Cel

mazda32008

Member
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mazda3i 2008 M/T!
How do i get rid of a CEL...i installed my thunder header yesterday and have a CEL today. Is there a solution to this? How well does the anti fouler trick work..who over here has even done it? Is there a device like scan gauge to clear CEL's that is under 200$?
 
does your header have that long elbow for the 2nd 02 sensor?

if it does your CEL is due to the sensor not getting up to temp quick enough. you basicaly need to cut the elbow off the midpipe and either cut the threaded end off and weld it into the hole or buy and weld an O2 bung in its place and use the non fouler to space it out of the exhaust stream.
 
yea i have that elbow on it...so basically if i cut the elbow a little bit and have enough room to weld it back on the CEL should go away? How about if i buy a hole new down pipe would that be another solution? what about scan gauge would that get rid of the light for me
 
A CEL only comes on when the computer has detected the problem, and it will remain on until the problem is cleared, even if the problem ceases to exist.

Once the second O2 sensor achieves operating temp, the "problem" is no longer there, even if the CEL remains lit. The computer likely does not change the parameters of its control algorithm based on whether it has detected a problem, so your performance should not change.

The only consequence of having a late O2 sensor is that the car can't quite get the combustion cycle into lean control as early as it would like to. You may run over-rich for longer upon startup and foul your plugs over time.

I am not sure why this car has two O2 sensors. Are you sure that one of them is not an EGT sensor? A lot of modern control platforms for combustion engines are using EGTs in addition to O2 sensors to more precisely control the cycle.

Take, for example, the Continental IO-360 in my airplane. Mixtures in piston aircraft engines are set manually during flight because of the drastically changing air pressure with altitude. As altitude increases, it is necessary to drastically lean the mixture, and since an aircraft piston engine also has to operate with NO available electricity, there's a convenient mixture lever in the cockpit. The only ECU in a piston aircraft is the gooey blob of mush between the pilot's ears :)

There is also an EGT gauge, and typically we set the mixture for peak EGT for best economy, or about 100 degrees rich of peak (lower temp) for best power and cooling (for example, on takeoff). These correspond to the well-known best economy and best power air/fuel ratios.

The car is no different, and under normal driving conditions, it tries to set the air-fuel mixture for best economy (peak EGT) but when you increase the throttle past some certain threshold (determined either by the throttle position sensor or the manifold air pressure sensor, or both) the control algorithm instead aims for the best power mixture (determined by the EGT temp or O2 level, or both).

I've rambled on for a while, but the point is, I don't think you have to worry about the CEL at all if it is indeed caused by a late O2 sensor. You can try installing a heat shield around the pipe leading to the second sensor, or do as was suggested and cut the pipe, but that might dramatically change the fluid dynamics of the exhaust flow and defeat the purpose of the performance modification anyway. You could also try tapping the pipe closer to the engine and installing the O2 sensor there instead.
 
well it seems that something so simple has turned into a headache...i will prob put back my stock headers and get an exhaust and wait till a new set of header comes out that will eliminate the worry of the CEL.
 
its really not that big of a deal man like i said take your your midpipe remove the elbow completely and either weld an 02 bung or the threaded piece from the elbow right onto the pipe...

ehidle its an 02 sensor that is there to check to make sure the cat is working its just a 4 wire so it has its own heater in it and if it doesn't get up to heat intime it tosses a cel. the primary in the header itself is what gives the feedback to the ecu for cycle duty and whatnot.
 
ehidle its an 02 sensor that is there to check to make sure the cat is working its just a 4 wire so it has its own heater in it and if it doesn't get up to heat intime it tosses a cel. the primary in the header itself is what gives the feedback to the ecu for cycle duty and whatnot.

Ok cool, thanks for clearing that up. I've only had one of these for two weeks and I haven't had the chance to go through and familiarize myself with it completely. If winter will ever go away, I'll be able to spend some time outside going through it :D
 
where would i take it to cut and weld? I can solder my self but i don't know if welding is different or not.
 
where would i take it to cut and weld? I can solder my self but i don't know if welding is different or not.

Welding is WAY different than soldering. Welding takes a lot of practice to be good at, so if you're not already into welding, you'll have to take it to an exhaust shop, or find a freelance guy.

Like I have said, if this is a performance exhaust part, the length does matter and the designers made it that way for a good reason. If you go cutting pieces out of it, you may end up negating any performance improvement you may get from it, or actually making the performance worse. You should probably contact the manufacturer and ask them if it is okay to cut pieces out.
 
yea it is ok to cut peieces out the piece that tsunami is talking about is the only piece that needs to be modified. I have spoken with one of the sponsors on another forum who sells this product and knows everything about it and he has also said the same thing since the little pipe is so far out of the path of the down pipe the sensor doesn't reach temp.
 
i was the US tester for these parts and pretty much everyone you are going to talk to is going to say the same thing as they all came to me for advice in the first place...

ehidle picture a tube (its the midpipe between the collector of the header and the cat back) it has a long tiny elbow coming off of it probably 4-6" then a 90* and another 6" or so. this design worked on the reg protege and p5 to trick the ecu into thinking that the 02 was working correctly. but like i said we have a 4 wire sensor and it has its own internal heater and thermal couple and if it doesn't get up to heat soon enough you get the cel. if you put it closer to the exhaust stream the issue goes away.
 
i was the US tester for these parts and pretty much everyone you are going to talk to is going to say the same thing as they all came to me for advice in the first place...

ehidle picture a tube (its the midpipe between the collector of the header and the cat back) it has a long tiny elbow coming off of it probably 4-6" then a 90* and another 6" or so. this design worked on the reg protege and p5 to trick the ecu into thinking that the 02 was working correctly. but like i said we have a 4 wire sensor and it has its own internal heater and thermal couple and if it doesn't get up to heat soon enough you get the cel. if you put it closer to the exhaust stream the issue goes away.

I think I understand how it is put together. My concern has to do with the fact that the way exhausts are designed, at least last I checked, the length of the tube was determined in part to set or cancel desired resonances in the system to better streamline the flow of gas through the system. If you cut several inches out of the length of the system, it may change those resonances in such a way that is detrimental to gas flow.

For example, a muffler is just a series of pipes designed to cancel out the natural resonances coming from the upstream exhaust system (factory quiet), while still allowing smooth, efficient gas flow. Or, it can be a series of pipes design to resonate and amplify those resonances (fart cannons).

I don't know, the effects may be completely negligible, but until you do the math, who knows?

If it were me, I'd just tap a new hole for the second O2 sensor farther up the stream so the temperature comes up faster, or I'd realize what the CEL was for and ignore it as a "special circumstance" of my setup :)
 
Nice to know we have some intelligent people here. I feel better about cutting the little pipe now (thanks to tsunami) and will get it done soon..when i have time but how much should cutting a simple pipe and welding the little piece where the o2 screws in cost...50$? Ehidle, i think you are thinking too much lol but you have some interesting things there. Tapping a new hole would be too much work IMO, it'd be easier to just cut and weld in the same spot.
 
yeah the elbow coming off the midpipe is only for the the 02 sensor bypass and has nothing to do with exhaust flow patterns like you are thinking ehidle. you make valid points but that instance doesn't relate to what we are discussing. if i can find a pic of it will post it up so you and others can see.


as far as cost goes i had a friend who can weld do it as taking that pipe out is pretty simple. if you don't have a friend who can do this for you i would still recomend taking the pipe out yourself and bringing it to an exhaust shop other wise they will look at you like you have 3 eyes trying to explian what you want them to do.it will save you money time and a headache trust me....
 
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