cheap tranny modd???

[Kooldino]

Dana... Fourth gear is a .972 ratio... based on that and assuming a redline of 7000 rpm's I get that he can do roughly 128.5 mph.

I'm assuming a redline of 6500 since that's what redline is on our cars.

Can you show your math?

Based on this calculator I got 112mph @ 6500rpm and 121 @ 7000rpm (ie, way past redline).

I got my gear ratios from this site.

However, your numbers seem to line up if you use what they list as the MSP trans...which is apparently different than the trans in the other Proteges.

Not sure if what's listed as the MSP ratios are correct (these are the same numbers that Edwin has on his FAQ), but I can tell you with 99% certainty that those are not my gear ratios, in any trans I've ever had on this car.

If I had those ratios, I would not have to bring it past redline to get to 60mph (which I know I do), and I know for a fact that I can't hit 88mph at redline in third. I also know that I shift out of fourth and into 5th at around 110mph, because I'm just about to shift into 5th as I finish the quarter mile (@107mph).


Five Speed Manual Transmissions

Trans Model First Second Third Fourth Fifth 2003 MAZDASPEED Protog 3.307 1.842 1.310 0.970 0.755 2003 MAZDA6 i 3.307 1.842 1.233 0.914 0.733 2003 MAZDA6 s 3.153 1.842 1.258 0.947 0.733 5MT 3.136 1.888 1.330 1.000 0.814 M5OD-R1 3.720 2.200 1.500 1.000 0.790 M5OD-R1HD 3.400 2.050 1.310 1.000 0.790 G5M-R 3.666 2.059 1.310 1.030 0.837 G15M-R 3.666 2.059 1.310 1.030 0.837

 

[chris]

120? If that's true, you're WAY past redline.



No, the different 5th gear is even taller, and thus will take even more power to accelerate than the current 5th gear.



Yes, the gear is bigger. However if you can't break 120 in the current 5th gear, you're going to have an even harder time with an even bigger gear.

And I'm not sure what you mean about 5th gear being a reverse?

Also, our stock 5th gears are notably SHORT if anything. I cruise down the highway at 4000rpm. That's insane.

our fifth gear and reverse gear are actually they same gear( from what my tranny guy said) 5th goes one direction and reverse goes another but it is the same gear.

 

[Dpwhitehead1]

this is what came with the motor..from this, what else should i need?i mean its a mean build up, i would have preferred Beaus motor and whatnot, but that may be in time..i dunno yet.


JE PISTONS

PAUTER RODS

ARP HEAD STUD WITH 12 POINT NUT

ARP MAIN BEARING CAP STUD KIT

AWR FRONT & REAR MOTOR MOUNTS

STAINLESS STEEL BRAIDED OIL LINES



TURBO & INTERCOOLER / PIPING:

T3 / T4 HYBRID TURBONETICS TURBO

TURBONETICS EVOLUTION WASTEGATE

HKS SSQ BLOW OFF VALVE

CUSTOM STAINLESS STEEL SPEARCO INTERCOOLER & PIPING

CUSTOM STAINLESS STEEL EXHAUST MANIFOLD



EXHAUST & INTAKE:

CUSTOM STAINLESS STEEL DOWNPIPE

CUSTOM STAINLESS STEEL SHORT RAM AIR INTAKE



EXTRAS:

I'LL ALSO GIVE YOU MSP STRUTS WITH TEIN SPRINGS, AND THE MSP RADIATOR AND FANS AND AIR CONDITIONER CONDENSER THAT SITS IN FRONT OF THE RADIATOR, THESE ARE SMALLER THEN THE MP3 AND MAZDA 5 SO MY PIPING WILL FIT IN THESE CARS.



TRANSMISSION & AXLES:

LSD CAP IS WELDED SEE PICTURE.

RPS CLUTCH-----HOLDS UP TO 400 LBS OF PRESSURE. THIS RPS CLUTCH WAS $500.00 IT'S THE ONLY ONE IN THE WORLD TO HAVE. THE CLUTCH HOLDS MORE POWER THE HOTTER IT GETS AND WEARS AT A MUCH LOWER RATE THEN OTHER MATERIALS WHICH MAKES IT IDEAL FOR DRAG RACING AND HARD ROAD RACING AND HARD STREET RACINGAS WELL. IF YOU WANT TO CHECK THAT THIS IS THE ONLY ONE EVER MADE FOR THIS MOTOR PLEASE CALL RPS AT 818-993-9174

FIDANZA FLYWHEEL

DRIVE SHAFT SHOP AXLES----- THE PROTGE 5 LEVEL 2 HAVE 30% LARGER CENTER MADE FROM 4340 CHROME MOLY THAT IS 4 TIMES STRONGER THEN THE VERY SMALL FACTORY AXLES THEN THEY HAVE NOT ONLY BIGGER IN SIZE BUT HAVE BEEN RE-HE TREATED ,TEMPERED AND DE-STRESSED THEN THEY HAVE SYNTHETIC GREASE, HIGER DUROMETER BOOTS TO TOP IT OFF WHAT THIS MEANS .TO YOU IS THE AXLES WILL HANDLE JUST ABOUT YOU MIGHT OUT THEM TO.THEY CAN HANDLE 400 HP.

 

[Kooldino]

our fifth gear and reverse gear are actually they same gear( from what my tranny guy said) 5th goes one direction and reverse goes another but it is the same gear.

Can you explain this more? Doesn't seem to make sense since 5th gear is so huge and reverse is such a short gear. And if that's the case, then how would you explain the "straight cut gear sound" that reverse has? I'll have to dig up some pictures later from the last time I had my trans apart.

 

[chris]

Can you explain this more? Doesn't seem to make sense since 5th gear is so huge and reverse is such a short gear. And if that's the case, then how would you explain the "straight cut gear sound" that reverse has? I'll have to dig up some pictures later from the last time I had my trans apart.

I can research some more and find out exactly what he meant when he told me this but the different noise from reverse might be because the gear is spinning a different direction at a lower speed, but when in fifth it is spinning faster in the opposite direction. ????? if you find some pics them could you post em? just so we can all find out for sure because I do trust my tranny guy , but I trust pictures in front of my face alot more.as far as fith gear bein huge, from what everybody else is sayin is that it is actually shorter than average, so Idunno.

 

[Kooldino]

I can research some more and find out exactly what he meant when he told me this but the different noise from reverse might be because the gear is spinning a different direction at a lower speed, but when in fifth it is spinning faster in the opposite direction. ?????

Yeah, definitely contact him and ask him for more info.

if you find some pics them could you post em?

Sure.

as fith gear bein huge, from what everybody else is sayin is that it is actually shorter than average, so Idunno.

Nuno, you're misinterpreting what I was saying. I myself said that 5th gear was insanely short (compared to normal 5th gears), but what I meant when I said it was "huge" for a reverse gear is just that. Unless there were some interim gears or something, the gear would be FAR too tall compared to you standard reverse gear. Like 10 times too tall.

But if what you're saying is true, there would have to be some kind of way of GREATLY reducing the ratio.

 

[chris]

Yeah, definitely contact him and ask him for more info.

will do

Sure.



Nuno, you're misinterpreting what I was saying. I myself said that 5th gear was insanely short (compared to normal 5th gears), but what I meant when I said it was "huge" for a reverse gear is just that. Unless there were some interim gears or something, the gear would be FAR too tall compared to you standard reverse gear. Like 10 times too tall.

But if what you're saying is true, there would have to be some kind of way of GREATLY reducing the ratio.

ok, now i understand what you were sayin.I'll try to find out and if you can help me then if this tranny guy is right then we might have a pretty good possible modd, but if he is wrong then ,screw it, I'll leave it like it is beacause from reading this thread, I actually want a shorter gear to sacrifice top speed to gain better acceleration right?

 

[TurfBurn]

You guys need to slow down if I'm going to post in response to all this crap... geez...

Lots of wrong info...

We spent 6 months researching gears and I know exactly which ones are in what and the ratios thereof.. I can tell you Dana that the ratios they listed for the MSP are wrong...

I have to recheck the transmission construction... but I know the reverse idler is inside the trans and that is where the straight cut noise comes from... I do think it does actually use the 5th gear set for reverse... but pairs it weird to make it so short.

 

[TurfBurn]

remember the stock tach reads like 300 rpm's off... I can tell you that in my car at 72-74 on my speedo that my car runs 3100-3200 rpms. which matches the known ratios... I also can tell you that having measured the actual gears in a post 2002.5, and also having every single part number from Mazda for the transmissions and full exploded diagrams thereof, that the part numbers and ratios are all the same...

I'm assuming a redline of 6500 since that's what redline is on our cars.

Can you show your math?

Based on this calculator I got 112mph @ 6500rpm and 121 @ 7000rpm (ie, way past redline).

I got my gear ratios from this site.

However, your numbers seem to line up if you use what they list as the MSP trans...which is apparently different than the trans in the other Proteges.

Not sure if what's listed as the MSP ratios are correct (these are the same numbers that Edwin has on his FAQ), but I can tell you with 99% certainty that those are not my gear ratios, in any trans I've ever had on this car.

If I had those ratios, I would not have to bring it past redline to get to 60mph (which I know I do), and I know for a fact that I can't hit 88mph at redline in third. I also know that I shift out of fourth and into 5th at around 110mph, because I'm just about to shift into 5th as I finish the quarter mile (@107mph).


Five Speed Manual Transmissions

Trans Model First Second Third Fourth Fifth 2003 MAZDASPEED Protog 3.307 1.842 1.310 0.970 0.755 2003 MAZDA6 i 3.307 1.842 1.233 0.914 0.733 2003 MAZDA6 s 3.153 1.842 1.258 0.947 0.733 5MT 3.136 1.888 1.330 1.000 0.814 M5OD-R1 3.720 2.200 1.500 1.000 0.790 M5OD-R1HD 3.400 2.050 1.310 1.000 0.790 G5M-R 3.666 2.059 1.310 1.030 0.837 G15M-R 3.666 2.059 1.310 1.030 0.837

 

[Kooldino]

We spent 6 months researching gears and I know exactly which ones are in what and the ratios thereof.. I can tell you Dana that the ratios they listed for the MSP are wrong...

The ratios they listed for the MSP is apparently the same ratio that you were using in your calculation.

But my main point is that they listed shorter ratios for the G15M-R. And I can tell you with 99.9% certainty that those are the ratios that are in my car. Like I said before, I can't hit 60mph in 2nd gear until well beyond redline. And according to that gear ratio, I shouldn't hit 60mph until 7000rpm. However with the gear ratios they list as the MSP ratios, it would hit 60 at 6200rpm. I'm 100% sure that I don't hit 60mph anywhere close to 6200rpm.

 

[TurfBurn]

The ratios they listed for the MSP is apparently the same ratio that you were using in your calculation.

But my main point is that they listed shorter ratios for the G15M-R. And I can tell you with 99.9% certainty that those are the ratios that are in my car. Like I said before, I can't hit 60mph in 2nd gear until well beyond redline. And according to that gear ratio, I shouldn't hit 60mph until 7000rpm. However with the gear ratios they list as the MSP ratios, it would hit 60 at 6200rpm. I'm 100% sure that I don't hit 60mph anywhere close to 6200rpm.

And I can tell you with 100% certainty that the ratios in your car are the exact same as in the MSP.... add 200 rpms to your calculations and then let me know where you get... and also re-check what you get with your car... I'll re-check mine at lunch for you as well..

here is the calculation:
Ground speed in FPM = (MPH*5280)/60
Wheel RPM = FPM/(3.14*(24.62/12) (24.62in is 215mm*.45*2+17in)
Engine RPM = WRPM*Final Drive (4.105)*Gear Ratio

 

[Kooldino]

remember the stock tach reads like 300 rpm's off...

Even if that were the case, then let's use my 2nd gear example again. According to the gear ratio you used, I should hit 60mph at 6200rpm. But let's say my tach is 300rpm off, just like you said. So in that case, I should hit 60mph at 6200+300=6500rpm. I'm almost positive that this is not the case. Some time ago I distinctly recall doing 0-60mph pulls in my car for a half hour straight, and being dissapointed that I had to go past redline to do it in 2nd gear.

I also can tell you that having measured the actual gears in a post 2002.5, and also having every single part number from Mazda for the transmissions and full exploded diagrams thereof, that the part numbers and ratios are all the same...

If that's the case and the MSP ratios match the MP3 ratios, then my money is on them all being what my source lists as teh G-15MR ratios.

I finish the quarter mile at a hair under redline in 4th, and I'm damn sure not trapping 120mph.

 

[Dpwhitehead1]

turfburn? any ideas on my post..my other post i mean..about what is actually in it?

 

[Kooldino]

also re-check what you get with your car... I'll re-check mine at lunch for you as well..

Word. I take lunch in a half hour, so I'll do it then. I'll try to take a pic with my camera phone, too.

 

[chris]

And I can tell you with 100% certainty that the ratios in your car are the exact same as in the MSP.... add 200 rpms to your calculations and then let me know where you get... and also re-check what you get with your car... I'll re-check mine at lunch for you as well..

here is the calculation:
Ground speed in FPM = (MPH*5280)/60
Wheel RPM = FPM/(3.14*(24.62/12) (24.62in is 215mm*.45*2+17in)
Engine RPM = WRPM*Final Drive (4.105)*Gear Ratio

so basicly guys, we know that 5th and reverse use the same gear.we know that our trans gears are the same as the MSP. what would help my car accelerate in 5th!?

 

[TurfBurn]

turfburn? any ideas on my post..my other post i mean..about what is actually in it?

Yeah.. this other discussion is keeping me too tied up.. and I'm at work and getting some other stuff done...

what I can tell you is that you'll have to redo your motor, and the piping in your turbo kit will be okay probably.. but that's about it... and your clutch won't do the deed.

 

[TurfBurn]

so basicly guys, we know that 5th and reverse use the same gear.we know that our trans gears are the same as the MSP. what would help my car accelerate in 5th!?

some of the checking I did is saying that 5th is not reverse.. but I have to look at the insides of a tranmission again... I have pics of my trans up in a how to.. and I should be able to see what I need from there.

 

[TurfBurn]

so basicly guys, we know that 5th and reverse use the same gear.we know that our trans gears are the same as the MSP. what would help my car accelerate in 5th!?

A different gear that I can get you....

 

[Kooldino]

so basicly guys, we know that 5th and reverse use the same gear.

Well, we don't know that for sure yet...

we know that our trans gears are the same as the MSP.

No we don't. Have you read my last 3 or so posts?

what would help my car accelerate in 5th!?

Well, unless you find even shorter gears for 5th (which I don't reccomend), then you need a better power to weight ratio. Simple as that.

 

[TurfBurn]

Word. I take lunch in a half hour, so I'll do it then. I'll try to take a pic with my camera phone, too.

I won't have pics... but I'll take down numbers... I have an aftermarket tach... also keep in mind that your speedo can read off and that can yield results... one of my buddies with a P5 that I drive around with will get TOTALLY different speeds... when he is doing 76-78 I'm doing 70... so keep that in mind too...