Blown MS6 engine

[briangmr]

Hey everyone. First post here. Wish it was under better circumstances.

I have a stock 2007 MS6 with 28,000 miles (primarily highway commuting to and from school). Only upgrade is the Mazda CAI that I had installed at the dealership. Since I bought it I have experienced an intermittent pinging (detonation?) from the engine whenever I lug (~2,500-3,000 rpm) the engine on the freeway (catching up to or passing traffic after we've slowed down to like 50 mph or so). I always put 91 in it since that's the highest octane we have in Cali.

This past week it did it to me again, but it was much louder than before. I lifted as usual and when I started to roll back into it the engine let go. I've always changed my oil every 3-5k miles and always used Mobil 1. However, without having every receipt and since I'm due for another oil change soon, Mazda is understandably refusing to honor the warranty.

The dealership wants $13k for a new engine. No remans are available yet, so I feel like I'm stuck. Do any of you guys have any ideas for how I can get my car running again? Have any of you heard of any other blown engines in the Speed 6? Know where I can find one from a junk yard or buy a block? Are there any non-Mazda/Ford engines (performance?) engines that might package? Anyone want to buy a non-roller (grin)?

Thanks.

-Brian

 

[tunersteve]

Hey, sorry to hear about your engine, but my suggestion to you is to request to talk with a regional service rep. Have them come out there and look at the car, and get them involved. Sometimes the threat of a superior person can make things turn around, just keep your cool.

I know someone was selling an engine on here, just do a search in the 6/MS6 section and see what comes up. If not, talk to ken at PG, they sell engine parts there and will probably be able to get you cheaper than the dealer if you feel like putting it in yourself.

Best of luck with your situation.

Hey everyone. First post here. Wish it was under better circumstances.

I have a stock 2007 MS6 with 28,000 miles (primarily highway commuting to and from school). Only upgrade is the Mazda CAI that I had installed at the dealership. Since I bought it I have experienced an intermittent pinging (detonation?) from the engine whenever I lug (~2,500-3,000 rpm) the engine on the freeway (catching up to or passing traffic after we've slowed down to like 50 mph or so). I always put 91 in it since that's the highest octane we have in Cali.

This past week it did it to me again, but it was much louder than before. I lifted as usual and when I started to roll back into it the engine let go. I've always changed my oil every 3-5k miles and always used Mobil 1. However, without having every receipt and since I'm due for another oil change soon, Mazda is understandably refusing to honor the warranty.

The dealership wants $13k for a new engine. No remans are available yet, so I feel like I'm stuck. Do any of you guys have any ideas for how I can get my car running again? Have any of you heard of any other blown engines in the Speed 6? Know where I can find one from a junk yard or buy a block? Are there any non-Mazda/Ford engines (performance?) engines that might package? Anyone want to buy a non-roller (grin)?

Thanks.

-Brian

 

[jred321]

i would def have this investigated further by mazda. if you didn't change your oil i would think there would be signs of that elsewhere in the engine. if that's the excuse they're giving you and the rest of what you're saying is true then it should be covered under warranty, regardless of whether you have receipts for oil changes.

 

[MS64MEE]

Did they give you any specifics about what actually failed when the engine blew? It seems like many blown MS6 engines have been failed rods. Also, which cylinder (IIRC many have been on #4).

Edit: Here's some info about other blown MS6 engines: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mazdaspeed+6+90783+help&btnG=Search

 

[briangmr]

Thanks guys for responding.

The dealership that I went to supposedly has a good relationship with the regional service rep and they supposedly talked at length about my predicament. I will, however, try to contact him personally to see if I can get any further.

The dealership told me that I would be responsible for any tear down charges on the engine to determine what happened if Mazda didn't honor the warranty. I asked which cylinder let go and the service manager said he didn't know, but would get back to me (still waiting). I asked if they pulled the plugs to look for signs of detonation or other fouling and the service manager again said he would get back to me (still waiting). It sounded like all they did was get on the ground with a flashlight to see exactly what I had already told them. Regardless, I will probably fork out the dough because I'm very suspicious that there will be excessive wear on the bearing in the cylinder that let go caused by the detonation or some other characteristic of that engine. I don't think they'll be able to diagnose a rod failure since it's somewhere on the 2 freeway in LA. Thanks for the Google search.

FWIW, I had just filled up my car with 91 before the engine blew. I can't imagine how the engine would let go so quickly had they mixed up the octanes or had water in their tanks. Thoughts?

Has anyone on here actually swapped an engine on the MS6? According to the dealership it's a royal pain because the front suspension, tranny, and engine are all one unit and are supported on a crossmember. Doesn't sound much worse than most engines excepting the suspension bits. Are they just trying to bump up the service hours?

Thanks everyone.

 

[tunersteve]

Well I think you're on the right path, but you shouldn't have to pay. They have to prove that you were negligent, and right now I don't think they have. I don't think you answered this, but did you change your own oil or did you have the dealer do it for you. If they did, they should have records of your transactions.

 

[Igve2shtz]

Well, First of all, I am sorry to hear about your situation.

Protegegarage.com has forged motors for sale. The 13K for a new motor from Mazda seems about right for what everyone else has said.

About the pinging/detonation: If it were up to me, that is Mazda's fault because these car ECU's are supposed to be able to detect detonation, and try to correct it by retarding timing and adding lots of fuel to cool down the combustion process. There were problems with the 2006 MS6's because the knock sensor was too sensitive, and causing what we call "limp mode" too soon. This was supposed to have been fixed in 2007, along with a better fuel map for 91 octane, so you are definetly in the clear there.

My only recommendation to you is that you should tell the dealer to get the oil analyzed somewhere. If they charge you, pay the 20-50 bucks or something, and have it done. Since your car is otherwise stock (except for the MS CAI, which is a mazda part, so they shouldnt give you beef about that), once your oil comes back as in good condition, they should have no evidence against you.

Good luck, and dont back down. From the sounds of it, you are safe, and they are trying to take advantage of you.

 

[Skid]

Where do you live and which dealer did you go to? I'm going to get an oil change at my dealer next Saturday so I will tell them about your situation. They've helped me with all my problems so far. Replaced transmission, axle, diff mounts, transfer case, clutch (per tsb), and other various things all under warranty.

 

[JSpeed 6 JLA]

I blew my motor 6 months back or so.....among other things. I had the rear end replaced at 25k, new motor at 29K, new turbo and trans at 39k. all under warantee and had all the following parts installed for the turbo and trans swap.

my mods: CPE FMIC, CPE CAI, CPE CBE, ATP catless downpipe< ext...
what im gettting at is go to another dealer! that is BS that they are denying the warantee. go to the shops you changed your oil, pull the records, and give it to them. If your anywhere in florida, PM me and I'll tell you the dealer and service adbvisor that will 100% for sure warantee you car.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

if you need anything at all let me know. $13,000 is simply ridiculous.

 

[briangmr]

Thanks again to everyone for replying to my request.

I'm in Southern California and have been going to Tustin Mazda. Bob is the service manager and he's taken this on personally. He's been very helpful to date, short of getting the engine replaced under warranty.

I've tried remembering all of the places that I've been to (never the dealer unfortunately), but I'm still a few receipts short. I have a very hectic schedule and usually get the oil changed wherever and whenever I have a few spare moments (but always before I hit the 7,500 mile mark that Mazda recommends, usually 3-5k with Mobil 1). Combine that with lack of sleep and I unfortunately can't remember every place that I've been. I wonder what they do with people that change their own oil? Void the warranty?

JSpeed: Wow. It sounds like you've had way more problems that I've had. Are these common failures for the MS6 or are you pretty hard on the car? There is another MS6 at the dealer right now for a clutch replacement. Apparently it belonged to an older lady who didn't really hot rod that much. I saw the clutch and the friction pads were totally disintegrated.

I'm going to go ahead and pay to have them tear the engine down to where we can take a look at the bearings. I'm also going to have them have the oil analyzed. Hopefully if everything looks right I'll be able to get my money back on those.

Captain KRM P5: I took a look at the Protegegarage.com after Igve2shtz's post and may be interested in doing something with you. Give me a week or so to see how this pans out. I definitely appreciate the offer to help.

Thanks!

 

[Victory]

Need answers

I hope the dealership is transparent with what happened. This makes me so uneasy. Some guys beat the car down. Some, like me, just drive spiritedly. Id be sick if the engine blew on a nearly stock car and they told me they wont cover it. In this case legal action would be very appropriate.

Odd because there are many cars out there being driven hard or modified that runs fine. The MS6 groups needs to know what is causing this so preventative action can be taken.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

its beginning to happen on ms3s as well, which is what i predicted a few months ago. the big question was "why are ms6 engines going and not ms3's". the ms6 has been out that extra year or two and people have been doing more to them, driving more stock or modified than what most ms3 guys have since done. now that the ms3 engines are getting more mods and more miles you will hear of them having the problems that ms6 guys are having. you haven't heard too many cx7 guys chime in with problems but i think that has a great deal to do with them being de-tuned and not being driven nearly as hard.

 

[bmman93]

woohoo welcome to the zoom zoom boom club! i truely know how you feel! it sucks! when mine in my ms3 dropped its motor i was scared crap less!

i really hope this works out for u man! keep fighting it

mine was cylinder number 4 and bad bearing made it go boom!

 

[briangmr]

woohoo welcome to the zoom zoom boom club! i truely know how you feel! it sucks! when mine in my ms3 dropped its motor i was scared crap less!

i really hope this works out for u man! keep fighting it

mine was cylinder number 4 and bad bearing made it go boom!

Did Mazda honor the warranty? Did Mazda cover the teardown on the engine to determine the problem? If not, what did you do?

I can understand them being nervous about forking over a new engine for someone who abuses it (racing or improper maintenance), but I just can't understand how missing a few receipts and having oil that's ready for a change would make them not want to help out. The rest of the car is in good shape (no broken diffs, or exploded clutches), so it's clear I'm not hotrodding the thing. Now I'm nervous about the other parts on my car that other people have had problems with.

Update: I asked the service manager at Tustin Mazda if I could speak to the Mazda regional service rep. He told me he would have to speak to the rep first and then get back to me. I just inquired this morning so I'm going to give him a day or two before I call him back. Am I missing something here?

 

[bmman93]

they questioned the hell out of me about it and then they just took care of it! took 3 weeks to get it back! i cant complane about the service( im not braging in anyway!) i know it sucks

keep on pressing them!! they will do something and once they tear it down they will find out and should pay you back or drop the tear down charges!

 

[Team Slow]

Registered to post in this thread.

Sorry about what happened. Mine blew at 11,900 back in October and my life has been difficult ever since. I took it to Tyrone Square Mazda (stay away) and they voided my warranty for by test pipe and BOV. It's April and after almost $700 in attorney's fees I am biting the bullet.

Good luck. I sympathize.

 

[chuyler1]

Sorry about what happened. Be persistant with the dealer, regional rep, and Mazda. Have the oil analyzed by 3rd party if they try to pin it on the fact you weren't going to them for changes. Personally, I wouldn't give them a dime until its resolved.

It will take some time, but this isn't your fault and they should be doing their best to take care of you. After all, the whole Mazda community is now watching to see how this turns out. (Mention that to the regional rep)

 

[briangmr]

The Mazda regional service manager called me last night and we spoke for about 20 minutes. Long story short is that without every oil change receipt they won't accept responsibility for the warranty claim. I offered to pay to have the oil analyzed and the engine disassembled, but he said it wouldn't make any difference. Without the two receipts that I'm still trying to locate nothing else matters. As an aside, he all but implied that I was taking additional time here to create forged receipts for oil changes. That really pissed me off.

He claims that 99.9% of all bottom end failures are due to lack of lubrication. I questioned him on that, but he wouldn't listen to any of my arguments. Wrt detonation, he told me that I would see a misfire well before the engine ever let go. He said I probably wouldn't notice it at first, but it might throw a code. When I asked him if they had pulled any codes from the comp, he said they hadn't even looked at that. Again it seems like technicalities triumph science and reason. Interestingly his return argument for a clean bill of health on the oil was that I could have run it low. I told him that even with receipts it would be hard to tell how much oil was in the engine at the time that it failed because of the nice little hole in the side of my block. He hesitantly agreed, but stated that if I had my receipts it wouldn't make any difference. Not sure why he even brought that up...

Anyway, I don't want to leave you guys with a bad impression of the dealership. Tustin Mazda (unlike Phillips Mazda in Laguna Hills) has been helpful and friendly throughout. They gave me a loaner car while this was being hashed out with Mazda and have called me daily to give me updates. While they haven't gone out of their way to further diagnose the root cause of the engine, they are limited by the policies of Mazda.

I'm really concerned that if I fork out $13k for a new engine and something else lets loose that I will be in the same predicament with Mazda. I really enjoyed the car, but if the manufacturer doesn't stand behind it, then I'm afraid it's not a product I want to own. I have to ferry two young boys 50 miles to and from school each way. The last thing I want to have to contend with is repeated failures that strand us on the freeway and that keep diverting our income from the family and to the car. I think I'm just going to get the car running again and get rid of it as soon as possible. Just can't take the risk with Mazda.

Thanks again to everyone for your help.

 

[camrycev6]

This story is beyond stunning... I just can't imagine any dealer would try to pull this BS. I guess if you had any company do your oil changes (Like Jiffy Scrooge) they could produce proof. I go through Mazda only because I don't have the ramps / patience to do an oil change I can get for $25 (with coupon). If I were you, I would never deal with this dealership again, and I would be calling other dealers in your area. I just can't believe they are going to stick with a "prove you changed your oil" excuse. Where is that in the warranty fine print? If it is there... wow...