BEGi FMICQ&A with Corky

[tlo]

BEGi FMICQ&A with Corky

BEGi FMICQ&A with Corky

Its easy to notice that I havent been on this forum for very long but the conversation I just had with Corky at BEGi performance has really helped my learning curve. So I wish to share what we talked about

This may help some who have been trying to decide on what FMIC to purchase

Please note that I know relatively little about this topic and what I tell you is basically a summarized transcript of our conversation about the BEGi FMIC

There have been many that have questioned the design of Corkys BEGi FMIC and I hope this will help with some of the questions

Q1) Why did you choose to use steel pipes as opposed to aluminum piping?

A1) I didnt choose to use aluminum for the following reasons:
-Aluminum transfers more heat than steal
-Aluminum is far pricier for what you get in return
-Dings really easy and you cant repair it once its damaged
-A polished aluminum pipe will corrode far faster than a powder coated steel pipe
Note: this can be delayed if you wax the pipe as opposed to polishing the pipe (He mentioned that polishing the pipe will actually corrode the pipe even faster)
-Steel on the other had is far cheaper than aluminum
-Powder coating Steel is far better than powder coating aluminum
-You have better welds with steel than with aluminum (smaller beads)
-Its far tougher and resistant to dings
-Weight is the only disadvantage
Note: This is the equivalent to roughly a pound in weight (He mentioned that you could make this up by taking a wiz before getting in you car)

Q2) Will you ship the BEGi FMIC with out powder coat so it can be polished later?

A2) If you would like, I can do that, BUT the metal will corrode immediately if you dont do something to treat it. His suggestion is that you get it Nickel coatedWill last forever and looks great
Note: He is checking to see if he can get this done for us before it goes out. (VERY COOL)

Q3) Can you get the FMIC straight from you?

A3) Yes as well as others(ProtegeGarage)

Q4) Dimensions of the FMIC?

A4) 18in x 3in x 6 1/8in

Q5) Explain the efficiency you claim out of the FMIC

A5) There are four things you want to keep in mind when designing an intercooler
1. Get heat out
2. Minimize Restrictions
3. Least possible volume
4. reasonable price

Details on number (3)
Volume is not import for boast per say...I could fill up my whole office with pressure from a turbo in less then a second. So no matter how large you core is, that turbo is going to fill it up...Where the volume is important is when you let off the gasFlow meter lagIf the FMIC is designed correctly (and installed correctly) it will take care of this back pressure This is were the design of the BEGi and its efficiency really shows up. The faster you can make the air move the better you can make the heat transferThe draw back is, you create more drag when the air is moving that fast The answer is to find a good medium of efficiency and pressure loss or drag. He mentioned that a good intercooler will be in the 80% efficiency range with, if I recall right, a .25 or .5 psi loss to drag.
His intercooler is right in that range

The BEGi is rated to have a 2psi increase in overall pressure

There was more but this was all the good stuff that I got done
Hope this helpsand I hope I got it all right
Thanks
Im going with the BEGi FMIC

 

[mazdaowner123]

Awesome info.

~brian

 

[strongbear0]

"Aluminum transfers more heat than steal"

That's the main reason to use aluminum over stailnless steel. It transfers more heat and in doing so takes the heat away from the charge. There have been hundeds of tests done on intake temperatures and it has been proven that intake temps are lower when aluminum is used.

Do a little research and you will see why the best choice for intercooler piping is aluminum. Even with the hiboost kit the cold pipe is made from aluminum while all the others are mild steel. Perrin=aluminum, turbohoses=aluminum, pannauto=aluminum. Must be some reason everyone is using aluminum.

 

[Stormtrooper77]

"Aluminum transfers more heat than steal"

That's the main reason to use aluminum over stailnless steel. It transfers more heat and in doing so takes the heat away from the charge. There have been hundeds of tests done on intake temperatures and it has been proven that intake temps are lower when aluminum is used.

Do a little research and you will see why the best choice for intercooler piping is aluminum. Even with the hiboost kit the cold pipe is made from aluminum while all the others are mild steel. Perrin=aluminum, turbohoses=aluminum, pannauto=aluminum. Must be some reason everyone is using aluminum.

I think what is meant here is that aluminum gets hotter than steel does. Actually, there was a test somewhere (I don't know where) where a comparison was done with an intake consisting of aluminum tubing and one with ss tubing. After about an hour of running, the aluminum intake was too hot to touch, while the ss intake was warm.

 

[peepsalot]

It seems like good heat transfer on pipes is beneficial in some places, and not so much in others. So it is hard to say which pipe is best for intake temps, and it probably varies depending on the layout of the particular car.

I would think that the ideal pipe setup could be created like so(although the gains would probably not be worth the effort.) Test the air temp inside and outside the tubing at every point along the intake system. If the oustide air temp is higher than the inside then you want that section of pipe insulated(put header wrap on, or use low conductive material for pipe). Otherwise you want to be able to radiate as much heat as possible. You also may need to make sure pipe is insulated well from it's connections to the turbo or throttle body, depending on the temps of those.

 

[tlo]

Received word from Ken at Protegegarage that Corky WILL be able to coat the pipes in your choice of Nickel, Chrome, and another coat that has a metal flake in it...Supposed to look awesome...
All at a price that is very close to the powdered coat price...
Just an update...
Thanks...

 

[MSPinVA]

I still don't understand why people use aluminum pipes. It's thermodynamic principles people: Heat transfers from hot to cold, period. That is law. If you cool the charge air temperature to below ambient engine temperature, then the charge air will heat. Aluminum has a lower specific heat than steel, making it hotter faster, but also cooling faster. The pipe will NEVER cool off while the car is running, and all the pipe is doing is heating back up your charge temps (heat travels hot to cold - hot pipe heats the colder charge temps, not the hotter ambient temps). The steel will stay cooler, longer, thereby decreasing your charge temps, unless you drive around for hours and hours without stopping to let your car cool off. It still boggles me why people spend ungodly amounts of money on these aluminum pipes. You want an aluminum intercooler for that same reason however, because of its great heat transferring properties, but not for hardpipes.

 

[Bhamsan]

When I kept referring to "polished" pipes, I meant something shiny, so chrome will do. This answers my question exactly.

 

[gboromsp]

Does anyone have any pics of this fmic with the front end on the car. I want to see how it compares to my Ion fmic. Sounds like a good product. I have stainless stell pipes on mine and they are much better than aluminum in my opinion. They never seem to get hot to the touch. I'm not sure about aluminum, I have never dealt with them.

 

[strongbear0]

I think what is meant here is that aluminum gets hotter than steel does. Actually, there was a test somewhere (I don't know where) where a comparison was done with an intake consisting of aluminum tubing and one with ss tubing. After about an hour of running, the aluminum intake was too hot to touch, while the ss intake was warm.

Who cares about how hot the pipe gets, the goal of an intercooler is to cool the charge, and aluminum resultes in a cooler intake temp and colder is better.

 

[strongbear0]

I see that reason goes to the wayside in this post. If steel is so much better than why dl, greddy, perrin, turbohoses, hks, and ever other large manufacturer of fmic's use aluminum. If steel were so much better than you would think that they would switch to steel.

 

[YuYuRena]

Who cares about how hot the pipe gets, the goal of an intercooler is to cool the charge, and aluminum resultes in a cooler intake temp and colder is better.

The core is aluminum. I believe we're discussing piping. And I agree aluminum pipes are just going to heat up what you cool down with the intercooler. Heat also go from high to low. so if your charge air is cooled by the IC then it's lower in heat than your engine bay. Now the aluminum pipe is not going to extract more heat from the pipe (charged air) to the engine bay because it has better heat transfer. Instead it'll draw the heat around the engine bay and direct it on the aluminum pipe because the air in the aluminum pipe is cooler than the ambient (engine bay) air temp.

If you can get heat to flow from low to high, I think you would solver our energy crisis mr. next bill gates

 

[Delivery_Guy]

I see that reason goes to the wayside in this post. If steel is so much better than why dl, greddy, perrin, turbohoses, hks, and ever other large manufacturer of fmic's use aluminum. If steel were so much better than you would think that they would switch to steel.

You should be careful about thinking that something is better just because that is what everyone else does. Look at the missionary position for example.

Aluminum on the cold side of the IC doesn't make much sense because it will cause the charge air to heat up more (than steel) between the IC and Throttle body. That's not good.

 

[strongbear0]

The core is aluminum. I believe we're discussing piping. And I agree aluminum pipes are just going to heat up what you cool down with the intercooler. Heat also go from high to low. so if your charge air is cooled by the IC then it's lower in heat than your engine bay. Now the aluminum pipe is not going to extract more heat from the pipe (charged air) to the engine bay because it has better heat transfer. Instead it'll draw the heat around the engine bay and direct it on the aluminum pipe because the air in the aluminum pipe is cooler than the ambient (engine bay) air temp.

If you can get heat to flow from low to high, I think you would solver our energy crisis mr. next bill gates

(fu)

 

[strongbear0]

You should be careful about thinking that something is better just because that is what everyone else does. Look at the missionary position for example.

Aluminum on the cold side of the IC doesn't make much sense because it will cause the charge air to heat up more (than steel) between the IC and Throttle body. That's not good.

You still have not answered why intake temps are cooler with aluminum compared to steel. And I think I would take the word of hks and greddy engineers over you. If they were not trying to produce the best product possible then they would include steel piping like all the other inferior products on the market. I chose perring because it is the best for our cars and it is a PROVEN FACT that intake temps are cooler when aluminum pipes are used. But what the hell, I don't care what you do with your money. If you want steel buy steel but don't make false statements. Aluminum pipes = cooler temps.

 

[Striker187]

i saw some pics on the protegegarage website.....does anybody understand the route this piping is taking???

tlo....tell ken to post more pics of the kit

 

[tlo]

Here's a thread posted by Ken about the Group buy in on the BEGi FMIC...It has a pic too...
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86008
Hope that helps some...
I'll let Ken know when I talk with him again...
Thanks!!!

 

[lamp3]

I just want to know if yall know how long corky has been doing turbo's and intercoolers? I LONG Friggin time!! Hell, he wrote the book on it. Litteraly.

 

[jaxmsp]

You still have not answered why intake temps are cooler with aluminum compared to steel. And I think I would take the word of hks and greddy engineers over you. If they were not trying to produce the best product possible then they would include steel piping like all the other inferior products on the market. I chose perring because it is the best for our cars and it is a PROVEN FACT that intake temps are cooler when aluminum pipes are used. But what the hell, I don't care what you do with your money. If you want steel buy steel but don't make false statements. Aluminum pipes = cooler temps.

We do not know how these temps are being measured. If these test results are from measuring the temp of the pipe itself, then the aluminum "cold" pipe metal will measure cooler than that of a steel pipe. That's because the pipe, which is conducting heat from the engine bay, is transferring its heat to the air within the pipe, which is then taken into the engine. That is exactly what is happening with aluminum hard piping -- and it WILL cause higher air intake temps, if these temps are properly measured. Not good.

Aluminum is a far better heat conductor than steel because it has a much higher thermal conductivity rating. Period. And that's why it's the material of choice for dissapating heat. You do not want to dissapate heat in this case, you want to insulate from it. And here's the real heresy to all the aluminum hardpipers: next to silicone pipes, the stock plastic pipes will do that better than anything else!

 

[strongbear0]

We do not know how these temps are being measured. If these test results are from measuring the temp of the pipe itself, then the aluminum "cold" pipe metal will measure cooler than that of a steel pipe. That's because the pipe, which is conducting heat from the engine bay, is transferring its heat to the air within the pipe, which is then taken into the engine. That is exactly what is happening with aluminum hard piping -- and it WILL cause higher air intake temps, if these temps are properly measured. Not good.

Aluminum is a far better heat conductor than steel because it has a much higher thermal conductivity rating. Period. And that's why it's the material of choice for dissapating heat. You do not want to dissapate heat in this case, you want to insulate from it. And here's the real heresy to all the aluminum hardpipers: next to silicone pipes, the stock plastic pipes will do that better than anything else!

Blah, Blah, Blah. Intake temp are lower when aluminum is used, as in the air going into the tb is lower you idiot. What other intake temp would we be talking about with an intercooler. Explain why it is lower when aluminum is utilized over steel.