you will NEVER see me say its a bad product. I simply don't feel it's the best product for a certain group of people out there like myself.

Look, I'm done trying to talk sense to a complete moron. Synapse LOL that says it all.

 

[Alexsered]

Here is the deal dude. I'm not some guy on another forum for you to randomly reference. I'm right here, using the product, running the NEW released Maps which I have about 100miles on it now. I'm here right now telling you that it runs just fine on my car. I have NO KR when WOT. None, Nadda ZIP bro. My AFR's are 11.5-12 and I wished they were just a tad higher to be honest, but over all I'm very pleased with the released 103's.

Here is another thing skippy - I would NEVER recommend a product I didn't have faith in. I don't work that way. If it sucks, it sucks and I would never recommend it.

You quote that the new released AP maps are reported as crap? Where? I'm running it and I'm here to tell you they are NOT crap. I go to ALL the mazda forums and read everything about the AP. There are a few people that were running stage 1 and got knock but they went to Stage 2 and it was gone. It's called not running the right MAP. Also there are other issues that can cause KR. I got 7degs of KR WOT with a STOCK ECU. Every time. Every Log. With the AP I get ZERO.

Oh and guess what. I have NO CUT when WOT. FOR FREE and Not a $35 extra purchase. Each and every added feature on the SB Flash is an extra $35 purchase. Full Cut Fix = Extra, Full Throttle Fix = Extra. And when Cobb releases the No Lift Shift, CEL Fix for Catless DPs, and any other flash modification it will be free. You talk about Cobb mistreating the community. How about $450 Flash that if they tweak it you have to pay to get the tweak. Like that cost was not enough to get updates for free.

You want me to start quoting the posts where peoples cars run like s*** with the SB but as soon as they put in the Bypass it runs great? You want me to quote all the SB cars that popped their motors? Just about every BT car out there, Pale, MilGuy etc popped their motors running the SB. There are issues with all Tuning solutions. It is COMMON. The SB is not immune to them. There are a lot of posts about them. You may see more questions about the AP but that is due to it selling 5 to 1. There are simply more AP's out there.

Not to mention to get the Flash you have to mail your ******* ECU to CPE to get it done. You want a risk? Risk losing your ******* ECU in the mail. That's a risk. Sure you can insure it. Just how long your car is down and the hassle of getting it married to your car and your keys reset. Sure go ahead. Mail your ECU through the postal system. Be my guest. That's a risk I refuse to take.

Here is another tip for you. Get your SB tuned you nub before you go thinking you know what you're talking about. When did you get your SB anyway? According to CPE you didn't have one two weeks ago when you got your flash?

However, even with all the hassle, extra money and time the SB requires, you will NEVER see me say its a bad product. I simply don't feel it's the best product for a certain group of people out there like myself.

Look, I'm done trying to talk sense to a complete moron. Synapse LOL that says it all.

dude, lets set something straight, all this talk you have on this forum you might get away, but try posting some of this stuff you are talking about on other forums and youwill get ripped right in half.

How come I don't see you defending the AP on the threads when Christian, Palerider and yes, even crazy laloosh when he had his speed3, go at it? I don't see you there because you would get owned by your comments.

You want to talk about COBB supporting the community well? How about the hundreds of threads and posts asking COBB and Christian to help them with there crazy knock numbers and there subpar dyno's people are getting with there V103 maps? What does COBB and Christian do? Either pass the blame on the Fuel Pump or ignore them all together. lol, how mature

I didn't put the standback in because of the crazy boost cut I was getting, if if you would have actually READ my post, you would have seen that I said I didn't want to continue modding this car with all the crazy boost cut I was getting. Maybe you should pay attention a little more and read more about how COBB gets called out so much about their bogus claims. lol, Full Throttle control doesn't do anything, they were seriously proven wrong when a stock cx-7 saw 20+hp and 30+tq with just the flash done.

Dude, you are turning this into a AP vs. SB b**** session, if you want to do it, take it to where the ground are pretty even, and yes, I don't know as much as other's on the forums about the AP vs. SB, but the arguements are being made every day, and I'm sorry to say to you, but the SB has been winning for a long time. Don't you remember where someone on the other forum used the AP and a MBC back to back to tune their speed3 and found that the AP actually ran less efficient and gained a couple HP less than the MBC? Of course you don't, you will say you never saw it.

Your asking me to post all these links, but you know on this forum I can't do that.

Lets just end it right here, if you want to continue to make claims about the AP, take it to the other forum where even smarter people than me can rip into you.

 

[Bravnik]

dude, lets set something straight, all this talk you have on this forum you might get away, but try posting some of this stuff you are talking about on other forums and youwill get ripped right in half.

How come I don't see you defending the AP on the threads when Christian, Palerider and yes, even crazy laloosh when he had his speed3, go at it? I don't see you there because you would get owned by your comments.

You want to talk about COBB supporting the community well? How about the hundreds of threads and posts asking COBB and Christian to help them with there crazy knock numbers and there subpar dyno's people are getting with there V103 maps? What does COBB and Christian do? Either pass the blame on the Fuel Pump or ignore them all together. lol, how mature

I didn't put the standback in because of the crazy boost cut I was getting, if if you would have actually READ my post, you would have seen that I said I didn't want to continue modding this car with all the crazy boost cut I was getting. Maybe you should pay attention a little more and read more about how COBB gets called out so much about their bogus claims. lol, Full Throttle control doesn't do anything, they were seriously proven wrong when a stock cx-7 saw 20+hp and 30+tq with just the flash done.

Dude, you are turning this into a AP vs. SB b**** session, if you want to do it, take it to where the ground are pretty even, and yes, I don't know as much as other's on the forums about the AP vs. SB, but the arguements are being made every day, and I'm sorry to say to you, but the SB has been winning for a long time. Don't you remember where someone on the other forum used the AP and a MBC back to back to tune their speed3 and found that the AP actually ran less efficient and gained a couple HP less than the MBC? Of course you don't, you will say you never saw it.

Your asking me to post all these links, but you know on this forum I can't do that.

Lets just end it right here, if you want to continue to make claims about the AP, take it to the other forum where even smarter people than me can rip into you.

You might want to do some searches on the OTHER forums. I have fought with Palerider and Laloosh many many times on this s***.

You are a complete idiot and that's really all it is too it. You have no clue what you're talking about and I'm done. Bringing Laloosh in a a reference pretty much proves that point. I'm done, you're worthless and anyone that listens to you are more of an idiot than you are.

 

[AutoEuphoria]

Why is it so hard to grasp the idea that both are good for different reasons?

I'm behind Bravnik on this one...I see the point of both, and I think they both have their place in the MS3 aftermarket. It's like arguing between a point-and-shoot camera and a full D-SLR with 100 different lenses. One may be more capable than the other, but some people just like the simplicity and features a regular camera will give them...just deal with it.

 

[nighthawk358]

im waiting for the street tune to even consider an AP..i'll be waiting and if the reviews are gold i will get an AP..if not i will buy a SB.

 

[Alexsered]

Why is it so hard to grasp the idea that both are good for different reasons?

I'm behind Bravnik on this one...I see the point of both, and I think they both have their place in the MS3 aftermarket. It's like arguing between a point-and-shoot camera and a full D-SLR with 100 different lenses. One may be more capable than the other, but some people just like the simplicity and features a regular camera will give them...just deal with it.

that is a good comparison, except the point-and-shoot is trying to claim it can take the same quality pictures as the D-SLR. lol

Bravnik, do you use the same SN on the other forums? Because, I don't see you discussing anything on there with the other guys. And I know Laloosh is a little crazy, that's why I said it in my posts, but you know what, he asks good questions and some that put Christian on the spot.

I can see now that when you get called out, you get a little heated, your tone on your posts completely chainged, and now your calling me an idiot for supporting a better and safer product. I love how you say you are not biased about a product and that you hate when people say false information about the AP, except I'm asking legitamit questions and pointing out the false claims that COBB has been making and than you get all heated. Looks like fanboyism to me if anything else.

Remember, all knew about was COBB when I bought my speed3, I was going to go all COBB because they were reputable and they were going to make every part that I need, but after I saw there tuning solution, and how they deal with customers and there questions, and how they put out false claims that time after time have slapped them back in the face, I decided to stay away from COBB, I'm not going to support a company like that.

So lets just end it here before you go kill someone

 

[Bravnik]

that is a good comparison, except the point-and-shoot is trying to claim it can take the same quality pictures as the D-SLR. lol

Bravnik, do you use the same SN on the other forums? Because, I don't see you discussing anything on there with the other guys. And I know Laloosh is a little crazy, that's why I said it in my posts, but you know what, he asks good questions and some that put Christian on the spot.

I can see now that when you get called out, you get a little heated, your tone on your posts completely chainged, and now your calling me an idiot for supporting a better and safer product. I love how you say you are not biased about a product and that you hate when people say false information about the AP, except I'm asking legitamit questions and pointing out the false claims that COBB has been making and than you get all heated. Looks like fanboyism to me if anything else.

Remember, all knew about was COBB when I bought my speed3, I was going to go all COBB because they were reputable and they were going to make every part that I need, but after I saw there tuning solution, and how they deal with customers and there questions, and how they put out false claims that time after time have slapped them back in the face, I decided to stay away from COBB, I'm not going to support a company like that.

So lets just end it here before you go kill someone

I use the same name on all forums. Feel free to look it up. The OTHER forum you mention I go too all the time but there has not been much said on it lately that was out of line, so I make general comments from time to time. I only get vocal when there is blatant false information being spewed about a product I know damn well is good.

Please show me the false claims that Cobb has said about the AP. It really has come time for you to start backing up your accusations man. I really want to see these false claims.

 

[Alexsered]

I use the same name on all forums. Feel free to look it up. The OTHER forum you mention I go too all the time but there has not been much said on it lately that was out of line, so I make general comments from time to time. I only get vocal when there is blatant false information being spewed about a product I know damn well is good.

Please show me the false claims that Cobb has said about the AP. It really has come time for you to start backing up your accusations man. I really want to see these false claims.

you know exactly what I'm talking about, them trying to dis CP-E SPECIFICALLY about there full control flash and trying to post all there data about how there were no HP gains, except when the stock cx-7 saw 20+ hp gains with just the flash. You know EXACTLY what i'm talking about if you spend any time on the other forums. Laloosh and Palerider called COBB out and guess what, now COBB has a version of the full control in there v103 maps. How sad, this happens all the time, and it going to happen with the boost cut issue too. This is what COBB does, admit it.

 

[mspHtown]

You might want to do some searches on the OTHER forums. I have fought with Palerider and Laloosh many many times on this s***.

You are a complete idiot and that's really all it is too it. You have no clue what you're talking about and I'm done. Bringing Laloosh in a a reference pretty much proves that point. I'm done, you're worthless and anyone that listens to you are more of an idiot than you are.

1) rofl
2) true

 

[Bravnik]

you know exactly what I'm talking about, them trying to dis CP-E SPECIFICALLY about there full control flash and trying to post all there data about how there were no HP gains, except when the stock cx-7 saw 20+ hp gains with just the flash. You know EXACTLY what i'm talking about if you spend any time on the other forums. Laloosh and Palerider called COBB out and guess what, now COBB has a version of the full control in there v103 maps. How sad, this happens all the time, and it going to happen with the boost cut issue too. This is what COBB does, admit it.

Find the post. Post it up. I want to see it. I have no clue what you're talking about. Don't just put out random s*** without a way to back it up man.

 

[SuperStretch18]

Find the post. Post it up. I want to see it. I have no clue what you're talking about. Don't just put out random s*** without a way to back it up man.

Not trying to get even close to this pissing match, but the CPE CX-7 flash does pull a pretty high gain:

It's kind of apples to oranges though, since throttle control is different in the CX-7 anyway. That's not what the MS3 or MS6 see.

This isn't an issue for me, as I only have one tuning solution anyway, but if there were two, it would be pretty easy to see that some folks would prefer one over another, based on their goals. Both have pros and cons.

Honestly, if I were trying to make the OP's decision and saw this thread, I would just buy an XEDE... (braindead

 

[Alexsered]

yeah, I'm done with this thread, there is so much out there disputing so much what COBB claims and Bravnik now pretends he doesn't see any of it.

To the OP, the quote earlier was pretty good, "It's like arguing between a point-and-shoot camera and a full D-SLR with 100 different lenses."

nuff said.

 

[Bravnik]

LOL me too at this point - Oh I have no doubt that the CX7 got gains it's just a moot point as there is no AP solution for the CX7 to compare with. Both the AP and the SB have Full Throttle Control for the MS3 as it is so that in itself is a moot point. I wanted to see where Cobb says there is no way it would make any gain with just a Full Control Flash like he said they did.

 

[Bravnik]

yeah, I'm done with this thread, there is so much out there disputing so much what COBB claims and Bravnik now pretends he doesn't see any of it.

To the OP, the quote earlier was pretty good, "It's like arguing between a point-and-shoot camera and a full D-SLR with 100 different lenses."

nuff said.

I don't pretend anything. I simply asked you to backup your claims. You make comments like they are truth with nothing to support them. I make comments and I support them with links to prove them.

 

[Alexsered]

LOL me too at this point - Oh I have no doubt that the CX7 got gains it's just a moot point as there is no AP solution for the CX7 to compare with. Both the AP and the SB have Full Throttle Control for the MS3 as it is so that in itself is a moot point. I wanted to see where Cobb says there is no way it would make any gain with just a Full Control Flash like he said they did.

http://www.mazdas p e e d f o r u m s . o r g / f o r u m / m a z d a s p e e d - 3 - 6 - e c u - c o m p u t e r - t u n i n g / 5 3 3 7 - brief-study-analyzing-effects-throttle-mapping-have-ms3-engine-output.html

COBB tried to put this crap out saying full throttle did nothing. haha, they looked pretty dumb after this post. And guess what, now they offer a version of throttle control on their AP maps, but wait, I thought it did nothing?? lol

PEACE, I'M OUT

 

[Aricjm15]

If someone wanted to go "all out" I would use the Access Port AND The Xede. From what I have personally experienced out of tuning both the Xede and the Standback it is my personal opinion that the Xede just works better.