Autocrossing and a modified MS3...help!!

[AutoXRacer]

I would bet that those camber links help keep more than you think. Mazdaspeed parts are well thought out and I am sure they do more than drain your wallet. As for the cars your racing against, are you sure they didn't switch to race rubber to create the time defficit your seeing. It really sounds like your on a poor tire choice.

I'm not saying my tires are all that great... Like I said, they are stock RX-8 equipment tires. The RX-8 crowd does well with them. Though, they don't have to deal with 300+ TQ... I thought these tires were descent good quality street performance tire, not near MX or Azenis status though... I think they are the same tire as the MS3 stockers...just wider.

 

[Craighjr]

You said you turn DSC on? I think you can't do that. If you hold the button at start up you defeat dsc and trac, if you just press the button it only turns the dsc on or off and the trac is always on.

 

[Sacrilicious]

I would bet that those camber links help keep more than you think. Mazdaspeed parts are well thought out and I am sure they do more than drain your wallet. As for the cars your racing against, are you sure they didn't switch to race rubber to create the time defficit your seeing. It really sounds like your on a poor tire choice.

i don't know about that, actually. first, i did a visual inspection, and it looked the same. then i did an alignment at my dealership, and they gave me the readout of what all my settings were, and the camber was very safely in spec, so unless there's something i'm missing, i really don't see a problem.

 

[AutoXRacer]

You said you turn DSC on? I think you can't do that. If you hold the button at start up you defeat dsc and trac, if you just press the button it only turns the dsc on or off and the trac is always on.

Well, I press the button while the engine is running and that turns off traction control for me. If I do the whole start-up thing where you hold the button, start the engine, and hold it for another 3 seconds, it then turns off traction control and stability control.

I can only turn stability control off with the start-up method.

 

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Keep in mind that the Mazda 3 and the Mazdaspeed 3 almost have the same stock length struts/shocks. So if they are using a 225/40/17 and you are using a 225/40/18, there is an inch more of travel available for cornering. Also the car is 200lbs less so it will not shift as much weight into the rear as your car.

 

[Craighjr]

Well, I press the button while the engine is running and that turns off traction control for me. If I do the whole start-up thing where you hold the button, start the engine, and hold it for another 3 seconds, it then turns off traction control and stability control.

I can only turn stability control off with the start-up method.

You got that reversed. I checked my car before I posted that. The button says dsc on it. Once running you can only defeat the dsc not the trac control. So at the events you are turning off dsc and leaving trac on but still pulling burnouts mid trac? At the next event ask the other drivers what tire pressire they run and if they leave the dsc/trac on.

 

[AutoXRacer]

You got that reversed. I checked my car before I posted that. The button says dsc on it. Once running you can only defeat the dsc not the trac control. So at the events you are turning off dsc and leaving trac on but still pulling burnouts mid trac? At the next event ask the other drivers what tire pressire they run and if they leave the dsc/trac on.

It's weird... When I press the button while the engine is running the DSC light comes on, but traction control is disabled... I tested it; I'm able to shift hard into second and there is no interruption in power.
If I do the start-up procedure, the car feels very loose in the corners (over-steer happy) and traction control does not engage.

I think my dashboard lights are wired incorrectly...

I will ask the guys next month... If I don't have my new tires by then, I'm going to run the stockers and see how it handles.

 

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

You got that reversed. I checked my car before I posted that. The button says dsc on it. Once running you can only defeat the dsc not the trac control. So at the events you are turning off dsc and leaving trac on but still pulling burnouts mid trac? At the next event ask the other drivers what tire pressire they run and if they leave the dsc/trac on.

I don't think the Mazda 3's have traction control, correct me if I'm wrong. I know for a fact that a 2006 Mazda 3 GT doesn't.

 

[Craighjr]

When the skidding car light is on the trac is off. You can do huge burnouts then. The dsc button and light are the drivers stability control and that may alow some more wheel spin as well.

2007 speed 3's we are talking about do. My 2001 focus had it too, it was an oddity back then.

 

[Aaron2112]

also learn to heal-and-toe shift(like its second nature), that will help your corner speed and exit speed as well. somewhere on here there is an excelent write up on heal-toe.



EDIT:http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123697731
The first link will take you to a page that has very in depth description on heal-toe.

 

[Craighjr]

Keep in mind that the Mazda 3 and the Mazdaspeed 3 almost have the same stock length struts/shocks. So if they are using a 225/40/17 and you are using a 225/40/18, there is an inch more of travel available for cornering. Also the car is 200lbs less so it will not shift as much weight into the rear as your car.

If the strut top to knuckle measurement is the same between 3 and speed 3's (which I think he is racing identical speed 3's) the 1" rim size differance only causes .5" to show in increased ride height.

 

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

If the strut top to knuckle measurement is the same between 3 and speed 3's (which I think he is racing identical speed 3's) the 1" rim size differance only causes .5" to show in increased ride height.

I'm sorry, you are correct.

 

[AutoXRacer]

When the skidding car light is on the trac is off. You can do huge burnouts then. The dsc button and light are the drivers stability control and that may alow some more wheel spin as well.

2007 speed 3's we are talking about do. My 2001 focus had it too, it was an oddity back then.

I don't know... (huh)

My indicator lights and functions don't match up...

I swear, when I press the button while the engine is running, DSC lights up, but I can spin wheels freely... I've never tried to do a burnout though...I do haze the tires though...

And when I do the start-up squence, the DSC and squiggly lines light up and the car feels loose in the corners...

I tried both settings one run each...and this is what I noticed.

I don't know how else to describe it... If I leave it on default, the handling is solid, but I get traction control to engage...feels like engine dies when it senses an abrupt traction loss; thats traction control right?

I think who ever wired up my car at Mazda was drunk that day!!(drunk)

 

[MS3077]

I just attended my 3rd autocross with my MS3 this weekend. Though it was fun, I was very frustrated because stock MS3s were leaving me in the dust by 2 or more seconds... (sad) (bang)

My issue was traction!!!! (burnout)

The guys were telling me I was smoking my tires from corner to corner...the whole course (it wasn't clouds of smoke, more like hazing). That was fun!!!

But there was nothing I could do. I'd roll on the throttle and tires would break loose at any speed and any throttle position. When I tried to control wheel spin, my times suffered. The only way I got my best times was at WOT letting the tires spin.

Those of you that have autocrossed/raced your MS3 longer than I have, do you have any suggestions/recommendations?

I know the tires I'm running don't help. I am running RX-8 (18x8) wheels with the stock bridgestone 225/45/18 with little life left.

I am planning on purchasing 225/40/18 Kumho MXs and if these are no longer available on sale; I'll go with Falken Azenis; both these tires are very comparable.

I am also thinking about stiffer springs to reduce weight transfer to the rear...but there are only a couple of vendors for springs (Mazdaspeed and Cobb) and I don't know which is a better match for the stock shocks/struts, spring rate, harshness, etc... But that will be for later mid-year or so...

Thanks for the help guys!! (2thumbs)

My intent for this post is primarily more along the lines of driving technique/inputs. Secondly, modifying the car to reduce undesirable handling characteristics.

I'm getting Yokohama Parada Spec 2's in 225/40/18. This is what Mike from SU recommended for sprited driving / track days, etc.. Plus their only like $129.00 a tire.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I'm getting Yokohama Parada Spec 2's in 225/40/18. This is what Mike from SU recommended for sprited driving / track days, etc.. Plus their only like $129.00 a tire.

I wonder how they handle autocrossing...? (huh)

I know for ultimate traction in a street tire; its the Azenis and MXs. The closest to an R-compound you can get for the street...

(scratch) I'm unfamiliar with the Parada Spec 2's though...

 

[MS3077]

I wonder how they handle autocrossing...? (huh)

I know for ultimate traction in a street tire; its the Azenis and MXs. The closest to an R-compound you can get for the street...

(scratch) I'm unfamiliar with the Parada Spec 2's though...

Tell you the truth I don't know much about them. I just asked for advice and that is what one person suggested, I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination. I was also told that 12,000 miles is about all we can expect for high performance summer tires on our speed 3's. To me this makes sense considering I'm at about 11,200 and the stock potenzas are about gone (boom08)

 

[AutoXRacer]

Yeah, in my Miata, I used to replace tires every 10 months or so...

The stickier the rubber, the softer it is, the quicker it'll wear...

 

[AutoXRacer]

This is what my tires (racing set) look like... I bought the wheels with these tires; I didn't buy it for the tires...
Figured I'd race with them till they were spent...

According to Ab Lincoln, they are already spent... (lol2)
Would this be the cause of my excessive wheel spin?

 

[Tigs]

I don't know... (huh)

My indicator lights and functions don't match up...

I swear, when I press the button while the engine is running, DSC lights up, but I can spin wheels freely... I've never tried to do a burnout though...I do haze the tires though...

And when I do the start-up squence, the DSC and squiggly lines light up and the car feels loose in the corners...

I tried both settings one run each...and this is what I noticed.

I don't know how else to describe it... If I leave it on default, the handling is solid, but I get traction control to engage...feels like engine dies when it senses an abrupt traction loss; thats traction control right?

I think who ever wired up my car at Mazda was drunk that day!!(drunk)

After engine startup if you press that button the dsc light does come on. It doesn't mean that traction control is disabled. It has simply pushed the threshhold back much farther so you can spin the tires and what not without having it cut in suddenly, up to a certain point.

As for which to use on Autocross, I'd suggest either just toggling off the dsc prior to your runs, or disabling both (press the button on initial startup and hold it for 3seconds say). You are correct in that running through a course with dsc on will lower your times. For me it was a matter of over 2 seconds since I lost boost several times when it sensed some tire slip.

 

[Texaco]

After engine startup if you press that button the dsc light does come on. It doesn't mean that traction control is disabled. It has simply pushed the threshhold back much farther so you can spin the tires and what not without having it cut in suddenly, up to a certain point.

Thanks for that response. I noticed this in the snow/ice. Toggle DSC while driving and you can spin them up through 6th gear on the ice if you want. Giving the appearance that you are totally disabling traction contol.

Makes a lot more sense now. Toggle DSC and it is disabled with some TC disabled. Do the key on thing and everything is disabled.

Sorry for getting off topic.