camshafts or HC pistons?

[Installshield 2]

damnit, if only I could find some stand alone management for my HC.

Moose

you do have a couple of options readily available...Is it the price, or that you can't find any?

Most standalones are universal, so they work with almost any engine...some are easier to use than others however...

Haltech's E6X (which recently superceded the famous E6K) is an excellent system with a number of triggers and functions perfect for the FS...and also I think it will work with the factory alternator...(they go for about $1100 with software, check E-bay though I usually see them new for around $900)

TEC-II and TEC-III's are hellishly expensive but unbeatable for options...(they range in the upper $2500 from what I remember)

now the big one...AEM just released the first series of their "plug and play" stand alone's that just bolt right into the factory wiring harness...nothing needs to be changed or ****** with...but since they are model specific, you can't purchase any AEM EMS and as of now one isn't available for protege's yet...I haven't had a chance to contact them on if it ever will, but AEM usually makes s*** for the entire import community and with the new 3 base model utilizing the Fs-DE (don't quote me on that, I just read that it is a 16v 2.0L rated at 130bhp for the base Mazda 3, and the 2.3L 160bhp engine from the base Mazda 6 being available for the upper trim 3's...someone that knows for sure please correct me) the market for it should keep growing...the going rate for the AEM EMS is around $1400...with no installation fees becuase you can easily do it yourself?

FWIW are your pistons installed or are you just weighting for a good ECU upgrade?

 

[mp3moose]

Pistons having been in the engine for almost a year now. I have heard of AEM's stuff but no application for the protege, as of yet anyway. Haltech would be nice, but I am waiting for direct plug in and/or possibly spool's new engine management.

I almost bought an e-manage but heard they were crap for NA engines and for accuracy as well. So basically I am just waiting/saving up some of the green stuff.

Moose

 

[akhilleus]

So how did the HC pistons work without the new ECU? Are they drivable? Were there good power gains or is everythin ****** up. Does the mp3 ecu help. let us know

 

[Captain KRM P5]

the FS series engine is dead - the base Mazda3 uses a new model 2.0 unrelated to the old FS 2.0

 

[mp3moose]

Well, it runs just like stock for me. Better power through the rpm's and maybe 5 hp. I just a little edge on other proteges. Not a 60 hp gain or anything nuts like that.

Moose

 

[Installshield 2]

the FS series engine is dead - the base Mazda3 uses a new model 2.0 unrelated to the old FS 2.0

that settles it then...I knew the FS was a dinosaur, being around since the early 80's somewhat...wasn't sure if some Ford CEO influenced Mazda with "So what if it is old, we have been using the same pushrod terds since the 60's"...

Well ****...we should create a petition of some sort to send to AEM, regarding the creation of an EMS for the FS, reading "do it and you shall be spared..."

 

[Installshield 2]

Well, it runs just like stock for me. Better power through the rpm's and maybe 5 hp. I just a little edge on other proteges. Not a 60 hp gain or anything nuts like that.

Moose

Hell if it still runs I guess I was a little pesimistic about it...with proper tuning you would have much more of an edge on stock protege's though...

 

[mp3moose]

And boy would I love it! Get me a nice/somewhat cheap plug and play and I am there. I want some corksport cams aswell. And a header is in the works.

Moose

 

[Installshield 2]

the AEM EMS is somewhat cheap stand alone wise, and very cheap once you consider installation costs of a universal controller...But I fear we need to cross our fingers elsewhere on a plug and play stand alone for the FS...

 

[mp3moose]

Agreed. Spool you listening?? Anybody??

Moose

 

[akhilleus]

You installed HC pistons and got 5hp!!! OMG well that settles it..cams it is.....for now.

 

[chdesign]

Actually with the cams letting in more air would theroretically lean out hte mixture but with the way that the proteges ECU's is designed it doesn't matter up until it goes to open loop. Once you pass the open loop threshold only then will you see a leaner mixture while still in closed loop the ECU will override ANYTHING you do to it to maintain a 14.7:1 a/f ratio. The HC pistons are a good upgrade if you are planning on getting full engine managment later down the line but for just putting them in they offer little power gain. Tripoint runs close toa 13:1 ratio in the SWC cars. If you are going to go NA then put your money into a good port and polish and a 3 or 5 angle valve job this is where you will see the most power for your money in NA. Turbo is an option obviously and you will never get the power NA from teh FS-DE that you will with FI but its all a matter of personal taste.

 

[akhilleus]

and money....The NA project can be dealt with in pieces...trust me if i could get a turbo i would...Then i could compete with my friends 200+ hp SAAB SPG. I might end up stopping my engine buildup after the cams to focus on other aspects...interior,exterior, handling.... thanks for the info

 

[Installshield 2]

Actually with the cams letting in more air would theroretically lean out hte mixture but with the way that the proteges ECU's is designed it doesn't matter up until it goes to open loop. Once you pass the open loop threshold only then will you see a leaner mixture while still in closed loop the ECU will override ANYTHING you do to it to maintain a 14.7:1 a/f ratio. The HC pistons are a good upgrade if you are planning on getting full engine managment later down the line but for just putting them in they offer little power gain. Tripoint runs close toa 13:1 ratio in the SWC cars. If you are going to go NA then put your money into a good port and polish and a 3 or 5 angle valve job this is where you will see the most power for your money in NA. Turbo is an option obviously and you will never get the power NA from teh FS-DE that you will with FI but its all a matter of personal taste.

I thought Open Loop mode refered to partial throttle positions in which the ignition/fuel requirements were used to make adjustments, and the ECU could alter these requirements throughout the whole rev range...and Closed loop refered to WOT after 3800rpm or something (in certain conditions you can actually feel the transition, that being the air/fuel mixture goes dead rich) and only preset fuel maps were used...is this reversed like said...meaning closed loop is the sensor using mode?...

Chdesign is right though...no differences will be made realisticly at partial throttle positions becuase more fuel will get squirted in...but at WOT and especially from 5500rpm up, the mixture will tend to lean out a bit...Don't take this the wrong way though...the ECU will still recognize the changes, and therefor map in a little more fuel...but there will be physically more air in the chambers, and probably more fuel as well...Detonation will not be a problem with these cams,...and they do not increase air intake to the point of the engine running dangerously lean...

 

[akhilleus]

Oh i dont believe the cams are ground aggressivley enough to do that. These are j-spec cams so they are fairly chill. Also since th p5 runs a little rich..the extra air should be matched quite well. otherwise i could use higher octane gas... but the compression difference isnt as drastic as on the HC pistons and i have never heard of problems with the cams. The only issues with cams are making sure they are well matched so idle and start arent adversely affected. Even then the only true case i heard of regarding this was with someone who put tripoint cam gears @ 2 degrees with cams and had some problems

 

[chdesign]

well actually the open loop closed loop modes on teh protege are not based on WOT. They are based on engine load. You could be in 4th gear at 45% throttle but if you have enough load on teh motor is will throw it into closed loop.(sorry I had those backwards)

 

[Installshield 2]

ok thats fine, I didn't know if I had them confused...and yeah I had read some info on the mode triggers being pretty confusing...In some conditions with the A/C on the ECU would switch to closed loop at any throttle postion above 4800rpm...I think that came from traveler...Not sure if it is correct or not...

anyway, the ECU will still always be in closed loop at WOT however right? Meaning the ECU will switch to closed loop on various conditions and loads at partial throttle, but will always be in closed loop at WOT regardless of load...is this incorrect? If there is a way to confuse the mode triggers, you could potentially disable closed loop theoretically? But the info I had stated the ECU cannot control the engine at full throttle with the sensors alone, and will always switch to closed loop at WOT when engine speeds are above 3300 rpm...

 

[chdesign]

Actually no it is based on engine load + the 4800 rpm limit. This was discovered by Flyin Miata on their protege 5 project car

 

[TheMAN]

ummm...

close loop = monitor all sensors and respond accordingly
open loop = ignore all sensors but MAF and do what is "good"

 

[Installshield 2]

alright...I did have them reversed...and my knowledge of the stock ECU seems to be a bit dated...

so which part did I have reversed? The ECU runs on open loop after 4800rpm or with a certain load limit, and I just mixed up the close/open loop definitions? or the ECU runs on close loop after 4800rpm, in which case it monitors all sensor output?