Cobb SF Intake released

[civic si hb]

i already have an ms cai so no go for me but for those who want an intake for half the price and no brainer installation this might be an answer , some people cant afford 200 bucks to install the cai nor do they want to venture into taking some parts out so this might be perfect for them. the positive i take from this is : intake is out, exhaust next and then hopefully the ap will be released , as long as the r&d is moving in the right direction at cobb is all good........

I just checked cobb's site and it show's $175.00 and i'm not sure if that includes shipping or not. It'll defiantly be easier to install than the cold air and cobb's got a great name with the suby guys.

Anyone have a clue or heard any rumors of when(what month) the AP will be coming out of the MS3?

 

[shark77]

Anyone have a clue or heard any rumors of when(what month) the AP will be coming out of the MS3?

Around SEMA is what has been floated about recently. So what is that, the end of October or so... But that is not firm as always!

As far as the power goes for the intake, what is also nice is that it mellows out the power drop after 5500rpm. In fact at 6200rpm the power difference is ~25whp.

 

[civic si hb]

Around SEMA is what has been floated about recently. So what is that, the end of October or so... But that is not firm as always!

As far as the power goes for the intake, what is also nice is that it mellows out the power drop after 5500rpm. In fact at 6200rpm the power difference is ~25whp.

I've got a real bad itch for the AP. My credit card is just waiting..... and I hope when they release it it'll have stage1 and 2

 

[AllLostThings]

Yes Cobb is a great quality name. I've got a few friends with Scoobys and they swear by the stuff. If I hadn't just bought and installed my CAI I'd get one.

 

[Haltech]

And you got your degree in automotive engineering from where exactly? (no)


Cobb is famous for some serious product design, development & testing before introducing it. I implicitly trust their design. I just ordered mine.

They plan to offer a carbon fiber box that feeds off the vent path beneath the grill openings that feed the TMIC ram.

(hah) I suppose these Cobb engineers are just as stupid as those dumb-ass Mazda engineers that allowed the stock airbox to feed from the same basic place.

How the **** would you know what i have a degree in? Look at the design and edit your post. Lets choke the motor some more with that design by pulling in hot air from the top and sucking a little bit of cold air from a straw. I cant even believe Cobb allowed that design to be manf.

If you want to fix their design, open the bottom of that box with 2 hoses pulling cold air up to it from the front. But, whats the point? Cold Air Intake design solves this problem. I guess since Cobb designed it, it has to be better than anything else out there, right? (jerkit)

Theres a reason every car manf designs their airbox the way they do... If you cant figure that much out, time for you to go back to school junior.


I guess its time to prepare for the Cobb cheerleaders on this board...

 

[SharkDiver]

Cant you just put a cone filter in your stock air box and get the same results...I did that to my RX8 before there was any cai for it.Im thinking a K&N filter and some holes in the stock box will do the same as this.

 

[MS3ICA]

hey shark what happend with your boost leak did you get it fixed?

 

[MS3ICA]

no man even though theres a sheild that 360 air makes a huge diff vs a k & n filter

Cant you just put a cone filter in your stock air box and get the same results...I did that to my RX8 before there was any cai for it.Im thinking a K&N filter and some holes in the stock box will do the same as this.

whoops!!!!!! i diin't read your post completely....sorry , what you said does seem plausable.....

 

[SharkDiver]

hey shark what happend with your boost leak did you get it fixed?

I just bought the stuff today.I will test it in a few days I hope..Thx

 

[MS3ICA]

hope it goes smoothly bro i know that must suck!, its got to be something minor it shouldn't be to bad to fix let me know, hope its an easy solved issue!!

 

[MS3ICA]

whoops shark,on the air box thread i didn't read your post completely. !!! what you said does seem plausable!

 

[shark77]

Hmm, Dave@Cobb isn't right about how having an intercooler mitigates the affect of having a warmer pre-turbo intake charge. The rules of thermodynamics still apply to turbo charged cars. If a turbo is sucking in hotter air the post turbo charge will be hotter still. Since Newton's law of cooling still applies the air will be warmer after it leaves the intercooler compared to a car with a turbo sucking in cooler air.

The arguement is that the difference in temperature exiting a well designed IC is not substantial.

Example:

Assumptions
Ambient air temperature is 70F.

Using the MS3.
Boost is 15.6psi.
Intercooler Efficiency is 90%.

CAI draws at 70F.
SRI draws at 120F (assumed at a worse case scenario).

CAI

Inlet Temp: 70F
Outlet Temp: 190F
After IC Temp: 82F
Density: 2.42g/L

SRI

Inlet Temp: 150F
Outlet Temp: 252F
After IC Temp: 88F
Density: 2.39g/L

Conclusion

Difference in density: 0.03g/L

What this shows is that there is only an advantage of 1.2% in power gains by using the CAI assuming only temperature as the variable. Ultimately if the IC was designed well enough to be 100% effcient, there would be no difference in power.

 

[shark77]

Lets choke the motor some more with that design by pulling in hot air from the top and sucking a little bit of cold air from a straw. I cant even believe Cobb allowed that design to be manf.

If you want to fix their design, open the bottom of that box with 2 hoses pulling cold air up to it from the front. But, whats the point? Cold Air Intake design solves this problem. I guess since Cobb designed it, it has to be better than anything else out there, right? (jerkit)

They are pulling air from the front of the car and from under the box. The top is covered so it won't be pulling air from there.

The scoop that we are working to get on the box does take air from the hole behind the scoop for the stock intercooler, but it does get air from below/behind the scoop. It is not blocked off. We checked that out while we were designing it.

I guess reasons why people wouldn't want to go the typical CAI route is because it takes longer to install and is more difficult to service the filter. Perhaps they view this as a cleaner look. I don't know. BEGI and Autoexe went with this too. They aren't exactly slap stuff together and push it out the door companies.

 

[MonDubious]

The arguement is that the difference in temperature exiting a well designed IC is not substantial.

Example:

Assumptions
Ambient air temperature is 70F.

Using the MS3.
Boost is 15.6psi.
Intercooler Efficiency is 90%.

CAI draws at 70F.
SRI draws at 120F (assumed at a worse case scenario).

CAI

Inlet Temp: 70F
Outlet Temp: 190F
After IC Temp: 82F
Density: 2.42g/L

SRI

Inlet Temp: 150F
Outlet Temp: 252F
After IC Temp: 88F
Density: 2.39g/L

Conclusion

Difference in density: 0.03g/L

What this shows is that there is only an advantage of 1.2% in power gains by using the CAI assuming only temperature as the variable. Ultimately if the IC was designed well enough to be 100% effcient, there would be no difference in power.

Those aren't realistic assumptions. IC efficiency is almost never above 75%. And you can't reuse this efficiency number (for a different turbo or even boost level) if you have computed it empirically because its not linear. It also doesn't take into account how thermoclines will develop in the intake, etc etc.

Not to mention that hot pre-turbo air can push the turbo right off its efficiency island, especially if someone is already pushing the turbo.

 

[desperado-c]

Those aren't realistic assumptions. IC efficiency is almost never above 75%. And you can't reuse this efficiency number (for a different turbo or even boost level) if you have computed it empirically because its not linear. It also doesn't take into account how thermoclines will develop in the intake, etc etc.

Not to mention that hot pre-turbo air can push the turbo right off its efficiency island, especially if someone is already pushing the turbo.

Okay, so he took a stab at it without comprehending all the subtleties. Are you saying Cobb's professed 1% difference in output due to the extra heat is likely a little low, way low, or that it could vary greatly enough to be disturbing?

 

[clos561]

And you got your degree in automotive engineering from where exactly? (no)


Cobb is famous for some serious product design, development & testing before introducing it. I implicitly trust their design. I just ordered mine.

They plan to offer a carbon fiber box that feeds off the vent path beneath the grill openings that feed the TMIC ram.

(hah) I suppose these Cobb engineers are just as stupid as those dumb-ass Mazda engineers that allowed the stock airbox to feed from the same basic place.

so that means ur pretty much gona pay $175.00 for the sri and then a extra 50-100 for the box to simply replace the stock airbox with another airbox with a different filter......(upbum)

 

[shark77]

Those aren't realistic assumptions. IC efficiency is almost never above 75%. And you can't reuse this efficiency number (for a different turbo or even boost level) if you have computed it empirically because its not linear. It also doesn't take into account how thermoclines will develop in the intake, etc etc.

Not to mention that hot pre-turbo air can push the turbo right off its efficiency island, especially if someone is already pushing the turbo.

Mine was a snapshot example, which was obvious from my assumptions. Of course you can introduce a myriad of variables. Why not include heat transfer on the intake? Last time I checked silicone was a better thermal insulator than aluminium. Or what about flow dynamics? Greater length + more bends = greater restriction. Or the speed of the vehicle?

Also, I based my SRI temp on 120F as to be quite conservative. There is no way that at 30mph the SRI is sucking in 120F temp air when ambient outside air is 70F. Because, there is no way for that air to increase 50F in the amount of time the air exchanges in the engine compartment.

And I used the most optimistic temperature for the CAI.

 

[subparpunk03]

Yes CAI is going to give you the best gains, there are numerous dynos to prove that.

Yes the SRI is easier to get to the filter and provides less bends for less restriction which is important when adding lots of new piping for a front mount.

both the sri and cai have advantages and disadvantages, which is better as a single mod to squeeze every last ounce of power out of the car as is? CAI.

Does the cold air intake get in the way of a FMIC? Maybe, I'm not sure but I'd rather not risk it. Which is the real reason I went with the SRI. Eventually I really want to go front mount, the heatsoak into the top mount drives me nuts. So I decided to go with something that would provide a long term gain, short term.... smaller gain )

So ease up on all the hate on the short rams. Don't need to be sarcastic or mean spirited about it, do you take personal offense when someone makes a decision different than you? both systems have their benefits, and if you want to argue that the short ram has absolutely no benefits over cold air, then you are mistaken. Different products for people that want different things out of their car.

Chill out, I will write an unbiased review of the intake once it gets here and with the cash I saved from not going mazdaspeed CAI I will get it dyno tested and provide the mazda community with real information and not just speculation.

 

[ZooZoom]

so that means ur pretty much gona pay $175.00 for the sri and then a extra 50-100 for the box to simply replace the stock airbox with another airbox with a different filter......(upbum)

stupid is as stupid does. (alright)




and a SRI with a conical hi-flo filter is not the same as a stock panel filter.

 

[Haltech]

So this is designed to use for a front mount ic than? hmm, i figured a better design from the folks at Cobb. To each their own i guess. I dont see people rushing out to get this.

If youre using mandrel bends, its not going to affect flow that much to trade off hot air for cold air. Different strokes for different folks i guess. Goodluck with your purchase and gains.