Audio upgrade 101

[Mercure]

I just bought a 2002 P5 to replace a 1997 Corolla. This car has a lot more character (!) but I only really have one problem that is important to me - namely, the stock stereo of the P5 vs. the Corolla sounds chintzy. It gets loud enough for me and the high range sounds fine but there is no bass to it. I even notice it listening to people talking. For the record, I did actually try turning the bass control up. hehe. Anyway, I don't *need* my pants to throb, just to get a satisfying bass sound. I actually was pretty satisfied with the Corolla's stock stereo, so it can't be that involved to close the gap between them, can it?

I am assuming that the biggest difference is coming from the speakers, since I can't really imagine that it is difficult to engineer a HU to produce signals including low frequencies, and since the sound gets plenty loud, just not on the low end. So it sounds like the thing to do would just be to find and install speakers with nicer woofers. I don't actually know anything about car stereos so I was wondering if anyone could tell me whether this sounds right.

Thanks!! Mercure.

 

[servoeyes]

You'd be better off getting a small box 8" woofer with a little amp to power it, than seeking bass from aftermarket speakers. I'd say, for about 200-250$ you could do a nice set-up that'd blend right into the stock sound and just add a little thump. You could even do it for a little less if you can do the install.

--edit--
that may seem high...but it'll sound better than going to best buy and getting one of those goofy deals for 2 12" subs and an amp. I'm talking about an SQ setup that'll sound accurate and nice.

 

[hi-perf]

a temporary solution for a nice bass kick was the mp3 subwoofer from the factory.

email me if you are interested, i am looking to get rid of mine as i replaced it with something that thumps much harder


but the mp3 sub adds a good kick to the stock system in the mp3, its very noticable, powered and blends in with the trunk very well, looks like a factory installed piece, which it is.

 

[1sty]

I just bought a 2002 P5 to replace a 1997 Corolla. This car has a lot more character (!) but I only really have one problem that is important to me - namely, the stock stereo of the P5 vs. the Corolla sounds chintzy. It gets loud enough for me and the high range sounds fine but there is no bass to it. I even notice it listening to people talking. For the record, I did actually try turning the bass control up. hehe. Anyway, I don't *need* my pants to throb, just to get a satisfying bass sound. I actually was pretty satisfied with the Corolla's stock stereo, so it can't be that involved to close the gap between them, can it?

I am assuming that the biggest difference is coming from the speakers, since I can't really imagine that it is difficult to engineer a HU to produce signals including low frequencies, and since the sound gets plenty loud, just not on the low end. So it sounds like the thing to do would just be to find and install speakers with nicer woofers. I don't actually know anything about car stereos so I was wondering if anyone could tell me whether this sounds right.

Thanks!! Mercure.

Just a though, but have you taken a look under the door panels yet?
I smell something strange here.
Possibly some crappy aftermarket speakers or even a factory one put back in out of phase.

 

[Mercure]

You'd be better off getting a small box 8" woofer with a little amp to power it, than seeking bass from aftermarket speakers. I'd say, for about 200-250$ you could do a nice set-up that'd blend right into the stock sound and just add a little thump. You could even do it for a little less if you can do the install.
that may seem high...but it'll sound better than going to best buy and getting one of those goofy deals for 2 12" subs and an amp. I'm talking about an SQ setup that'll sound accurate and nice.

This is useful information. That doesn't seem too high if it would do the job. The box would just sit in the back, is that right?
Are the ones with the built-in amps inferior?
If I were also going to get aftermarket speakers, would one amp serve for those and the sub, or does the sub want its own amp?

 

[1sty]

This is useful information. That doesn't seem too high if it would do the job. The box would just sit in the back, is that right?
Are the ones with the built-in amps inferior?
If I were also going to get aftermarket speakers, would one amp serve for those and the sub, or does the sub want its own amp?

Sit in the trunk.
Yes, integrated amp/subs are typicly garbage.
It could if you bought a 4 channel and used the front channels to the front speakers and bridged the rear channels to a sub.

 

[Mercure]

Just a though, but have you taken a look under the door panels yet? I smell something strange here. Possibly some crappy aftermarket speakers or even a factory one put back in out of phase.

Hmm, that sounds like it could be a good idea. How would I be able to tell?

 

[1sty]

Hmm, that sounds like it could be a good idea. How would I be able to tell?

I fyou remove the door panels and find aftermarket speakers thats one clue.
Then remove the speaker and look at the wires in the back. It should be a holded clip and the connection should not be severed anywhere. Also is it a stock headunit? If so I would pull it out and be sure nothing has been cut and reconnected back there.

I am thinking out of phase becuase your description is typicly that. The Protege system has some decent mids and midbass, atleast in my experience and comparisions. If one speaker is out of phase then the midbass is essentialy cancled out and never heard. Missing vocal "fullness" is usualy a great indication of a speaker or 2 being out of phase. A sub should have no impact on the vocal range so adding one won't help with that.

Also I am technicly talking about polarity but we can go into that later

 

[Mercure]

I will post with what I find when I've had a chance to check it out. Thanks

 

[Luv2RedLine]

I live in Durham. But am at school in High Point. I've been coming home on the weekends lately because I have to get my parents house ready to sell. If you need any wiring help I can give you a hand. If you decide to buy an amp/sub/anything aftermarket and need help, DON'T PAY somebody to do it for an enormous amount. I'll do it. I've wired a good number of cars and have a decent knowledge in car stereo. Even though what I have now doesn't show it. I bought things before I really knew what I wanted and what I should get.

 

[Mercure]

Do I feel sheepish... the speakers are stock and hooked up fine.

The important variable here was that I was listening to the radio rather than CD. The sound quality from the P5 radio is just listenable (though I am a little picky), while the corolla got really good sound from both, which is the difference I noticed. But in the P5, it is very noticeably better from the CD player, esp. that low end. Having looked around at some reviews, a few got really harsh on the P5's stereo. I think they either had slightly excessive expectations relative to the class, or (like me) formed their opinion by listening to the radio!

I do think the speakers are not quite as good as the corolla's, but the difference isn't at all large - it is in line with what I might expect. It does sound pretty good. I would consider upgrading if I had something burning a hole in my pocket, for the sake of pickiness, but there is nothing wrong with the system.

I love my car

Now I just need to hire someone to hold my drinks.

 

[pr5owner]

if you want a good system (full replacement) try in this order

1: Good head Unit
2: Good speakers for all 4 corners
3: Good Sub Woofer and Amp
4: Good amp for speakers

if dont want to rip out everything and you want a little more bass get one of those combo's like infinity bass link built in sub/amp/enclosure

 

[Poseur]

Another option would be to find someone with the factory sub and assorted guts from an 03.5 It basically lifts your floor about 3" and adds a sub-floor organizer tray and a sub/amp combo that fits inside your spare tire. I just pulled mine out, but I'm not really sure if I'm selling. I think ppl generally let them go for a bit over a bill. The nice part is it's totally unobtrusive. I actually kind of miss thsoe days, damn I could fit alot of stuff back there when I didn't have to make room for my sub.

I honestly used to rather enjoy my stock setup. I actualyl fought off the bug for most of last summer, but in the end it always gets the better of me...

 

[sndsgood]

i'd doubt the midbass on the stock system would be affected at all by reversing the polarity on one speaker, not powerful enough.

i'd suggest getting a decent 4 channel amp. running a sub off of it, a simple 10" sq sub. then putting small caps on your front speakers to cut the bass out. if that doesnt quite cut it for you. u can upgrade the front speakers or upgrade the headunit.

 

[Mercure]

OK, here is the long term plan. I am going to keep my HU (features-wise just holding out for the aux input, since all I really care about is MP3 support) and try either A) front speaker upgrade, B) some kind of woofer upgrade.

From what I read, the results for (A) front speaker upgrades are poor unless you have power, and you definitely need some kind of amp for (B) a sub. Either way I'll need an amp - given that integrated amp is not recommended very highly and people often mention getting a 4ch amp and bridging two to the sub, a decent little amp would be a good investment.

For front speakers I do not want to change the stock look at all and I prefer what is easier. Getting decent coaxials dropped in is what seems most attractive to me, but the consensus seems to be the components are a lot better in terms of sound. I don't know how much weight to assign to this, I don't want to do anything I'll regret a lot later of course.

As far as the sub is concerned my problem (quite typical apparently) is where the space comes from. The novel solutions to this are the bass shaker, and someone else mentioned 6" woofers in another thread. Maybe the solutions could be combined (wacky). Otherwise, it seems to be consensus that it's easier and better sound quality just to get a smallish pre-fab box and put it in the back - fin. Some people get fancy with false floors and special enclosures, this isn't really something I'm considering at this point.

Thanks for the help so far - you all rock

All the past posts on this make me consider writing a mini-faq on low level P5 upgrades with a decision tree linking to people's suggestions at the leaves.

 

[cthomp21]

Another way to add a little kick to the factory system and lose no space at all would be to put some Aura Bass Shakers under the front passenger seats powered by a modest Amplifier which you can install with this Amp Wiring Kit. Total cost of about $100 plus shipping.

I used a pair of bass shakers in my wife's Miata where space is at a very high premium. They worked surprisingly well at creating a low-end with no subs or enclosures. It wasn't overpowering or out of this world, but it would be a nice augmentation to the factory system with no use of space.

 

[Mercure]

That's very interesting/novel. Was getting them mounted an easy job, and would you put the amp under the seat as well?

For anyone who runs across this and is interested, here are a couple of threads about bass shakers:
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56370
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55587

And an interesting discussion of frequency response:
http://www.baudline.com/~erik/bass/news_dump.txt

 

[cthomp21]

That's very interesting/novel. Was getting them mounted an easy job, and would you put the amp under the seat as well?

For anyone who runs across this and is interested, here are a couple of threads about bass shakers:
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56370
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55587

And an interesting discussion of frequency response:
http://www.baudline.com/~erik/bass/news_dump.txt

You'd probably want to pop the seats out and mount them to the bottom of the seats. The bass shakers perform better when mounted to a surface that vibrates easily (i.e. the seat as opposed to the floor underneath the seat).

Four bolts, lift out seat, four sheet metal screws to attach bass shaker to seat, replace seat in car, wire 'em up, and enjoy the vibrations.