Broken PAR gear, again....

avarela86

Member
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Honda S2000
What issues did you have ? I'm thinking about getting an Exedy Stage 1 to soften up the drivetraina little. i think the Spec Stage 3+ that i have is a little too harsh, and overkill for my mods.

It should help, a full disk will always be better for the gears than a pucked clutch because sometimes a full disk has some slip at times.
 

Speed3.5

chasing electrons ..
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16' Mazda3, 2003.5
well since you don't push too much on it it will work but be aware that EXEDY stg1 is rated around 325tq

If your interested lmk, I still have mine in box.
 
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2003.5 Laser Blue MSP
What issues did you have ? I'm thinking about getting an Exedy Stage 1 to soften up the drivetraina little. i think the Spec Stage 3+ that i have is a little too harsh, and overkill for my mods.

I broke my diff the first time, it was the usual oem non welded diff taking a s***; which was not installed properly.. That after about 1000 miles my tranny started making noise..I got it checked out and my diff was missing a took, along with my input shaft. They also found out my 3-4 shift fork was really badly work as well.

To answer your question I think the exedy 1 is proablly the most installed clutch in both build and non built MSP's plus, people rarely complain about them and alway seem to have good reviews.
 
I run 15psi on the stock gt25 turbo. Check my mod list. Rarely do I ever go above 15 psi.

JDMSam, I know you run this on your cars but I'm confused. The torque rating in some places says "320tq", other places like your site say like 210 torque or around there. All I know is that this Spec stage 3+ is overkill for my setup. I'm just going to be very upset if I swap in a new clutch while my current one is in fine shape, and the Exedy slips. I truly trust what you say but, on some level i'm still skeptical.

I'm really concerned about breaking the tranny again when I put it back in. I'm swapping in the stock input & counter shaft, GTX gears, and stock gears. I actually need a new input shaft because mine is showing bad grinding on the center section. (previous owner sent me all the OEM tranny stuff, and the input shaft is beat).

I really don't want to sell the car but, if I have to worry about breaking gears with my est. 240-250whp...it's just not worth it. I mean s***, the bottom end is built and has 30,000 on it...it'd be a shame to have to get rid of this car. More PAR gears are out of the question...
 
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JDM Sam

Banned
That revised torque rating is underrated from my experience. The stock MSP clutch can hold 15 psi. The Exedy Stage 1 has a stiffer pressure plate and similar organic sport disc should hold it easily. If you want some more leeway get the stage 2.
 

JDM Sam

Banned
don't waste your time, they aren't much stronger than expected.

The new Par sets 3rd and 4th that fit on the factory input and counter shaft are stronger.
This set that broke was a used set in the Tripoint gear set. There has to be machining done precisely for that gear set otherwise it will grenade easily.
 
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The set that I used was actually new, although some used gears were included but discarded. I also have several brand new gears from PAR sitting in front of me and they have air bubbles in the casting, that were exposed when the sides were machined. I would look around for other possible options before calling PAR the "end-all" solution. In addition to that, I bought a ring and pinion set from PAR last July, and that also has horrible signs of pitting on the teeth. I'm not sepnding anymore money on PAR gears personally, and I would hope that I have a refund coming my way soon due to the Ring / Pinion issue.

I'm not saying Sam is wrong, but I am saying that you should beware. I understand that other people (few) are running PAR sets and haven't had failure yet, but from what I gathered those people drive the car very very little compared to me, which it is a DD in my case.


EDIT: SAM, do you sell conversion kits so that I can run needle roller bearings on the stocker input and counter shaft w/ the stock or GTX gears ? Thanks
 
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JDM Sam

Banned
That's pretty bad quality control if your gears had air bubbles.

Aside from par, only Emco makes stronger gears. You'll be paying a premium for those though. $1k per set (1 set per gear)

I can get them but should deal with PAR directly since you already dealt with them before so you can work something out with them.
I'm trying to get another manufacturer hopefully to make stronger gears that will drop onto the factory input and counter shaft for 3rd and 4th.
 
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Yea, I don't know how they had air bubbles in there, especially because they're not "casted" parts. They're machined from billet, weird I know. I'm talking with them right now and hopefully come to a resolution. They offered me another Ring / Pinion / Countershaft set BUT, I need cash, not more PAR gears that will be useless to me.

My posting is not to discredit PAR, but to simply "throw this out there" as my experience, and let people know that their MAY still be issues with their parts. Maybe this is a isolated incident, but it's still unacceptable to have such supposed high quality parts break so often.

Sam: do you sell conversion kits so that I can run needle roller bearings on the stocker input and counter shaft w/ the stock or GTX gears ? Thanks
 

nvmsp

Member
I'm trying to get another manufacturer hopefully to make stronger gears that will drop onto the factory input and counter shaft for 3rd and 4th.[/QUOTE]

Sub'ed for those.
 

avarela86

Member
:
Honda S2000
TBK makes stronger gears that drop in... I talked to Manuel he said you called him up about it. Why not go with those gears? I wish I could afford them but for now it's junking $90 trannies left and right before I bite the bullet.
 

mspHtown

Member
:
MSP 2003.5
TBK makes stronger gears that drop in... I talked to Manuel he said you called him up about it. Why not go with those gears? I wish I could afford them but for now it's junking $90 trannies left and right before I bite the bullet.

from the pictures pdhaudio posted, the TBK gears seem to lack quality.
 
To be honest, and this will sound very stubborn.....But I'm no longer interested in dumping money into this car, due to the fact that it's turned out to be a mediocre platform to start with. I'm just going to fix and then sell it.

I have to spend $1,000 minimum for 3rd and 4th gear (TBK), and all that would do is make it so when you're hammering down in one of those gears, you just moved the stress from the gears to the input and counter shaft, especially due to the larger and more aggressive tooth patterns on the TBK and PAR helical cut gears.

Outlawstar: I think TBK only makes helical cut gears. Helical is actually stronger than spur cut, but helical gears put a high amount of lateral stress on the tranny case and shafts. If you're looking at PAR straight cuts, be prepared to change your gear oil every time you change your oil, and also be prepared to spend a buttload on NEO Synthetic fluid every time you change. PAR is in Australia and shipping is a pain in the nuts, price and time wise. They're also being very rigid on their return policy right now, and offering me no $$ back at all, but instead another counter shaft and ring gear that I don't want / can't use.

PS: Anyone can go to a shop that has CAD / CAM / CNC machinery and have them make you a custom gear set. Your options are not limited to PAR, EMCO, TBK, etc..
 
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TBK makes stronger gears that drop in... I talked to Manuel he said you called him up about it. Why not go with those gears? I wish I could afford them but for now it's junking $90 trannies left and right before I bite the bullet.

They cost too much, cheaper than PAR, but I'm too cheap.