ARP Head Studs ?

[azian6er]

i remember Beau and Nick going at it.

I believe the consensus was 90 ft lbs for the studs and then 90-95 for the nuts. Maxx was correct.

That is what im going to have my guy do -- make sure you use the moly lube.

-Bryan

 

[Maxx Mazda]

I really don't give a ****, since it's your engine, but why not torque the studs even if you don't "have" to? It just seems dumb to me not to do it...

Ya it was the thread where Beau and Nick from MPI went on and on and on for pages and pages and pages, and somewhere in there were the torque specs.

 

[ForceFed]

ARP confirms....
Hand tight on the Stud....
Then Tighten to the required torque SPec.

Sorry..But ARP has been doing this a long time..I trust their Tech dept.

They Said Tecnically...1-3 ft./Lbs. on the stud...then Torque the nuts to the Spec in the box....but hand tight would suffice just fine.

I believe thats the Downright end of that subject right there.

No need for arguements.

 

[Jaysanooch]

Yup mine was done like that, but the problem I have with those recommendations is that they are for stock P5's and stock Msp applications.

What about extreme applications when your boosting double, even tripple? That's why torquing the nuts to 80-95lbs also made sense to me.

I don't know but I sure don't want to find out the hard way.

 

[JDM Sam]

LOL @ torquing the stud.

The stud threads have a limit as well. Too much and you risk distorting the ALUMINUM head.

 

[mdl247]

ARP confirms....
Hand tight on the Stud....
Then Tighten to the required torque SPec.

Sorry..But ARP has been doing this a long time..I trust their Tech dept.

They Said Tecnically...1-3 ft./Lbs. on the stud...then Torque the nuts to the Spec in the box....but hand tight would suffice just fine.

I believe thats the Downright end of that subject right there.

No need for arguements.

not arguing or anything just a simple question lol, if the stock studs are a long bolt and torqued down why wouldn't you torque the studs and the bolts on the arp .
Don't really catch get that.(smash)

 

[ForceFed]

not arguing or anything just a simple question lol, if the stock studs are a long bolt and torqued down why wouldn't you torque the studs and the bolts on the arp .
Don't really catch get that.(smash)

See..I agree...because the Nut and Stud will only Turn until the Required Torque Seting is reached then "Click"
Nut and stud are then at the required torque setting.

Use whatever spec is included in the packaging. As you see, there are two different values depending on whether you use the ARP lube or motor oil.

Lube the top threads of the stud where the nut will thread on, not where they go into the block. Snug the studs with a t-handle into the block. Lay head gasket onto motor and place cylinder head on top. Lube washers and nuts, snug them in the factory spec'd rotation onto the studs. Then tq them to half final value, then fully torque them.

DO NOT torque the studs and do not use Mazda fastener specs. The spec sheet included with the ARPs is fastener specific and sometimes application specific(ie. iron block/alum head or alum block/alum head).Do not double nut, you shouldn't have any extra fasteners.

The included specs from ARP are for the nuts only. In the dozens of motors I've assembled using ARP head studs, not once have the studs been torqued and not one customer had a problem. The owner of the shop has also done it this way for more years than I can count.


EDIT- I don't see how you can torque a stud with a 5mm allen socket to 90ftlbs w/o damaging it. If the stud needed to be torqued ARP would make the tip hexagonal to allow for such a high torque.

DO NOT USE FACTORY TORQUE SPECS ON THE NUTS! The factory bolts are torque to yield, so it's like 30 ft lbs plus 180* The ARP bolts don't stretch like the stock ones, so they need to be torqued differently. Do them in sequence, and step the torque values too to keep from pinching your head gasket.

The stud should turn a little. ARP includes different torque values depending on the lubricant used and the extra stud movement is accounted for. The nut gives you all the clamping force you need. Why would you torque a stud? Do you torque studs on any other application?

This group of statements pretty much sums it all up.

 

[JDM Sam]

(thought)
The reason you don't torque the stud is you are twisting the fastener horizontally when it should only be stressed vertically.
You negate one of the benefits of using a stud vs a head bolt by torquing the stud. Also, I'd like to see someone try and torque that stud 90 ft lbs.

 

[JDM Sam]

BTW, nuts and studs are not the same as bolts. The terminology is getting thrown around incorrectly in here.

Factory head fasteners are TTY bolts
ARP head fasteners for the FS are studs with 12 pt nuts.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

(thought)
The reason you don't torque the stud is you are twisting the fastener horizontally when it should only be stressed vertically.
You negate one of the benefits of using a stud vs a head bolt by torquing the stud. Also, I'd like to see someone try and torque that stud 90 ft lbs.

I've torqued my studs themselves (before head was on) to 90 lb ft.

 

[JDM Sam]

yeah and that's not how you install the ARP head studs.

 

[TheMAN]

Just a quick question....

The paperwork that came with my head studs lists specified torque installation values for installing the studs...but it is a general Spec sheet..not application (CAR) Specific.

Shuld I use their torque values or should I use Mazdas for the head bolts?

I thought these were supposed to be installed to a "Torque Angle"?

Or is that just the Main Studs?

Thanks in advance for the answers guys.
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did you not read the sheet carefully? it says at the end of it to follow the manufacturer's torque sequence... that tells you a lot that whatever is shown on that sheet IS what you need to do!

I thought you knew all these things about cars to know something as simple as this! nevermind

 

[TheMAN]

I've torqued my studs themselves (before head was on) to 90 lb ft.

what did you do? toss the ARP instruction sheet in the trash when you opened the box or did the wind blow it away?

I guess now we know why you said you had problems with head studs and why they "suck" and instead should be using the stock head bolts instead

 

[ForceFed]

did you not read the sheet carefully? it says at the end of it to follow the manufacturer's torque sequence... that tells you a lot that whatever is shown on that sheet IS what you need to do!

I thought you knew all these things about cars to know something as simple as this! nevermind

Last I checked..I asked about torque Values..nothing about sequence.
But that right..your the almighty ass...only you know it all.

And yes..I did read it..and there is enough BS info that doesn't apply on one of their sheets that it would make the guy who wrote it question what to do and what SPecs to use.

But thanks again for your wonderful input..Once again..your still my favorite.

BTW....There is absolutley nothing wrong with verifying your info and thoughts BEFORE doing something so as not to make an error.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

what did you do? toss the ARP instruction sheet in the trash when you opened the box or did the wind blow it away?

I guess now we know why you said you had problems with head studs and why they "suck" and instead should be using the stock head bolts instead

When the **** did I ever say ARP head studs suck and we should be using the stock head bolts instead? I think you've got me confused with Nick from MPI... Get your facts straight.

Speaking of the ARP instruction sheet, try reading it yourself sometime. Better yet, do as Matt and I both did and call ARP directly to figure it out.

I thought your breath just stunk like s***, but I guess you were just talking out of your ass...

 

[TheMAN]

ok, my bad.... I confused you with brian MP5T... some how I'm still doing it... you both are from canada, have a P5 and turbo'd them... no, I never read anything from MPNick about head studs

 

[TheMAN]

Last I checked..I asked about torque Values..nothing about sequence.
But that right..your the almighty ass...only you know it all.

And yes..I did read it..and there is enough BS info that doesn't apply on one of their sheets that it would make the guy who wrote it question what to do and what SPecs to use.

But thanks again for your wonderful input..Once again..your still my favorite.

BTW....There is absolutley nothing wrong with verifying your info and thoughts BEFORE doing something so as not to make an error.

like I said... whatever is shown on the sheet is what you need to do... you follow what it says to the T and you'll be fine

anyway, it's fun to play in the mud still

 

[Maxx Mazda]

ok, my bad.... I confused you with brian MP5T... some how I'm still doing it... you both are from canada, have a P5 and turbo'd them... no, I never read anything from MPNick about head studs

MPNick was the one i nthe thread in question that was a proponent of the stock TTY bolts.