boosted 1.6L

[99 Pro]

Sorry to bring up an old thread but just had a couple questions for you guys that turboed your 1.6L Protege. I am a total turbo noob, so please go easy on me.

How many different types of turbos are out there for the Protege?
Which is the best one?
What other upgrades must you make to your stock motor to get everything running properly?
Can you expect about +50-60 more HP?
Do you have to run higher octane gas? What type?

Once again, sorry if these are dumb questions. Just trying to learn more about possibly turboing my car. Thanks fellas!

 

[Shane5425]

How many different types of turbos are out there for the Protege?
3, Hiboost, ihi turbo or t25 both great
tsi turbo kit, bad fitment
Which is the best one?
Hiboost
What other upgrades must you make to your stock motor to get everything running properly?
High performance clutch
hiboost kit comes with everythign u need.
Can you expect about +50-60 more HP?
no, u can expect 100 to 120 more with hiboost, a 100 pecent increase, on moderate every day boost,
Do you have to run higher octane gas? What type?
yes , 93 octane as all turbo charged cars have to..


damn , i know all this s*** and i dont even have a turbo... tsk tsk tsk..

 

[biknman]

The entry level minimum for force inducting a Protege would be the following: You want to use a small turbo like a stock WRX or an Eclipse the T25 is perfect. Only run about 6-8 psi of boost which can be done with the waste gate spring, fuel management can be taken care easily by a boost referenced fuel pressure regulator. Mods to car will be of course the exhaust manifold for the turbo, an inter cooler of some sort stay small and keep the IC pipes small, and lastly the stock clutch will not hold the 40% increase in power from 6 psi of boost so a stage 1 or 2 clutch upgrade needs to be done. Also to free up the boost spool up a 2 + free flowing exhaust system is recommended. Checkout www.wagnermotorsports.net . NOTE for safety a simple water/alcohol injection setup will safe guard your motor see www.snowperformance.com. With the above setup I dyno 147whp in a 99 1.6 Protg MTL completely stock was 87whp and but over 30,000 trouble free boosted miles on the car with no problems.

Best adise I could give is to read the FI bible by CorkyBell titled Maximum Boost: Designing, Testing, and Installing Turbocharger Systems https://www.amazon.com/dp/ (commissions earned)

Good Luck

Examples of Andrew wrok at www.WagnerMotorsports.net

My 03 WRX Wagon

My 03 ITE 1.6L 99 Protege

 

[Shane5425]

ummm, danny asked wagner if he was still makin the 1.6l manifolds, he said no.. cause i was gonna get one ..

 

[biknman]

ummm, danny asked wagner if he was still makin the 1.6l manifolds, he said no.. cause i was gonna get one ..

He'll make one as long as you use the turbo he specs because of all the turbo inlets and outlets orientations. Plus the down pipe orientation and fitment. He can't make one if you want to use your on turbo with out having the car at his shop so he get the orientation of the turbo ins and outs correct. I hope this explains. If you but the whole set up from Andy no worries. Other wise you'll have to take the car to him so he can get the fitment right. Really the only right way to do it if you want it done right and the only way Andy does business so his products of the highest quality.

 

[Shane5425]

i get what ur sayin, way to much distance away form me.

 

[biknman]

If one where to buy the turbo, manifold, and down pipe from Andy theyd be good to go. There are tons of universal FMIC kits out there search e-bay and I think vibrant has one. A FMIC is not really that hard to fab up. Get some 2" 90s, 45s, and straight pipe then some silicon hose and clamp a conquest FMIC or one smaller and youre set. And on the intake side just use a cheap ram air intake, bam you have a turbo installed don't forget the FPR for 6psi use one that is around 4:1 meaning four pounds of extra fuel pressure for every pound of boost. Tune with a good AFR gauge 14.7:1 in vacuum and 12.1:1 under boost and an EGT gauge with temps no higher than 1200 F while at 6psi for 15 seconds or so and your done a basic turbo set up.

QUOTE=shaneMazda2000P]i get what ur sayin, way to much distance away form me.[/QUOTE]

 

[TampaSport20]

If one where to buy the turbo, manifold, and down pipe from Andy theyd be good to go. There are tons of universal FMIC kits out there search e-bay and I think vibrant has one. A FMIC is not really that hard to fab up. Get some 2" 90s, 45s, and straight pipe then some silicon hose and clamp a conquest FMIC or one smaller and youre set. And on the intake side just use a cheap ram air intake, bam you have a turbo installed don't forget the FPR for 6psi use one that is around 4:1 meaning four pounds of extra fuel pressure for every pound of boost. Tune with a good AFR gauge 14.7:1 in vacuum and 12.1:1 under boost and an EGT gauge with temps no higher than 1200 F while at 6psi for 15 seconds or so and your done a basic turbo set up.

QUOTE=shaneMazda2000P]i get what ur sayin, way to much distance away form me.

[/QUOTE]

I hear what you are saying Dave...however Andy's customer service has been SOOOOOOO horrible lately, most people on the board are counting him out as a vendor

However Juan has said he will sell a manifold and downpipe seperately that will work with a T25

 

[biknman]

Ya poor Andy makes such a quality product that he is swamped with demands for all his stuff. He is just a one man show which doesnt allow for fabing and welding all day and answering the phone all day answering questions like, "what is a blow off valve? And how much horse power will it give me? Joey Jerk off says its worth 10 to 15 horses at the wheels easy on my NA Civic, oh and I have to ask my mom for $50 does cost more than that.?" He has done some major restructuring of his business lately and is only focusing on turbo fabrication and exhaust systems his specialty. So hopefully things will get better.



I hear what you are saying Dave...however Andy's customer service has been SOOOOOOO horrible lately, most people on the board are counting him out as a vendor

However Juan has said he will sell a manifold and downpipe seperately that will work with a T25[/QUOTE]

 

[TampaSport20]

Ya poor Andy makes such a quality product that he is swamped with demands for all his stuff. He is just a one man show which doesnt allow for fabing and welding all day and answering the phone all day answering questions like, "what is a blow off valve? And how much horse power will it give me? Joey Jerk off says its worth 10 to 15 horses at the wheels easy on my NA Civic, oh and I have to ask my mom for $50 does cost more than that.?" He has done some major restructuring of his business lately and is only focusing on turbo fabrication and exhaust systems his specialty. So hopefully things will get better.

Not to thread jack, but you should read some of the threads about Wagner lately....he is developing quite the reputation for NOT having quality product....

Maybe you could help him out by talking to him, and get him to respond on here....Quite a few people are getting frustrated with him

 

[biknman]

I have been talking to Andrew and I've been sending him all these post. Andy usually works a 16 hour day 7days a week just trying to keep up with fab work so with what little free time he has he tries to spend it with his family, he is not going to waste it on forums. Man has not even raced a car in over two years what fun is that? Image to be in the business of making cars fast and don't even have time to enjoy them yourself. Two of his own vehicles have been rusting in the back of the shop for going on three years now that is a crying shame. With all the vehicles Andy has products for he could spend a 60 hours a week just keeping up with post on forums forget about all the phones calls, e-mails, customers coming by bugging him about a stupid body kit for a Civic for two hours only to learn that $400 they got for Christmas isn't going to cover it. Same reasons I really don't post on forums anymore, you wouldnt believe some of the dumb-ass questions I get daily and I very, very rarely post and I dont make anything but for myself. One reason Wagner Motorsports is closing and going to be restructured so he can focus on quality limited amount of product. Hell if you call a plumber or an electrician etc they usually charge a minimum of $100 just to come out for look (DC area). In my industry (telecoms) for some basic engineering support or design work better have a huge checkbook. Even basic phone tech support is double what the plumber gets. And Andrew will spends hours upon hours talking to folks educating them, designing a setup for them, just to have his time wasted. The worst is a young guy brings in his car all excited, "Yo man I need some boost please, please hook me up bro!" So Andy invests four or five hours talking to the customer to sale and design setup for his applications and goals, customer agrees brings car in, then is there everyday wants this and whats that so he never gets to concentrate on the work and takes him twice as long, gets it all done and dyno tuned putten down mad hosrse safely of course it's beautiful then BAM! Time for payment, oh you mean a one off setup with a custom Sparco FMIC all mirror polish pipes with a Turbonetics; BOV, external Wastage, T4 ceramic ball bearing turbo, a custom mandrel bent 3 inch Stainless exhaust and manifold with a standalone fuel management with 10 hours dyno time is more than $1000? But that's all I got left over from my college loan, Im going to have to call my daddy. s*** like that well kill any business and you have to admit there are a ton of dump-ass kids in the tuner market. Wagner Motorsports has grown way to fast for a one man show. Andys incredible run of bad luck with employees and or partnerships has cost him his business. Hell in the last year alone he has had dumb-ass employees and freaking business partnerships have cost him almost $100K in losses. Plus his shop was ripped off a few months ago setting him more than a year behind or some projects. But I give Andy credit an excellent racecar engineer and fabricator one of the best I think, but not so good at the business side of things but not because he cant just not enough hours in the day, mix the two and stuff gets dropped out. But I've seen it hundreds of times, great guys that do damn good work, get eaten up by the business. Lastly you think Protege folks spend money you should see that amount of money spent by lets say the STI or EVO market then move up to the S4 and M3 guys then move up to the Porshe and Ferri guys makes the Protege customer a waste of time compared to the Porshe or Ferri customer. We should be lucky to have guys like Andy even bothering with a strut bar for the cars we drive.

Not to thread jack, but you should read some of the threads about Wagner lately....he is developing quite the reputation for NOT having quality product....

Maybe you could help him out by talking to him, and get him to respond on here....Quite a few people are getting frustrated with him

 

[TampaSport20]

I have been talking to Andrew and I've been sending him all these post. Andy usually works a 16 hour day 7days a week just trying to keep up with fab work so with what little free time he has he tries to spend it with his family, he is not going to waste it on forums.

He has had plenty of time to come on here and pimp product (uhm)....I'm not trying to argue with you.As a matter of fact I tried defending him! But the MULTITUDE of posts I got responding about bad,leaky headers and downpipes,or receiving the wrong product all together was tremendous!!! People have posted replies complaining about service in threads HE started and he hasnt responded to one of them. We aren't talking about civic guys here that don't have money to pay him....I'm referring to customers who ALREADY paid him hard earned money for product, and didnt get what they paid for. Just please see if you can talk to him about responding to these complaints, or he will continue to lose business. There has already been talk of revoking his vendor status here.

 

[Shane5425]

I have been talking to Andrew and I've been sending him all these post. Andy usually works a 16 hour day 7days a week just trying to keep up with fab work so with what little free time he has he tries to spend it with his family, he is not going to waste it on forums. Man has not even raced a car in over two years what fun is that? Image to be in the business of making cars fast and don't even have time to enjoy them yourself. Two of his own vehicles have been rusting in the back of the shop for going on three years now that is a crying shame. With all the vehicles Andy has products for he could spend a 60 hours a week just keeping up with post on forums forget about all the phones calls, e-mails, customers coming by bugging him about a stupid body kit for a Civic for two hours only to learn that $400 they got for Christmas isn't going to cover it. Same reasons I really don't post on forums anymore, you wouldnt believe some of the dumb-ass questions I get daily and I very, very rarely post and I dont make anything but for myself. One reason Wagner Motorsports is closing and going to be restructured so he can focus on quality limited amount of product. Hell if you call a plumber or an electrician etc they usually charge a minimum of $100 just to come out for look (DC area). In my industry (telecoms) for some basic engineering support or design work better have a huge checkbook. Even basic phone tech support is double what the plumber gets. And Andrew will spends hours upon hours talking to folks educating them, designing a setup for them, just to have his time wasted. The worst is a young guy brings in his car all excited, "Yo man I need some boost please, please hook me up bro!" So Andy invests four or five hours talking to the customer to sale and design setup for his applications and goals, customer agrees brings car in, then is there everyday wants this and whats that so he never gets to concentrate on the work and takes him twice as long, gets it all done and dyno tuned putten down mad hosrse safely of course it's beautiful then BAM! Time for payment, oh you mean a one off setup with a custom Sparco FMIC all mirror polish pipes with a Turbonetics; BOV, external Wastage, T4 ceramic ball bearing turbo, a custom mandrel bent 3 inch Stainless exhaust and manifold with a standalone fuel management with 10 hours dyno time is more than $1000? But that's all I got left over from my college loan, Im going to have to call my daddy. s*** like that well kill any business and you have to admit there are a ton of dump-ass kids in the tuner market. Wagner Motorsports has grown way to fast for a one man show. Andys incredible run of bad luck with employees and or partnerships has cost him his business. Hell in the last year alone he has had dumb-ass employees and freaking business partnerships have cost him almost $100K in losses. Plus his shop was ripped off a few months ago setting him more than a year behind or some projects. But I give Andy credit an excellent racecar engineer and fabricator one of the best I think, but not so good at the business side of things but not because he cant just not enough hours in the day, mix the two and stuff gets dropped out. But I've seen it hundreds of times, great guys that do damn good work, get eaten up by the business. Lastly you think Protege folks spend money you should see that amount of money spent by lets say the STI or EVO market then move up to the S4 and M3 guys then move up to the Porshe and Ferri guys makes the Protege customer a waste of time compared to the Porshe or Ferri customer. We should be lucky to have guys like Andy even bothering with a strut bar for the cars we drive.

well, said.. i talked to danny, (silver pro with wagner setup) and he said the cars at andys shop make proteges look like matchbox cars.. so i guess we are lucky we have some support from guys like that, sorry to hear about him gettin riped off..

 

[newguy32]

nice

here is an example of the fine work...

end of an intercooler pipe...

love it dont ya

 

[THEGOLDPRO]

here is an example of the fine work...

end of an intercooler pipe...

love it dont ya

looks ok to me.

 

[biknman]

Ya sorry, but a lot of the f'd up work folks have received or did not receive was not necessarily at the hands of Andy. But rather one of the many temp welders want to be fabricators he has hired and fired just because of work like the ones posted. Or the front office guy and gals (he has been though many in two years) not getting s*** right in shipping or taking orders. Thats the reason he is closing Wagner Motorsports and if we are all lucky hell restructure his business and be back and make quality products for us like he did several years ago.

He has had plenty of time to come on here and pimp product (uhm)....I'm not trying to argue with you.As a matter of fact I tried defending him! But the MULTITUDE of posts I got responding about bad,leaky headers and downpipes,or receiving the wrong product all together was tremendous!!! People have posted replies complaining about service in threads HE started and he hasnt responded to one of them. We aren't talking about civic guys here that don't have money to pay him....I'm referring to customers who ALREADY paid him hard earned money for product, and didnt get what they paid for. Just please see if you can talk to him about responding to these complaints, or he will continue to lose business. There has already been talk of revoking his vendor status here.

 

[newguy32]

Ya sorry, but a lot of the f'd up work folks have received or did not receive was not necessarily at the hands of Andy. But rather one of the many temp welders want to be fabricators he has hired and fired just because of work like the ones posted. Or the front office guy and gals (he has been though many in two years) not getting s*** right in shipping or taking orders. Thats the reason he is closing Wagner Motorsports and if we are all lucky hell restructure his business and be back and make quality products for us like he did several years ago.

meh,

i watched those pipes get made, but until i took them off i didnt notice the ends....

i think when u see people come and go, its generally the fault of the employer. People want to associate themselves with perfection, and need a leader.... when someone isnt a good leader or doesnt set a good example, their employees will follow suit.

food for thought

 

[newguy33]

Ya sorry, but a lot of the f'd up work folks have received or did not receive was not necessarily at the hands of Andy. But rather one of the many temp welders want to be fabricators he has hired and fired just because of work like the ones posted. Or the front office guy and gals (he has been though many in two years) not getting s*** right in shipping or taking orders. Thats the reason he is closing Wagner Motorsports and if we are all lucky hell restructure his business and be back and make quality products for us like he did several years ago.

Get real. All of the stuff that has left Wagner's has passed through Andrew's hands personally. You know only what you are told personally by Andrew and nothing of fact or should I say reality. I mean come on how can one person have so much bad luck? How long has it been since your Wagner Turbo'd Protege has even ran? Whose fault is that?

It is never Andrew's fault, it is always someone else's. Be it an employee, a vendor or the customer themselves. Wagner never takes responsibility for any of his actions and always blames someone else. Just look at his response to the thread a couple of weeks ago:

All of the headers have shipped. There were 2 headers that were cracked and I fixed them. I have not been contacted about any other problems(with wookmanship). I had a guy in the office that was taking care of the GB buy and things did not go well. I am not putting the blame on him because we have bad employee problems we got behind. Jet hot also sent headers to the wrong people. I am not sure if my guy sent jet hot the wrong addresses or if it was jet hot did it. He did end up screwing things up. He does not work here anymore. And I am doing all of the GBs now.

Right there he states he is not putting the blame on the "office guy" but 3 sentences later the "office guy" screwed the GB up. He also blames the GB problems on bad employee problems. Yet again, he himself has not taken any responsibility for anything here. It is always someone else's fault!!! I know the "office guy" that worked at the counter/office(if you can call it that) and the reason he left Wagner's shop was because Wagner constantly screwed him over and never made good on any of his promises. The "office guy" didn't even get paid to work there. He was just helping out a friend who in turn screwed him over BIG TIME! This "office guy" lent Wagner over 6 grand and is still waiting to get his money back...Plus he had $2500.00 worth of parts get stolen and Wagner hasn't made any effort to reimburse him, because Wagner didn't even have theft insurance on his shop! I think the "office guy" is going to make a post on here soon exposing what really went on at Wagner's so be on the look out for that thread.

This has got to stop. There are so many people that have been ripped off or are currently being ripped off(You know who you are) on this forum, that it is incredible he is allowed to pedal parts here. Stop, Open up your Eyes and realize what is going on. He is a con artist, a thief and a liar. Enough is Enough.

And just an FYI...He isn't closing to restructure his shop. He's closing because his Dyno and Mandrel Bender are getting repossessed and he owes his vendors, ex-friends, and even past/present customers in excess of over $65,000.00 with no hope of ever paying them off.

 

[blustreak]

Lastly you think Protege folks spend money you should see that amount of money spent by lets say the STI or EVO market then move up to the S4 and M3 guys then move up to the Porsche and Ferri guys makes the Protege customer a waste of time compared to the Porsche or Ferri customer. We should be lucky to have guys like Andy even bothering with a strut bar for the cars we drive.

I currently own a Subaru and a Protege5. I have owned 2 Eclipse GSX's in the past and parents have owned 5 Porsche's in their lifetime. You are correct owners of the cars you mentioned do spend a lot of money on their cars. I once spent $1000.00 on a custom tubular exhaust mani for one of my Eclipse's. My parents have spent in excess of $2,000.00 on an exhaust system for their 993.



Regardless of what I have spent on my cars or my parents send on theirs, quality product is quality product. When someone buys an OBX header, they know what they are getting, which as stated on these boards, is a lot of bang for the buck. When I pay $250.00 for a header, it better look better than the 179.00 OBX headers. Unfortunately this header form Wagner Motorsports does not. I was not expecting a beautifully polished SS header like a DC header for the Hondas, I was expecting the runners to match up, the collector to be flat, and the exhaust flange to not be warped. If my mani for my Eclipse came to me this way, I would almost guarantee all DSM owners in my area would no longer consider Wagner Motorsport for parts. I feel the same holds true for any tight knit car community. When a vendor starts burning customers, the vendors just disappear.



I understand about people coming in and asking questions, and wanting the fastest in the world for $1000.00. In my business, I get this all of the time with brides wanting to do a dream wedding but only have $3000.00 to spend. If Mr. Wagner spends all of his time building theses amazing turbo systems before he gets paid then it is no wonder that he owes everybody money. I do not even set the room for an event until I have a sizeable deposit. Bad business sense is no excuse. He needs to start showing some GOOD business sense and start resolving these issues before word gets out beyond the Mazda community and all he is left with is the lucrative Hyundai and Daewoo market.



If he has fallen on hard times I feel for him, but business is business and he needs to own up and compensate accordingly.



Thank you for your time.

 

[luwe]

Just to get the topic back on track do you think a T3 would be too big for the zm-de? At what rpm do you think boost would kick in?