Great thread.
My research and analysis has lead me to choose between the Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow and Blizzak LM-25.
I am truly torn between getting a set of rims (Sport Edition SE-14) and dedicated tires (DM-Z3, Winterforce, etc.) for the winter only, as many of you have done, or simply trying to find the best compromise between performance and safety at 20". I am leaning toward the latter, and that would logically lead me to choose the Pirelli's.
One issue I have though is that they only come in 255 mm width and not the standard 245. Someone posted in another thread that a dealer said that width should be fine for the Dueler H/L Alenzas, but would that hold true for the Scorpions as well? The difference between 255 and 245 in approximately 0.39371 inches.
So my question is, assuming that would work, should this deviation from standard be enough to sway me to select the Blizzaks, which come in the standard 245 width? And if so, how much "performance" would I be losing by doing so; not to mention wear & tear? That being said, after the nightmare of a trip we had to NH and back New Year's Eve on half-balded stock Duelers with 50K miles on them, I think I may be inclined to go the safer route.
Decisions, decisions...
My research and analysis has lead me to choose between the Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow and Blizzak LM-25.
I am truly torn between getting a set of rims (Sport Edition SE-14) and dedicated tires (DM-Z3, Winterforce, etc.) for the winter only, as many of you have done, or simply trying to find the best compromise between performance and safety at 20". I am leaning toward the latter, and that would logically lead me to choose the Pirelli's.
One issue I have though is that they only come in 255 mm width and not the standard 245. Someone posted in another thread that a dealer said that width should be fine for the Dueler H/L Alenzas, but would that hold true for the Scorpions as well? The difference between 255 and 245 in approximately 0.39371 inches.
So my question is, assuming that would work, should this deviation from standard be enough to sway me to select the Blizzaks, which come in the standard 245 width? And if so, how much "performance" would I be losing by doing so; not to mention wear & tear? That being said, after the nightmare of a trip we had to NH and back New Year's Eve on half-balded stock Duelers with 50K miles on them, I think I may be inclined to go the safer route.
Decisions, decisions...
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ANy winter tires you buy get very soft in the summer and will wear down very quickly, so if you plan on making them last for a few seasons you have to take them off in the summer. If you don't have dedicated wheels, you are looking at a few hours waiting at a tire shop, and a few hundred dollars twice a year as well. If you have the space to store 4 tires, get them on dedicated rims. The smaller 17 or 18 inch size reduces the cost of the package so it is not that much more money that buying 4 20 inch winter tires.
As for choosing between the 2, I don't think the extra centimeter makes much of a difference. There is a button on your NAV to reset tire rotation if you change diameters. You might want to hit that. The Pirellis are going to give you a bit longer life as the blizzacks have that dual compound tread that wears out after a few seasons changing the way the tire performs more quickly than the single compound Pirellis. You are in the North East USA like me- most of the winter you will not be driving on snow. The Pirellis in my biased opinion are the best tire for you because they are awesome in the snow and they are not that bad when going 80 on the highway.
As for choosing between the 2, I don't think the extra centimeter makes much of a difference. There is a button on your NAV to reset tire rotation if you change diameters. You might want to hit that. The Pirellis are going to give you a bit longer life as the blizzacks have that dual compound tread that wears out after a few seasons changing the way the tire performs more quickly than the single compound Pirellis. You are in the North East USA like me- most of the winter you will not be driving on snow. The Pirellis in my biased opinion are the best tire for you because they are awesome in the snow and they are not that bad when going 80 on the highway.
Thanks Bill.
I had another discussion with one of the local tire tech's and have come to the same conclusion. To do what I am thinking of I would need to have two sets of tires and rotate between seasons. Since we live only a couple miles from the coast in southern Plymouth, I don't think that will be necessary. If we were up in the back woods of Vermont then I would definitely go with the Scorpions though. It's just common sense based on geography.
Another factor for me is that I have to replace my original Dueler high performance tires, so I would actually have to buy TWO sets of tires AND wheels for the snows. Yikes!
The guy I am dealing with recommended sticking with the standard size over adjusting the NAVI, and I tend to agree. I am going to go with the Toyo PROXES S/T II 245/50 R20 102V as originally planned. This guy swears these are manufactured for New England weather. So there will be a trade off in some slippage, I am sure, but it's necessary to try and meet both needs with one tire. I am trusting him that this tire will suit my needs as he seems quite knowledgeable and has talked me out of far more expensive options.
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sbmrinaldi
Member
- :
- 07 CX9 Grand Touring FWD
Here is the Pirelli Snow and Ice on the Momo V10's. I bought the machined black Momo's. They do have the all silver wheel as well. Actually I have a new set of the all silver, they sent them to me by mistake mounted to my tires. Discount Tire in turn then had to send out the black machine face rims to swap out with the silver. It was a pain to haul all this locally and do what should have been done by Discount Tire, but we are working it out.
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sbmrinaldi
Member
- :
- 07 CX9 Grand Touring FWD
If you are talking about mine, the Pirelli Ice and Snow so far seem to be night and day difference. And we have had some serious snow this past week. No problems getting around at all. Hated to spend the money but well worth it.
Just went through the car wash here in Mass.
Here are photos of my Blizzak DMZ-3s on the Sport Edition ST3s from Tire Rack. These are 18".
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not_too_shabby
Member
- :
- 2008 CX-9
Time to resurrect this thread. Looks like for the 18" wheels tirerack offers the Blizzaks or Pirellis. The Blizzaks now have a DM-V1 model and the Pirellis are the scorpions which I have on our mercedes and seem to be good. To get the pirellis you have to drop down to 235 width, but narrower is better for snows anyways I believe.
I just checked the Bridgestone site, and their matching system reports the LM-60 Blizzak model. Perhaps that's matching the exact tire size. I went down to 18"
I'm confused why all you guys are going with 18's...I checked tirerack and they recommended going down to 17's...probably b/c I have a Touring. Probably just stick with the 18's then and check a local tire store to see what they offer...I know if you get winter tires from a local shop they offer free mount and balance swaps when every season changes, which is a huge savings, b/c I don't have to get rims, or TPMS sensors.
I am sure 17s are fine but at that point you are going to a taller sidewall in order to maintain the overall tire height of the stock tires. I think most feel as I do in that they want to maintain as much handling as possible for the times there is no snow on the ground. If I had snow all winter I would have had no problem buying 17s.
not_too_shabby
Member
- :
- 2008 CX-9
I bought a set of take off OEM 18" CX-9 wheels with TMPS and brand new tires on ebay for $400...that is why I am going with 18s. I have since put 8000 miles on the oem duellers that were on there(anybody want to buy them?). I will pull them off shortly and put on the dedicated snows, and then put my 20s back on in the spring.
Hi all,
Okay, it is that time of year and we are finally purchasing our dedicated winter snow tires. I have a 09 GT-AWD with 20" rims. With all of our previous vehicles (Jeep Grand Cherokee, Subuaru, Toyota Truck, we have always had studded tires. We live in Truckee, CA, a mountain/snow community, and I drive a steady 10% grade approx. 3/4 mile long, and other slopes on mountain roads daily. We also get the lowest temperature gradient in the nation, highs to lows, so we go from ice, snow, slush, etc. in a day.
I have finally convinced my husband to go from studded to non-studded tires for the Sexy-9 (he is getting studded tires again for our Cherokee, our last set lasted 5 seasons, and now we removed the studs and use the tires for summer), and our local tire shop convinced him to get 17" rims instead of 18", which is originally what I wanted. Anyhow, the best option for this size rim seems to be the BLIZZAK DM-V1 $130/tire), which are new this year, replacing the DM-Z3. We are going through our local store vs. tirerack.com as they will switch out our tires 2x/year on both cars free of charge.
He also thinks we will skip the TPMS due to cost, as we are told when they swap the tire out, they also charge to reset or disconnect or ?? This part I don't understand. We will keep the tires on hopefully for only 4 months of the year...(Novemberish to Marchish) depending on snow levels, and we can cover up the TPMS light if it bothers us.
My question is, does anyone have any opinions about this set up with 17" rims. I am afraid it may look a little small for the car, but I don't know, as I haven't seen any pics. I suspect handling should be about the same for 17 vs. 18, but then again, I am not knowlegeable in this area. All opinions are welcome!! Thanks
Okay, it is that time of year and we are finally purchasing our dedicated winter snow tires. I have a 09 GT-AWD with 20" rims. With all of our previous vehicles (Jeep Grand Cherokee, Subuaru, Toyota Truck, we have always had studded tires. We live in Truckee, CA, a mountain/snow community, and I drive a steady 10% grade approx. 3/4 mile long, and other slopes on mountain roads daily. We also get the lowest temperature gradient in the nation, highs to lows, so we go from ice, snow, slush, etc. in a day.
I have finally convinced my husband to go from studded to non-studded tires for the Sexy-9 (he is getting studded tires again for our Cherokee, our last set lasted 5 seasons, and now we removed the studs and use the tires for summer), and our local tire shop convinced him to get 17" rims instead of 18", which is originally what I wanted. Anyhow, the best option for this size rim seems to be the BLIZZAK DM-V1 $130/tire), which are new this year, replacing the DM-Z3. We are going through our local store vs. tirerack.com as they will switch out our tires 2x/year on both cars free of charge.
He also thinks we will skip the TPMS due to cost, as we are told when they swap the tire out, they also charge to reset or disconnect or ?? This part I don't understand. We will keep the tires on hopefully for only 4 months of the year...(Novemberish to Marchish) depending on snow levels, and we can cover up the TPMS light if it bothers us.
My question is, does anyone have any opinions about this set up with 17" rims. I am afraid it may look a little small for the car, but I don't know, as I haven't seen any pics. I suspect handling should be about the same for 17 vs. 18, but then again, I am not knowlegeable in this area. All opinions are welcome!! Thanks
Hi all,
Okay, it is that time of year and we are finally purchasing our dedicated winter snow tires. I have a 09 GT-AWD with 20" rims. With all of our previous vehicles (Jeep Grand Cherokee, Subuaru, Toyota Truck, we have always had studded tires. We live in Truckee, CA, a mountain/snow community, and I drive a steady 10% grade approx. 3/4 mile long, and other slopes on mountain roads daily. We also get the lowest temperature gradient in the nation, highs to lows, so we go from ice, snow, slush, etc. in a day.
I have finally convinced my husband to go from studded to non-studded tires for the Sexy-9 (he is getting studded tires again for our Cherokee, our last set lasted 5 seasons, and now we removed the studs and use the tires for summer), and our local tire shop convinced him to get 17" rims instead of 18", which is originally what I wanted. Anyhow, the best option for this size rim seems to be the BLIZZAK DM-V1 $130/tire), which are new this year, replacing the DM-Z3. We are going through our local store vs. tirerack.com as they will switch out our tires 2x/year on both cars free of charge.
He also thinks we will skip the TPMS due to cost, as we are told when they swap the tire out, they also charge to reset or disconnect or ?? This part I don't understand. We will keep the tires on hopefully for only 4 months of the year...(Novemberish to Marchish) depending on snow levels, and we can cover up the TPMS light if it bothers us.
My question is, does anyone have any opinions about this set up with 17" rims. I am afraid it may look a little small for the car, but I don't know, as I haven't seen any pics. I suspect handling should be about the same for 17 vs. 18, but then again, I am not knowlegeable in this area. All opinions are welcome!! Thanks
Okay, it is that time of year and we are finally purchasing our dedicated winter snow tires. I have a 09 GT-AWD with 20" rims. With all of our previous vehicles (Jeep Grand Cherokee, Subuaru, Toyota Truck, we have always had studded tires. We live in Truckee, CA, a mountain/snow community, and I drive a steady 10% grade approx. 3/4 mile long, and other slopes on mountain roads daily. We also get the lowest temperature gradient in the nation, highs to lows, so we go from ice, snow, slush, etc. in a day.
I have finally convinced my husband to go from studded to non-studded tires for the Sexy-9 (he is getting studded tires again for our Cherokee, our last set lasted 5 seasons, and now we removed the studs and use the tires for summer), and our local tire shop convinced him to get 17" rims instead of 18", which is originally what I wanted. Anyhow, the best option for this size rim seems to be the BLIZZAK DM-V1 $130/tire), which are new this year, replacing the DM-Z3. We are going through our local store vs. tirerack.com as they will switch out our tires 2x/year on both cars free of charge.
He also thinks we will skip the TPMS due to cost, as we are told when they swap the tire out, they also charge to reset or disconnect or ?? This part I don't understand. We will keep the tires on hopefully for only 4 months of the year...(Novemberish to Marchish) depending on snow levels, and we can cover up the TPMS light if it bothers us.
My question is, does anyone have any opinions about this set up with 17" rims. I am afraid it may look a little small for the car, but I don't know, as I haven't seen any pics. I suspect handling should be about the same for 17 vs. 18, but then again, I am not knowlegeable in this area. All opinions are welcome!! Thanks
Based on the posts on this forum, there are a lot of us that are using takeoff 18's as our winter wheels and a lot that are using 17" wheels from Tire Rack. Both options seem to work well.
It isn't so much a question of rim size as it is the outside diameter of the tire. The standard 18" rims on the Touring and the standard 20" rims on the GT both end up with the same outside diameter of the tire because the aspect ration of the tires is different. As long as your dealer is installing the appropriate size tire on your 17" rims, it shouldn't be a problem.
The TPMS sensor is built into the valve stem. To move it from one wheel to another requires unscrewing the retaining nut and installing it on another rim. Very easy, but it requires that the tires be removed from the rims. I just got a second set of TPMS sensors for my winter wheels. Personally, I think having the TPMS sensors on the winter tires is more important than the summer tires, as I'm more likely to end up with a low/flat tire in the winter.
It isn't so much a question of rim size as it is the outside diameter of the tire. The standard 18" rims on the Touring and the standard 20" rims on the GT both end up with the same outside diameter of the tire because the aspect ration of the tires is different. As long as your dealer is installing the appropriate size tire on your 17" rims, it shouldn't be a problem.
The TPMS sensor is built into the valve stem. To move it from one wheel to another requires unscrewing the retaining nut and installing it on another rim. Very easy, but it requires that the tires be removed from the rims. I just got a second set of TPMS sensors for my winter wheels. Personally, I think having the TPMS sensors on the winter tires is more important than the summer tires, as I'm more likely to end up with a low/flat tire in the winter.
