breather filter on egr

[magnumP5]

first off the EGR has absolutly ZERO to do with knock prevention. The EGR does not function at WOT or at idle and only at partial throttle during cruising speeds. Adding a little atmospheric air at light cruising speeds will not hurt the engine unless its unfiltered. Also an EGR does in fact meter air to a certain extent it knows when there is flow through it. On top of all this the ECU does compensate for what is ingested through the EGR. You forget there is a O2 sensor placed in the manifold that tells the ECU what the engine is ejecting and compensates accordingly. All exhaust is not created equal so the O2 still has to compensate whether its fresh air or exhaust air. All in all the only thing an EGR is good for is to cut down on NOx during light throttle/cruising speeds (ie what people drive at most of the time)...

The best way i have heard this put is you wouldnt stick a hose up your butt and plumb it to your nostril would you? why would you make your engine do the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation

Yes, the EGR is primarily an emissions-reducing device. It does, however, serve other purposes (such as reducing combustions temperatures, which, if too high, can lead to detonation). Yes, the ECU relies on the primary O2 sensor readings but it also works in conjunction with the MAF, which reads the amount of air entering the engine. If the ECU could work solely off the primary O2 sensor there wouldn't be any "System too lean" codes thrown due to vacuum leaks.

Also, the EGR does not "meter" in a controlling sense in that the flow is only metered based on the flow velocity and the diameter of the hose. The only "intelligent" thing about the EGR system is the EGR boost sensor which reads changes in vacuum to determine whether the EGR valve is open or not.

Still, the one fact everyone keeps forgetting is that there is NO proof that removing the EGR valve and/or plugging the line has any appreciable positive effects other than cleaning up the engine bay. There's simply no reason to remove it.

 

[mp3-79bronco]

well i think im gonna go with my last idea, weld a nipple to my midpipe directly under the spot where it goes to the intake that way i can run a short line straight up to the manifold

 

[Shadow102]

The EGR is never used to prevent detonation...it is and always has been since it was inveted used as an emissions control device which has been switched back and forth with the use of an air pump...mazda has done it before. And your right the engine doesnt rely solely on the O2 sensor but it does use it to compensate during regular driving aka the only time the EGR opens.

And your right there is no proof of it having a performance gain because there is none most dont build engines to operate at peak performance during cruising speeds, but in instances like not having an EGR bung on the manifold or not having a correct tube for the EGR its an acceptable option...that and it keeps carbon out of the engine as well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation

Yes, the EGR is primarily an emissions-reducing device. It does, however, serve other purposes (such as reducing combustions temperatures, which, if too high, can lead to detonation). Yes, the ECU relies on the primary O2 sensor readings but it also works in conjunction with the MAF, which reads the amount of air entering the engine. If the ECU could work solely off the primary O2 sensor there wouldn't be any "System too lean" codes thrown due to vacuum leaks.

Also, the EGR does not "meter" in a controlling sense in that the flow is only metered based on the flow velocity and the diameter of the hose. The only "intelligent" thing about the EGR system is the EGR boost sensor which reads changes in vacuum to determine whether the EGR valve is open or not.

Still, the one fact everyone keeps forgetting is that there is NO proof that removing the EGR valve and/or plugging the line has any appreciable positive effects other than cleaning up the engine bay. There's simply no reason to remove it.

 

[dominoy2k1]

on my first turbokit i just left tubing disconnected and i never got a CEL due to egr.

 

[Wagonbacker9]

the only rebuttal I have in support of putting a breather on the EGR, is that leaning out the MSP tune might actually lead to a better (read as more efficient) tune. Its not controlled, so I don't know if it would actually work, but bumping the AFRs a bit might actually be a good thing as far as the stock computer is concearned. I'd love to see wideband results with a factory setup EGR and one with a breather on it.

 

[Shadow102]

the only rebuttal I have in support of putting a breather on the EGR, is that leaning out the MSP tune might actually lead to a better (read as more efficient) tune. Its not controlled, so I don't know if it would actually work, but bumping the AFRs a bit might actually be a good thing as far as the stock computer is concearned. I'd love to see wideband results with a factory setup EGR and one with a breather on it.

wouldn't matter. The MSP runs pig rich at WOT the EGR doesnt function during that point.

 

[Wagonbacker9]

but what about part throttle conditions? I apologize, I don't know how the MSP ecu runs under different loads, I just know it runs rich.

 

[magnumP5]

on my first turbokit i just left tubing disconnected and i never got a CEL due to egr.

That's because the EGR could still open and cause a change in vacuum. You only get a CEL from plugging the EGR or removing it.

wouldn't matter. The MSP runs pig rich at WOT the EGR doesnt function during that point.

Exactly. If it does lean out the air/fuel mixture, it does it during all the wrong times.

 

[mp3-79bronco]

well i found a 1/2 corrugated gas line in my shop so all i need to know now is the size of the fitting that goes to the intake manifold

 

[magnumP5]

^^^ I'm pretty certain you need a 1/2" NPT male fitting for the intake manifold and a 1/2" NPT female fitting for the exhaust manifold.

 

[mp3-79bronco]

cool, this thread needs to be stickied... lots of usefull info here

ill do this sometime next week and let yall know how it works

 

[Shadow102]

but what about part throttle conditions? I apologize, I don't know how the MSP ecu runs under different loads, I just know it runs rich.

nothing that will be noticeable or really make a difference.

 

[Mutmatt]

i didn't read the 2ng page but the egr also serves a purpose of lowering cylinder temps because the exhaust gas is not combustible there for less of a bang... it is tuned that way and it does not affect the hp. It is used to protect the engine.

 

[Wagonbacker9]

i didn't read the 2ng page but the egr also serves a purpose of lowering cylinder temps because the exhaust gas is not combustible there for less of a bang... it is tuned that way and it does not affect the hp. It is used to protect the engine.

this has been covered, but never hurts to hear it again... if enough ppl agree, it might be believed.

 

[Mutmatt]

or just known...

 

[Wagonbacker9]

you know as well as any, there is always someone who knows better than everyone else...despite what logic, physics, or what have you tells them...

 

[Mutmatt]

opinions are like butt holes... every one has one and they stink.

 

[Shadow102]

i didn't read the 2ng page but the egr also serves a purpose of lowering cylinder temps because the exhaust gas is not combustible there for less of a bang... it is tuned that way and it does not affect the hp. It is used to protect the engine.

The egr has never been used as an engine protection device. It has always been an emmisions control and only works during cruising light throttle where lower combustion temps will lower your NOx

 

[RABID_MP5]

Along Magnum's train of thought, if you do decide to pull air thru the EGR - What if you obtain the filtered air from the intake tract, somewhere between the MAF sensor and throttle plate? Then at least the MAF would be accurately measuring the intake charge and its corresponding oxygen quantity. (The argument of whether you should do this remains.)

 

[Wagonbacker9]

Along Magnum's train of thought, if you do decide to pull air thru the EGR - What if you obtain the filtered air from the intake tract, somewhere between the MAF sensor and throttle plate? Then at least the MAF would be accurately measuring the intake charge and its corresponding oxygen quantity. (The argument of whether you should do this remains.)

you would effectively be plumbing the intake it to itself.... may as well cap it off and save the hassle.