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Dexter said:
Sorry, meant to say rods...
Callaway Cars!
- Thread starter RAAZ227
- Start date
Sorry, meant to say rods...
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BinaryRotary said:
Who worte the programming??
The box doesn't matter, it's who wrote the program.
The ECU is great, it can do a lot of stuff. The program inside the ECU is what is messed up. Hence the flash...
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03MSP said:
No, no more Mazdaspeed Proteges...
I haven't heard anything about a Mazdaspeed3.
The Miata and 6 should come out before a 3 version.
OrangeAppeal
Member
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- '03 MSP - #729 - '90 CRX Si
I'm sorry...but I have to chime in here.
MSP Engine = Stock Protege/MP3 engine + turbo
NO Forged internals (Pistons or Rods)
Second, Callaway did a fine job that Mazda had to take and dumb down for numerous reasons.
Original Callaway design had/has hard pipes. (supposedly, Mazda/Ford used plastic piping for crash test/safety/money reasons)
Original Callaway design has it's own PCM progamming that Mazda/Ford went and changed for whatever reasons (longevity, reliability with inexperienced drivers, reliability when poor quality gas is used, emissions, possible warranty issues caused by stupid drivers, etc...)
Have any of you seen the Original Callaway MSP (MP3 converted to turbo) or talked to any of the people who were involed with it or drive it (I haven't, but have talked to a few knowledgable/reliable/credible people who have). It didn't/doesn't have the hesitation issues we are all aware of.
The rest of my info is purely opinion/speculation on my part.
Callaway designs low production (sub 100 or soo) vehicles based off of existing cars...Mazda hired them to mate a turbo to a engine and have it run properly, and that is what they did. They didn't build an engine to put out gobbs of power...that was not their goal. Then Mazda took what Callaway did and adjusted some things for one reason or another (see above possible reasons). Mazda had to keep production under a certain $$$ amount, soo they had to cut a corner here or there (see Racing Beat design on bushing placement).
Mazda is doing future Mazdaspeed designing in house, because it ends up being cheaper, and maybe Callaway refused future contracts because of the problems that us MSP owners are complaining about.
Maybe you guys are right, maybe I'm right, maybe we are both wrong...but try to keep an open mind about it....WE DON'T KNOW THE REASONING, we can only speculate (unless, of course, you are a higher up in Mazda who made the decisions)
MSP Engine = Stock Protege/MP3 engine + turbo
NO Forged internals (Pistons or Rods)
Second, Callaway did a fine job that Mazda had to take and dumb down for numerous reasons.
Original Callaway design had/has hard pipes. (supposedly, Mazda/Ford used plastic piping for crash test/safety/money reasons)
Original Callaway design has it's own PCM progamming that Mazda/Ford went and changed for whatever reasons (longevity, reliability with inexperienced drivers, reliability when poor quality gas is used, emissions, possible warranty issues caused by stupid drivers, etc...)
Have any of you seen the Original Callaway MSP (MP3 converted to turbo) or talked to any of the people who were involed with it or drive it (I haven't, but have talked to a few knowledgable/reliable/credible people who have). It didn't/doesn't have the hesitation issues we are all aware of.
The rest of my info is purely opinion/speculation on my part.
Callaway designs low production (sub 100 or soo) vehicles based off of existing cars...Mazda hired them to mate a turbo to a engine and have it run properly, and that is what they did. They didn't build an engine to put out gobbs of power...that was not their goal. Then Mazda took what Callaway did and adjusted some things for one reason or another (see above possible reasons). Mazda had to keep production under a certain $$$ amount, soo they had to cut a corner here or there (see Racing Beat design on bushing placement).
Mazda is doing future Mazdaspeed designing in house, because it ends up being cheaper, and maybe Callaway refused future contracts because of the problems that us MSP owners are complaining about.
Maybe you guys are right, maybe I'm right, maybe we are both wrong...but try to keep an open mind about it....WE DON'T KNOW THE REASONING, we can only speculate (unless, of course, you are a higher up in Mazda who made the decisions)
RAAZ227 said:I think Mazda could have gone to a little more extreme with the MSP. Look at cars now a days. SRT-4, EVO, STi, factory tuned, right! Now I know 2 of those cars are not in the same bracket, but they could have made there HP numbers a little more desirable. I mean they did the Suspension right, the Protege is good platform off the bat. I think the MSP has lost some sales to the SRT-4.I hope the nect generation MSP will put out over 200hp
From what I heard, the STi has had it's share of problems regarding engine knock and re-flashes too. SRT-4, just check their forums and see the problems they've been having. Regarding the EVO, I don't follow it so I've got no clue. Point is, a lot of higher performing vehicles will have an assortment of problems, not just the MSP.
spacemonkey
Member
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- Mazdaslow
Thats exactly what I posted before...they probally faced budget restraints. The MSRP was around $21,500. If they did anything more on the car it would bump up the price...to lets say 22K-23K. Then who would get a MSP? WRXs are that price $24,495 MSRP? Again its pure speculation but there probally is a reason for detuning the MSP, its most likely $$$. It all comes down to $$$.
I know most of you were not expecting a perfect car (power, handling and good looks) for $21,000
I know most of you were not expecting a perfect car (power, handling and good looks) for $21,000
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BinaryRotary
Member
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- 03 MSP, 85 RX-7 GS, 90 RX-7 TII
Dexter said:
And Visteon was spun off of Ford in 2000. Which make what I said about the ECU being Ford 100% accurate.
So from what I've read the ECU is the same old Ford/Mazda part but Callaway did the programming and then Mazda may have taken that and screwed it up before giving it to us.
Whoever did the ECU programming OR changed it OR decided not to ship whatever Callaway may have made deserves a (wedge).
It's a shame that a couple of decisions made during finalizing the product have ended up costing so much to fix (ECU, clunk).
Whoever did the ECU programming OR changed it OR decided not to ship whatever Callaway may have made deserves a (wedge).
It's a shame that a couple of decisions made during finalizing the product have ended up costing so much to fix (ECU, clunk).
RAAZ227 said:I think Mazda could have gone to a little more extreme with the MSP. Look at cars now a days. SRT-4, EVO, STi, factory tuned, right! Now I know 2 of those cars are not in the same bracket, but they could have made there HP numbers a little more desirable. I mean they did the Suspension right, the Protege is good platform off the bat. I think the MSP has lost some sales to the SRT-4.
Oy, there will be no next generation MSP. As stated above, no more Protege period. From what I have picked up from my sales guy and his Sales manager Mazda originally planned to bring out one Mazda Speed model a year. First, the MSP, than the Miata, than the 6 followed by either the RX-8 or the 3. The idea was to allow the base models to have a few years to work out the bugs before you go modding them. Thus the order. However, the success (yes, I have heard Mazda considered it a success) of the MSP. Has things being expedited. It's possible we could see multiple Mazda Speed releases in the coming model year, but I haven't read of of anything but the Miata. Of course, this is speculation, not fact.
IMO Mazda is going to regret it if they rush multiple models into production. It will take a lot away from the mystique of Mazda Speed.
Now, as to how the Speed compares to the Evo and Sti, please. The Speed itself was a cobbled together project. Seriously, how many models have you ever seen change their actual appearance at the half year? Of course we know that this is because they were originally using the MP3 kit. I think they did damn well and it was kind of cool to watch how they kept developing the car right up through production.
Now, you can't compare two cars that have multiple international rally wins worth of design behind them. The Evo is on its 8th edition now. The Sti has been around in Asia and Australia for at least as long if not longer. Pardon me, I do not posses much knowledge of Scoobys.
The SRT-4 is a fair comparison, but only to a point. Like the Speed it was a quickly engineered design. However, it is designed under a very different philosophy. A much more American one. I believe the expression is something to the extent of bring a gun to a knife fight? In other words they start with an engine with more displacement and stronger internals and then boost the hell out of it. Even more for 2004. The result is a straight line demon. Then they drop it into a low rent car (that actually has a pretty good record for handling). The result is a decently priced car that with a few quick mods has you gunning for much higher rent competition. Albeit in a rather Fugly lil package, IMO.
I obviously prefer Mazda's aproach. Finese. They took a great handling car (the MP3), then went to some really good tuners and made a great handling car with a little more bite. Yes, we all know it has its flaws and god knows no one here would complain had they used a T3/T4. But, for a bunch of companies coming together in a short time on a low production project they did very well. Most importantly, they accomplished their most important task. They tested the waters for Mazda Speed in the US. With a car in its last year of production no less. I think it was a success. With all the comments and compliments I get on my car I have the feeling Mazda has taken a hefty little bite out of the factory tuner market. Let's just all hope it's not more than they can chew.
I look at it this way - I not only have my first ever turbocharged car, but it's also under full warranty and I was able to finance the hell outta the whole package, instead of having to come up with extra dough for the upgrades (that I would have wanted anyway). Once-per-ounce, there just isn't a better value on the road today.
What we should do is send a link of some of our concerns, like the gobble issue and the piss-poor ecu situation over to our friends at Callaway and see if they have any suggestions for helping us right the evildoing from those pesky little Ford and Mazda engineers
What we should do is send a link of some of our concerns, like the gobble issue and the piss-poor ecu situation over to our friends at Callaway and see if they have any suggestions for helping us right the evildoing from those pesky little Ford and Mazda engineers
A followup on the SRT-4 point. I believe that car is an all-Dodge product. No jobs were given to tuners to complete.
What Mazda has been able to do is somehow corral a bunch of tuners to accept responsibility for designing/developing different parts of a complex product, make it so that the physical dis and re-assembly could be done by a different outside source, and then resolve all of the issues that come up during a complex project. I think Mazda has done a pretty amazing job. I'm betting the product and project managers had their hands full trying to get all of these different companies to do something reasonable to fit the scope of the project. If this was just me buying and trying different parts on my car it would have cost me a lot more time and money. And I may not have ended up with such a well integrated product.
Regarding the gobble. I DON'T want anyone taking that away unless it is robbing me of horsepower or harming the car. I smile whenever it happens. And my wife starts singing "gobble, gobble, gobble" whenever she hears it. And then we both start laughing. It is definitely one of the more amusing parts of the car, second only to the color and the huge wing. Geez, even thinking about it makes me smile.
What Mazda has been able to do is somehow corral a bunch of tuners to accept responsibility for designing/developing different parts of a complex product, make it so that the physical dis and re-assembly could be done by a different outside source, and then resolve all of the issues that come up during a complex project. I think Mazda has done a pretty amazing job. I'm betting the product and project managers had their hands full trying to get all of these different companies to do something reasonable to fit the scope of the project. If this was just me buying and trying different parts on my car it would have cost me a lot more time and money. And I may not have ended up with such a well integrated product.
Regarding the gobble. I DON'T want anyone taking that away unless it is robbing me of horsepower or harming the car. I smile whenever it happens. And my wife starts singing "gobble, gobble, gobble" whenever she hears it. And then we both start laughing. It is definitely one of the more amusing parts of the car, second only to the color and the huge wing. Geez, even thinking about it makes me smile.
Heh, the gobble hits a soft spot in my heart too, but the folks in the Forced Induction thread are saying something about it being compressor surge, and that it's damaging - what exactly it's hurting, I don't know... but if it means better performance all around and a longer life to the engine parts, then I'm all for shooting that turkey
*loads turkey gun*
*loads turkey gun*
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The Mazdaspeed Protege does have forged rods...It has been said by reliable sources with in MAZDA!
No one said however that they were up to the strength of say a Pauter rod, but they are forged.
No one said however that they were up to the strength of say a Pauter rod, but they are forged.
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BinaryRotary said:
How so??
