Clutch in/clutch out?

[happy and angry]

By your ridiculous moon logic, a discussion about brake life would only focus on pad wear and ignore all other components of the brakes that also wear.

Again, what the hell are you smoking? The OP of this thread asked specifically about clutch wear, and Sacrilicious pointed out a component of the clutch that is worn out faster through improper use. Your response is (apparently) "The clutch and the clutch's throwout bearing are totally different." Are you damaged somehow?

 

[ForceFed]

Neiter are being Damaged by his Driving Style..Ignore all other posts and think about this.
Nothing is Being Damaged....And the Clutch is not being Worn by this practice either. No more than Normal.


And by your logic..Everything is connected..and you right...so my Brakelight Bulb Is worn because of when and how I hit my brakes and how much Engine Braking is used, which may cause damage to the engine itself.....Blah blah blah.

And whats with the names....I have stated everything Rationally and you come out calling names.

Easy tiger

 

[ForceFed]

I say to each their own. I have been driving manuals as long as I can remember and I tend to leaave the clutch pedal in at stop lights etc for whatever reason and have only had to replace one throw out bearing/ retainer and it was only because the retainer was a pos design and ford had an upgraded part available. I never really hear a lot of people having problems and there are a LOT of crappy drivers out there. I say just drive it. There should not be a real big wear issue with this until way later down the road. With this car, I bet the clutch goes first anyway. Just my opinion.

This is exactly what I am tryng to say as well.
My point has been stated...and whether its made or not is up to the reader.

I am not here to prove anything.
I can only Share the auotmotive Knowlegde I possess.

 

[happy and angry]

Neiter are being Damaged by his Driving Style..Ignore all other posts and think about this.
Nothing is Being Damaged....And the Clutch is not being Worn by this practice either. No more than Normal.

So if it's not wearing the clutch plate directly it's not wearing the clutch? Wearing components of the clutch doesn't count because it's not wearing the plate? What exactly is "the clutch" in your world, if it's not the individual components of a clutch?

And by your logic..Everything is connected..and you right...so my Brakelight Bulb Is worn because of when and how I hit my brakes and how much Engine Braking is used, which may cause damage to the engine itself.....Blah blah blah.

There are degrees of connectedness, too. In this case, a critical component of the clutch mechanism is being worn more than normal by being used in a manner other than is intended, namely prolonged disengagement. And if it fails prematurely, it will cause the rest of the clutch to also wear prematurely. You are (stupidly) ignoring this because you seem intent on arguing that premature and excessive wear isn't "damage." Extending that logic: missing a shift is just "wear on the gears." Riding the clutch is just "wear on the clutch plate." etc etc etc.

 

[enganear]

The life of the throwout bearing is inversely proportional to load and speed, like any bearing. Let the clutch out in neutral instead of holding in the clutch and you increase the likelihood that the bearing will outlive the clutch. It is not only the throwout bearing, but also the pilot bearing that is being worn by holding in the clutch. It is major work to replace either of these minor bearing components. It is silly not to move the selector to neutral and let the clutch out to minimize the wear on these bearings. This falls into the same category as the silly idea of slipping the clutch to hold position on a hill instead of using the brake.
-enganear

 

[Sacrilicious]

you know what? this is getting stupid. you obviously have a higher bar set for "damage", so let's just wait for blumicar to come back and tell us what he meant when he said "some type of damage".

 

[crystalmeth3]

i have driven stick for a long time. I dont hold the clutch in unless im changing gears.

BUT for the sake of argument... and i dont really want to argue but instead add fuel to this fire...

Holding a clutch in will wear out the throw-out bearing quicker BUT shifting more often will wear the synchros out faster. So if you are in a traffic jam and its stop and go, should you keep it in first with the clutch depressed OR constantly shift into and out of first gear? The answer is "it doesnt matter" whatever you decide you will be wearing something. SO drive however you like with following maintenance schedules and you wont have a problem that could of been prevented anyway.

If someone wants to counter any thing in this post, then... Im wrong and, you win.

 

[Mocoso]

Come on guys... lets not make this a theoretical discussion... when was the last time you saw/heard/or even rumored that a clutch needed to be replaced because a throwout bearing wore out....I dont care what you call it: wear or damage..bottom line is Ive been driving sticks for 25+ years, one car with 180K miles only driven by me before I changed the clutch and NO DAMAGE on the throwout bearing and I sit on the frigin clutch pedal on every red light... (over 15 yrs on the other car with nearly 200K miles but its British so it dont count)
Yes I know everyone gets taught not to sit with clutch in but its done IMHO so beginners dont get into the habit of riding the damn clutch (which will damage the clutch) more so than possible damage/wear you can do to the bearing....
I am sure my clutch will wear out before I wear out the throwout bearing... (edit: come to think of it my damn synchros will prob go out first... damn second gear sucks when cold)

 

[BOOSTR]

It just makes no sense to keep the clutch engaged while you are sitting at a stop light. What are you releasing the clutch for if your not moving? Thowout bearings are not designed to be engaged all of the time. Doesn't mean that it will always fail by engaging in this practice but why risk it? Oh well to each his own as the saying goes.

 

[BluMicaR]

Wow, lmao!

I originally intended to inquire if there was any /damage/ done by leaving the clutch in to coast, or at a red light, with the gear in neutral (or first as in at a red light, waiting). By damage I did mean wear, but not the type as seems would be encountered by just holding the clutch in on this bearing. I meant the kind of wear if you 'feathered' your clutch out for 5-10 seconds (what's that smell??), or if you downshifted into 2nd at 60mph to engine brake (engine break). Seeing as, however, there is more wear caused by holding the clutch in as opposed to releasing it in neutral I am going to retrain myself. Fun for the muscle memory... I may yet hold the clutch in at reds, or stop signs, and with the car in first, accelerate at the appropriate opportunity. I don't know why more people don't have this habit, ill or no, as it's just convenient to be 'ready' with the car in first and the clutch in, foot on the brake. When the light changes, or it's your turn at the 4-way, you ease right into forward momentum again as opposed to fiddling a shift; upon consideration this seems like 'not that much time', but still. If you were sitting beside a Mustang GT and the driver was to be, say, insinuating... Wouldn't you have it in first and the clutch depressed, foot on the brake, ready? Surely if you waited for the light to turn green, then depressed your clutch, then shifted to first, then let the clutch out as you gassed, you'd have lost any opportunity to prevent that person from gaining your lane, in front of you, or inversely the chance to take the spot in front of them in their lane (or in front of them in your lane (drive2)).

What I really wondered was if I am causing any excessive wear (that's damage, but let's not debate more, that's a very objective definition in this area of wear&tear vs /real/ damage) when I get up to, say, 60 in a 40, then coast 2 blocks with the clutch in and the shifter in N to the next light or stop sign. I will stop doing that. I didn't think I was doing anything at all, in my head clutch in=neutral/nothing moving. I was specifically wondering though about forks or synchros and if I risked snapping something or such; my fiancee insisted I was going to 'break' something by keeping it depressed. So, yes, kind of, and no, really.

Thanks everyone!

 

[knowledge007]

Maybe the people how are sitting on the clutch are working out there quads...lmao Other than that I can not come up with a better reason.... To be honest, at a red light or stop and go traffic, well put it to you guys this way, if I am at a stop and I am not able to roll forward or backwards, my feet are not touching anything nor brake or clutch.

 

[BluMicaR]

AS far as at the lights/signs goes, I'm lazy, lmao, I don't want to keep lifting/pushing; doing clutch 'reps' as Knowledge says, hehe.

 

[knowledge007]

Wow, lmao!

I originally intended to inquire if there was any /damage/ done by leaving the clutch in to coast, or at a red light, with the gear in neutral (or first as in at a red light, waiting). By damage I did mean wear, but not the type as seems would be encountered by just holding the clutch in on this bearing. I meant the kind of wear if you 'feathered' your clutch out for 5-10 seconds (what's that smell??), or if you downshifted into 2nd at 60mph to engine brake (engine break). Seeing as, however, there is more wear caused by holding the clutch in as opposed to releasing it in neutral I am going to retrain myself. Fun for the muscle memory... I may yet hold the clutch in at reds, or stop signs, and with the car in first, accelerate at the appropriate opportunity. I don't know why more people don't have this habit, ill or no, as it's just convenient to be 'ready' with the car in first and the clutch in, foot on the brake. When the light changes, or it's your turn at the 4-way, you ease right into forward momentum again as opposed to fiddling a shift; upon consideration this seems like 'not that much time', but still. If you were sitting beside a Mustang GT and the driver was to be, say, insinuating... Wouldn't you have it in first and the clutch depressed, foot on the brake, ready? Surely if you waited for the light to turn green, then depressed your clutch, then shifted to first, then let the clutch out as you gassed, you'd have lost any opportunity to prevent that person from gaining your lane, in front of you, or inversely the chance to take the spot in front of them in their lane (or in front of them in your lane (drive2)).

What I really wondered was if I am causing any excessive wear (that's damage, but let's not debate more, that's a very objective definition in this area of wear&tear vs /real/ damage) when I get up to, say, 60 in a 40, then coast 2 blocks with the clutch in and the shifter in N to the next light or stop sign. I will stop doing that. I didn't think I was doing anything at all, in my head clutch in=neutral/nothing moving. I was specifically wondering though about forks or synchros and if I risked snapping something or such; my fiancee insisted I was going to 'break' something by keeping it depressed. So, yes, kind of, and no, really.

Thanks everyone!

Just curious, but if clutch in=neutrall, then why put the car in neutral...lol Just had to ask. HOpe you had a nice christmas and happy new year.

 

[Sacrilicious]

AS far as at the lights/signs goes, I'm lazy, lmao, I don't want to keep lifting/pushing; doing clutch 'reps' as Knowledge says, hehe.

ok, then technically speaking, you're increasing the chances that your throwout bearing is going to wear out before your clutch. depending on how often you actually do this, it may or may not actually cause you to have to replace something. there's no guarantee either way, but you can decide yourself whether this is worth changing your driving habits for.

 

[BluMicaR]

ok, then technically speaking, you're increasing the chances that your throwout bearing is going to wear out before your clutch. depending on how often you actually do this, it may or may not actually cause you to have to replace something. there's no guarantee either way, but you can decide yourself whether this is worth changing your driving habits for.

Haha, first for Knowledge... For DOUBLE neutral power baby! Yeah. Lol, until now, I hadn't really though of that; but I've left it in gear and depressed the clutch and coasted as well - it's like neutral, except I'm putting more wear on the bearing, which I didn't know until right now!

To Sacrilicious, well... I'm not certain it's going to be easy to retrain myself. I have about 5 years experience in a stick now and it's so muscle memory I push the 'clutch' in and reach for the 'shifter' in my automatic Thunderbird, when I occasionally (summer) drive it. Which, of course, always elicits mockery from any passengers. I'll give it a go.

 

[Sacrilicious]

as far as racing that mustang, there's no reason to worry about holding the clutch in at times like that, because you wouldn't be doing that at every light. the throwout bearing wasn't designed for continuous use, but it was designed to outlast your clutch by a good amount if you don't ride it. it takes a lot of holding the pedal in before it will wear itself out before your clutch plate goes.

 

[Sacrilicious]

Haha, first for Knowledge... For DOUBLE neutral power baby! Yeah. Lol, until now, I hadn't really though of that; but I've left it in gear and depressed the clutch and coasted as well - it's like neutral, except I'm putting more wear on the bearing, which I didn't know until right now!

To Sacrilicious, well... I'm not certain it's going to be easy to retrain myself. I have about 5 years experience in a stick now and it's so muscle memory I push the 'clutch' in and reach for the 'shifter' in my automatic Thunderbird, when I occasionally (summer) drive it. Which, of course, always elicits mockery from any passengers. I'll give it a go.

honestly, since you've already trained yourself for that long, this may not even be worth your time to change. if your throwout bearing goes before your clutch, you may as well replace both when you get them to go in and replace the bearing, because the actual clutch plate will have seen a lot of wear by the time this bearing goes, and both parts themselves are CHEAP compared to the labor costs to take everything apart and put them back together again. both parts are usually replaced at the same time for this reason.

 

[downtube]

why hasn't anybody said anything about his knee for crying out loud. all that excessive loading on his knee joint is going to cause early wear - prolly he'll need a knee replacement at 65 instead of 70.

oh wait, maybe it's the increased reps his knee takes with all those extra clutch-out clutch-in motions that will do more harm.

sorry, just a noob being a smartass.

 

[BluMicaR]

why hasn't anybody said anything about his knee for crying out loud. all that excessive loading on his knee joint is going to cause early wear - prolly he'll need a knee replacement at 65 instead of 70.

oh wait, maybe it's the increased reps his knee takes with all those extra clutch-out clutch-in motions that will do more harm.

sorry, just a noob being a smartass.

Hehe, welcome IN noob, we need more Hoosiers with 'Speed3's.

 

[jville]

lol i started a riot. I saw the reply post and figured its not worth an arguement but hey here we are. In "my" opinion as an ASE certified automotive technician, riding the clutch is not only useless, it can/will cause premature wear, HOW premature has yet to be determined and is not able to be determined due to the vast differences in everyones driving style.