nazgul350r
Member
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- 03 MSP & 08 CX-9 GT
Sucks to be slow. haha
Awesome Motorsports Pictures & Videos
- Thread starter Rogue
- Start date
My codriver putting the ZX2 thru its paces...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GfvAbQFzKw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQxgJvSRH3k&feature=related
These are from May 2009...was on 550/370 springs...now on on 650/550.
They do showcase the new stainless/aluminum side-exit exhaust...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GfvAbQFzKw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQxgJvSRH3k&feature=related
These are from May 2009...was on 550/370 springs...now on on 650/550.
They do showcase the new stainless/aluminum side-exit exhaust...
Inspector 24
Member
That's one buttoned down looking car.
So, stiffer FRONT springs? Seems an odd decision for a FWD car, why did you go that route?
So, stiffer FRONT springs? Seems an odd decision for a FWD car, why did you go that route?
Thanks! Answer: Because that is the way the BG chassis seems to work best...
At 440/370 (as delivered to us--unfinished project), the car is wicked-loose. We went to 550/370--and it was better, but would still stap spin in some circumstances...was like the rear was storing up enery in transition...and then SNAP...she'd let go. This is the setup in the videos.
We went to 650/550 a few weeks ago--and that feels excellent, except that out struts are being overwhelmed--the car is bouncy and 'nervous'. Still...even with that, we have had three events in a row where we have been right at 2 seconds off the fastest-of-the-fast SpecCivics (Frank/Mankowicz) on 60+ second courses...and beaten quite a few others.
We get the shocks dialed-in, and we should get back another big chunk of time.
So...about 600/500, based on other folks' experience--as well as ours, seems to be 'about right' for that chassis...for ST/SP setups.
Hitting the bump stops maybe?
Maybe--
It would take several transistions--like a multi-cone (ie 5) slalom--for that to happen...and it wouldn't happen all the time, but both Craig and I have had it happen to us...more than once.
The good news...It's not doing that now with the stiffer springs...just is bouncy, like way underdamped bouncy. Revalving (and some dyno time) should cure that...and we have a good guy that is not expensive near by for that work.
I think if we can get that ironed out--the rest of the setup is pretty spot-on...
Inspector 24
Member
Car looks very settled and flat. Though I'm really surprised at how stiff the springs are considering the weight of the car, and the tire and thus inherent grip limits you're working with.
Struts all around correct?
The rear is trailing links and two lateral links per side correct?
What size F/R Sway bar do you run?
Not doubting the setup, just curious.
Struts all around correct?
The rear is trailing links and two lateral links per side correct?
What size F/R Sway bar do you run?
Not doubting the setup, just curious.
Car looks very settled and flat. Though I'm really surprised at how stiff the springs are considering the weight of the car, and the tire and thus inherent grip limits you're working with.
Struts all around correct?
The rear is trailing links and two lateral links per side correct?
What size F/R Sway bar do you run?
Not doubting the setup, just curious.
No sweat--we are kind of 'inventing our own wheel' as we go along. There is no BG recipe like the Redshift Civics have...
Its flat...its *NOT* settled--yet. We are underdamped--car is bouncy...it wasnt as bad in the video (550/370 setup) as it is with the 650/550 setup...but the new setup, aside from that feels much better.
Will Kalman ran 600/500 on his STS Escort GT--we all share the BG Protege chassis (Protege/MX3/ZX2/91+ Escort/Kia Sopheia...). That is where we first honed-in on the rates; his car had NT wins in the pre-SpecCivic days. David Avard and Joe Graves had similar BG cars too. I discussed this setup with him on sccaforums last year in fact...just took us this long to get our similar. I had a hard time believing that increasing the rears would reduce the oversteer. Fact is: it did.
FWIW--Justin (XelderX) has similar rates on his FSP car--albeit with more grip. Similar weight to us...we're at 2250 +/-.
Yes--all struts, and FSB is a custom 15/16" (OE is a 1")...and rear is a 2-way 22mm--it came with the car. (ZXTuner might be the brand). We went smaller on FSB along with the bigger springs--wanted better forward bite. Also made the camber plates into caser plates and then slotted the strut housings on the lower mounts to get back the camber. Caster is about 5 and camber is about -2.5 (was about 3 and -3 before). This car makes over 150hp at the crank--guessing closer to 160 in fact (stock S/R made 150 advertised)...so getting the power down was an issue; it is much much better now than it was before.
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Try a slightly slower entry speed and accelerate through the slalom. That should keep the car from unsettling and increase your exit speed. If the car is feeling good everywhere else and it only comes unglued in long slaloms I would just try and drive it a little different there. No car will ever be perfect everywhere. My car doesn't like to trail brake from fast sections into slow jerky sections. Everywhere else it is great so I just try not to get over aggressive going into tight transitions. That way I can be on the gas sooner and use the HP advantage.
Its no longer an issue--was with old rates...all good now (we seem to think) except for being underdamped with new rates. Until the most recent setup, the car always felt 'nervous'...just did not inspire confidence that you could drive it in a corner and have complete confidence that it would behave. Its close now...
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Inspector 24
Member
Erik, I know exactly how you feel when you say there is no 'recipe' I've been doing very much the same as you have with the MX6, trail and error.
I'm still surprised at the rates you run for such a light car, do you know what wheel rate those give you?
I guess I'm surprised as I run 450f 550r on a heavier car (2550) who's suspension isn't a huge amount different and everybody always comments on how little my car moves around, how planted and firm it feels.
But, cars being cars, no two are alike...no matter how similar the suspensions may be. This I know.
Will you be in Lincoln?
I'm still surprised at the rates you run for such a light car, do you know what wheel rate those give you?
I guess I'm surprised as I run 450f 550r on a heavier car (2550) who's suspension isn't a huge amount different and everybody always comments on how little my car moves around, how planted and firm it feels.
But, cars being cars, no two are alike...no matter how similar the suspensions may be. This I know.
Will you be in Lincoln?
Erik, I know exactly how you feel when you say there is no 'recipe' I've been doing very much the same as you have with the MX6, trail and error.
I'm still surprised at the rates you run for such a light car, do you know what wheel rate those give you?
I guess I'm surprised as I run 450f 550r on a heavier car (2550) who's suspension isn't a huge amount different and everybody always comments on how little my car moves around, how planted and firm it feels.
But, cars being cars, no two are alike...no matter how similar the suspensions may be. This I know.
Will you be in Lincoln?
I think we'll be ready to travel next year--the nice thing about ST* in Milwaukee, is that we have a very deep pool of speedy cars and talented drivers...so we can benchmark with the best-of-the-best without travelling.
The goal is to get within a fat second of those guys on a consistant basis--we're not far off as-is, IMO.
Our car is in the mid 2200's w/o driver. The wheel rates--I image--are close to the spring rates--all struts. I'm not an engineer--so I have to pick that stuff up as I go. The 'movement' in our car--at least now--I am convinced is in the (under) damping, not the springs. Its flat (roll wise) in the corners; the old setup still yielded a fair bit of roll as evidenced by a number of still photos.
I dunno--It's one of those things that is hard to quantify...but it just 'feels' better now. Forward bite is better. Transition is better. Our results for three consecutive local events (since we went heavy on the springs) have us closer to the Frank-owicz Civic than before too...and *that* is not so hard to quantify!
Inspector 24
Member
Eric, if it's feeling better, AND you're going faster that's pretty positive affirmation right there
Sorry for the lack of pics, here ya go. A little oopsie from last years season finale.
Yes, those are my sig pics.
Sorry for the lack of pics, here ya go. A little oopsie from last years season finale.
Yes, those are my sig pics.
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