Best strut/$$$ option for MSP

[Brian MP5T]

My only problem with Tein's is that they won't be easily rebuildable. At least to my knowledge.

Why are you being paranoid about when they break instead of thinking how they will perform compared to an un matched set of suspension parts.

I have had them for 80,000 Plus and when they fail, I love them so much that I will simply replace them.

 

[Jas00x]

On your list, the bottom 3 are probably the best options (though it sounds like K-Sports are a good option) for serious Autocross use. I have the AWR/Bilstein combo on my FSP car, and its great. For tuning the suspension and handling I adjust the rear swaybar (AWR 21.5mm). You can get an adjustable front bar, but I think stock front bar is really all you need. Plus with all the alignment/ride height adjustments you can make, you don't really need the adjustable shocks to adjust the handling. Sure, ultimately they would be nice to have, but a correctly valved set of Bilsteins are not a bad compromise.
Springs: Both Justin and I are running 450# front, 600# rear and it really works well. Its not the nicest ride for Daily Driving, but its great on the autocross. I had an event this past weekend with some rolling bumps in the lot and it really never felt unsettled at speed.
I also strongly recommend front camber plates. It makes the front tires work more evenly accross the tread- adjust your pressures to get the best contact patch. The difference in grip is amazing when you are actually using the whole tire instead of just the outer half!
I have to recommend not buying anything at all if you can't afford the good stuff. If you are serious about building a competitve autocross car- wait until you can afford the real parts- because you are just going to buy them eventually.
If you are going to buy things piece by piece...maybe get just the rear shocks and coilovers, but at a lower valving and spring rate (450#). Then have everything revalved when you go for the front suspension- put the 450's on the front, and get some 600's for the rear.

 

[xelderx]

O
Springs: Both Justin and I are running 450# front, 600# rear and it really works well. Its not the nicest ride for Daily Driving, but its great on the autocross. I had an event this past weekend with some rolling bumps in the lot and it really never felt unsettled at speed.

Justin tested....Jason approved. Now which one of you pansies are going to test the 275 Hooiser? Huh?

Back on topic.....

 

[livelyjay]

Why are you being paranoid about when they break instead of thinking how they will perform compared to an un matched set of suspension parts.

I have had them for 80,000 Plus and when they fail, I love them so much that I will simply replace them.

Do you autocross? I don't really care if they are great for daily driving although it is good to know that they last 50k+ miles.

On your list, the bottom 3 are probably the best options (though it sounds like K-Sports are a good option) for serious Autocross use. I have the AWR/Bilstein combo on my FSP car, and its great.

When I say piece by piece, I mean racing seats here, roll cage there, suspension here, full header back exhaust there. So I am by no means cheaping out, I just can't buy everything at once. If the struts, be it Koni, Bilstein, etc last more than 50k I don't really care if they are more expensive. If they are easily rebuildable, it's a plus because then I can just buy insert replacements when they do blow. If the AWR is a simple gland nut removal and new insert, that's great and I will add them to the consideration list.

Springs: Both Justin and I are running 450# front, 600# rear and it really works well. Its not the nicest ride for Daily Driving, but its great on the autocross. I had an event this past weekend with some rolling bumps in the lot and it really never felt unsettled at speed.

Thanks for the spring suggestions. The car will be daily driven until I hit 150k. Then it gets retired to track only use. I'm thinking maybe I'll tone the springs down to 350 front and 500 rear just to soften up the ride a bit. Unless you think some other combination would be better.

 

[livelyjay]

Just to add another point to my piece by piece plan.

Suspension is my first priority. Struts/coilovers, camber plates, and the other STX legal support braces (rear strut tower, ladder brace, tie bar). I have the clunk fix brackets right now (shhh, I know they aren't stock class legal) and they help a lot with rear sway bar functionality. Easily rebuildable struts and easily replacable springs are very nice things to have so I can replace pieces without having to buy an entire new set.

Exhaust is second. Such as replacing the double cat pipe with a single high flow plus larger diameter pipe. Then replacing the mid pipe with larger diameter. I may also just bite the bullet again and buy a Vibrant exhaust. Header and S-pipe will be on hold until my car is track use only.

Cage, seats, and aggressive alignment will also be on hold until the car is track use only. I'm also thinking about a big brake kit, but since it's $1800 that is waaaay down the road and I doubt it is even necessary since this is only for auto-x use.

 

[xelderx]

Just do a short exhaust. Extending it all the way out to the rear bumper just adds extra weight. Legally you can stop it anywhere behind the driver. Don't worry too much about a BBK. They work nicely on roadcourse cars but are overkill for slowing down from 60-70mph. They could add extra rotating mass too.

 

[livelyjay]

Just do a short exhaust. Extending it all the way out to the rear bumper just adds extra weight. Legally you can stop it anywhere behind the driver. Don't worry too much about a BBK. They work nicely on roadcourse cars but are overkill for slowing down from 60-70mph. They could add extra rotating mass too.

I forgot about that too. I was thinking after the cat pipe I'd have a shop make me a side exit. BBK is out after I have thought about it some more.

 

[livelyjay]

The bilsteins are shortened and valved per our specifications and are specific for this package. They run around 200.+ per insert because of this. They are a very durable shock and rebuilds are few and far between!

The AWR setup is sounding more and more appealing.

 

[carbonkid]

great discussion thread...subn

 

[livelyjay]

Glad to have a thread that people can read and learn something from, or at least be interested in.

Since Corksport seems to be the only place that sells the Auto EXE coilovers, I just contacted them directly for more information about that product. Not having information about the item is a turn off from the get go, they also don't seem to have a web site that's in English. So we'll see where this leads.

 

[BradC]

K-sport question. I see a lot of posts trashing them lately, and some sticking up for them. What is the real deal?

 

[livelyjay]

If you autocross, don't buy them. The struts blow way too quickly. Shadow102 told me his blew in about 1.5 years, and I know some other people whom they have prematurely blown on.

I think the rule I am starting to see here is this:
If you don't autocross - go with option 1,3,4,5
If you do autocross - go with option 9,10,11

I don't know of anyone who runs option 6,7,or 8 so I can't speak for them. TurfBurn runs option 4 in autocross, and he is noticing build quality issues.

 

[Jas00x]

If Koni would have made some Sport Adjustables for the Protege, this conversation would be so easy. Koni Sports with Ground Control coilovers are the affordable performance standard for most autocross cars.
Unfortunately, they did not, so we end up paying quite a bit of money for some good aftermarket shocks.

 

[livelyjay]

You are most correct, which is why I put this thread in place. I wanted a centralized location for discussion about all the viable options for the Protege. It would be nice is someone with the Illuminas chimed in, because that could possibly be a nice budget option for auto-x depending on the durability or the struts. Tein BASICS are also a nice option, but I haven't heard from anyone running them either.

 

[drdking]

So if you were using the car for mostly Auto-x, but also Club Trials/Lapping Days, the best bet would be to go for the Koni double adjustable? I was looking at Tri-Points web-page, and could find them anywhere, all they had for the MSP was Break Pads and rotors.

 

[livelyjay]

I'd say if you are serious about running you car in auto-x and other competition, I would go with any of the bottom three options. The KW Variant is also an option, but no one has spoken up about them.

 

[JRTritsch]

I have just decided to do an STX build as well. I will probably have much to share. And I'm interested to see where your build ends up. I may, unfortuneatly, have to add another data point to the K-sport failure list. The price for the package seemed too good. I really wish koni sold a shock I could throw under some ground controls and do it the cheap way- properly
I also did the engine mounts, s-pipe back exhaust w/ single high flow cat and intake. I think thats all I will do for now and see where that takes me. I am not sure that the MSP is ever going to dominate in STX but should be reasonably competeitve.

BTW- Has anyone tried running the 235/40/17 advans or azenis on something like a +45 wheel? I'll think I'll find out in a few weeks

 

[Rogue]

I have had the TEIN SS on my car for nearly 90,000mi. I've only had one issue with them. The nut on top of the strut and worked loose, then wore away the strut top itself. I ended up snapping it off right after I took pictures for TEIN. I ended up having to send it to TEIN USA in California, and it was rebuilt for about $200.

Another thing you want to look into is if height adjustment is independent from the spring. IE: K-sports and JICs you can lower/raise the car w/o pre-loading the spring. The TEINS I have preloaded in the rear to raise it enough to keep it from rubbing.

I'll be in the market for a better "race" setup for next season.

 

[drdking]

So if I were looking for more information/where to buy the Konis, where would I go? I can't find them on Tri-Points page.

 

[carbonkid]

The KW Variant is also an option, but no one has spoken up about them.

Anyone have this setup???