Apexi AFC NEO??? ANYBODY ALSO NEED HELP WITH WHAT I THINK IS A BAD TUNE!!!!

[noyesboy]

Alright i bought a MSP Last night, when we test drove it the kid said that he had takin it to this guy to tune it for him and that he had it "set up" so you could go full throttle after 3500 rpms and the car would pull crazy?!?! so when we were test driving it it did just that but if u get into boost even a little agressively before 3500rpms its acting like its leaning out crazy and stuttering BAD!! I was driving the car home last night after cruising around and getting used to it and it cooled off quick outside, the car wouldnt do crap i couldnt get on it at all without it fuel cutting/leaning out i was just wondering if anybody else has this problem


THE mods on the car Are
Injen cold air,
Turbo back 3in catless exhaust,
27inch corksport fmic,


any help would be greatly appreciated as i would like to actually be able to drive it soon, i have been debating on if i should get it retuned by someone else, or try to get the stuff so i can try to tune it myself for future mods that i'll probbably never have money to do haha, heres the deal i get $1300 bucks coming next friday so i need to figure out what to do to get it to run well, i would also like to be running 10psi.


Ok just talked to a guy that can tune it, He says he takes the car for a couple days and street tunes it then we go to the dyno and tune somemore, price is $400-500, if i did that wouldnt it be worth it for me to get bigger injectors so my 10psi goal could be reached, what other supporting mods would i need to run 10 psi


i figured if i go the other way and try to tune myself it would cost 300 for boost, wideband air/fuel and fuel pressure gauge, and then which ever piggy back i choose was wondering if anyone has ran an apexi AFC NEO????


The main goal here is to get the car to run good through the whole rpm range, i just dont want to be screwing myself over if i can get more hp out of the deal!!SORRY FOR THE HUGE POST I"ve been resarching stuff on this car since i have been lookin at buying this car and i just cant find any info that pertains to my current situation!

 

[HighSpeed]

Wow, ok well you have alot going on here.

Apexi AFCs simply don't work that well on MSP's, the stock ecu learns around most AFCs. Look for a split second afc (SSAFC) which is a constructed for the MSP. Better yet I would take the $1300 and get some serious standalone ems and skip the AFC all together. Then save up to get it installed or tuned.

 

[shane02pro5]

Look up Split Second AFC it will work with the stock ecu unlike anything Apexi offers (the stock ecu will eventually learn around the apexi)

Stock injectors will be good for 10psi with a proper tune. You may have a boost/vac leak from a loose coupler or cracked vac hose causing a rich condition most likely. A bost gauge and wb are pretty much a necessity with these cars and a Turbo XS knocklight is also a very wise investment.

 

[noyesboy]

The whole problem is this 1300 im getting is gonna HAVE to get the car running good, cause i wont have money to spend on it for a long time, so thats why im trying to make the most of it, with a new tune and supporting mods, thats kinda the way im leaning now! What supporting mods do people have that are running 10psi??? would i even need bigger injectors to run that much boost??

 

[noyesboy]

I've looked at the split second piggy backs and it looks like everyone is using the PSC1 which isnt a bad price, ok my new question is if that guy that "tuned" this car messed it all up wouldnt putting a piggy back on it probably not do a whole lot!?! considering all your changing is fuel with the piggy back

And i was for sure gonna get a boost gauge and a wideband, i wish i had a fuel pressure gauge right now so i could throw it on and see for sure if it was getting cut

 

[shane02pro5]

Stock injectors will be good for 10psi with a tbe and fmic. Wb and boost gauge and knocklight will keep things in check! There is a how-to for the SSAFC install and tuning I believe.

 

[shane02pro5]

Something must be already in place if it actually was "Tuned" or the ex owner is full of it!

 

[Ricktalife]

The cheap and quick way to do things:

1. Ditch the Apexi
2. Buy an SSAFC V2 (comes with datalogging)
3. Tune yourself (take your time and make small changes)

There is an ssafc sticky thread in this section of the MSP forum so look at the first couple threads posted to find it. You should be able to handle it with all the information in there.

 

[StealthWyvern]

With 1300 you can get a full standalone with a custom wired PNP harness from JDMSam and more then likely a some what decent tune.

 

[Valk]

just ditch the apexi and get a ssafc and ride on the mods already done. you might get yourself a bigger downpipe but the kid might have beat the s*** out of it and your $1300 might be spent fixing s*** on a second hand modified car..

assuming your car is running properly after you remove the apexi; Id get a used split second, new/used steedspeed mani and if i had cash left see about getting a pep downpipe since you have a 3" exhaust already.

that with the mods you already have would be plenty to blow up your motor and if you wanna get serious, your well setup to drop in forged s*** and up the boost with a proper ems later.
id get used to the car a little before doing too much to it.

 

[StealthWyvern]

Crap I should of actually read the post first before putting my input on a standalong.... 2nd hand car.. Take it to a local tuner shop and have them go over it, do a full tune up, get a smoke test done on it, and change all fluid. From that point I would look into you options!

Take it from someone who purchsed a 2nd MSP and DIDN"T get it looked at with a fine tooth comb. Yes I had a mec look at mine but the nitty gritty details a "normal" mech just wont have the tools and more then likely isnt into the turbo stuff like a tuner shop would be. However from what your telling me it sounds like its still ont he factory ECU. You can't tune these cars like a honda. Its either piggy back, standalone or nothing.

As mentioned earlier something else is already in place if its tuned(could just be dealer reflash he is calling a tune). If thats the case its still crap.



Edit: IF ANYTHING GET A SMOKE BOOST LEAK TEST DONE AND CHANGE THE PLUGS! YOU WILL NEED TO KNOW WHERE YOU STAND WITH IT BEFORE YOU THINK ABOUT DOING MORE MODS TO IT!!!!! Also check the turbo for shaft play.

My car when i first got it ran alright but without a boost leak test I would of never known it was leeking at literally every coupler in boost. They all had tears or tiny cuts in them that strangely didnt affect idle. My MSP has been one hell of a learning curve for anyone with a first time turbo car.

 

[noyesboy]

ok i was thinking i need to make end caps and pressure test my Ic piping, and i'll try to get a video made of how and what the car is doing i picked up a boost gauge today and my friend is gonna let me use his fuel pressure gauge to see if its actually fuel cut thats happening to the car if ist something else, so thats good to know about the tune, im pretty sure this kid that had the car before me needs a beating!!! i'm workin 7am to 6pm all week and i live in the middle of BFE so running around to pick up stuff to test out the problems is a big challenge specially cause i have kids haha so i'll try to get a video up on youtube tommorrow i'll have to use my crappy little video camera but maybe it'll work, i drove the car a little tonight and it seems from a 40 roll in 2nd rapped to 4 grand if i full throttle it picks up with no problems and u can run through the gears with maybe a little blip in 3rd, but if ur in 3rd or really any gear and your below 4200 rpms and throttle up it starts stuttering super hard! IDEAS ON HOW TO TEST FOR WHAT IM DOWN ANYTHING NOW

 

[SeR_Cyclops]

Dont be getting on the car and it not running well. You need to make sure the boost is not above stock levels, take the Apexi out, put the car back to 100 percent bone stock if you dont have the money to be fixing the problems with the car because one thing I have learned from all the years with my MSP, if you mod her she will break and it will cost you out the ass (If your not doing your own work).

BTW Welcome to the Forums!

 

[noyesboy]

I dont have an apexi afc in the car i was just asking if anybody has run it in an msp, i used the older S-afc in an awd talon and liked the setup, but now i see that its lookin like the SSafc PSC1 is the way to go, i bought a boost gauge today so that will be on tommorrow night and hopefully we can rig a fuel pressure gauge to test what its doin when its stuttering

 

[StealthWyvern]

ok i was thinking i need to make end caps and pressure test my Ic piping, and i'll try to get a video made of how and what the car is doing i picked up a boost gauge today and my friend is gonna let me use his fuel pressure gauge to see if its actually fuel cut thats happening to the car if ist something else, so thats good to know about the tune, im pretty sure this kid that had the car before me needs a beating!!! i'm workin 7am to 6pm all week and i live in the middle of BFE so running around to pick up stuff to test out the problems is a big challenge specially cause i have kids haha so i'll try to get a video up on youtube tommorrow i'll have to use my crappy little video camera but maybe it'll work, i drove the car a little tonight and it seems from a 40 roll in 2nd rapped to 4 grand if i full throttle it picks up with no problems and u can run through the gears with maybe a little blip in 3rd, but if ur in 3rd or really any gear and your below 4200 rpms and throttle up it starts stuttering super hard! IDEAS ON HOW TO TEST FOR WHAT IM DOWN ANYTHING NOW

Stock tune... and its really 4k rpms when the car goes into open loop.


Edit: Look at this dyno plot from my car on stock tune and underboosted(only running 3 psi) You can see where the car switches from closed to open loop around the 4k rpm mark. Trust me I know albuquerque NM is in the middle of no where but its not as bad as Channing, TX. I think we used to play against you guys in track or basketball but not 100% sure.

 

[noyesboy]

I dont live in abq i actually live an hour away from abq. in a town so small it has a 2 gas stations and a half of a grocery store with no stop lights haha so your saying im pretty much just leaning out because the open loop doesnt kick in til 4grand??

 

[StealthWyvern]

I dont live in abq i actually live an hour away from abq. in a town so small it has a 2 gas stations and a half of a grocery store with no stop lights haha so your saying im pretty much just leaning out because the open loop doesnt kick in til 4grand??

pretty much. I have you beat on small town... only 277 people and i think thats counting peoples pets, 1 light and its not even a stop light, 1 gas station and hour north of amarillo., 30 min from Dumas or Dalhart. However with tha said i haven't lived in that town in roughly 8/9 years.

 

[Spiced MSP]

looks like everyone already touched on the topic, SSAFC is your best option. Standalone is top of the line, hands down the best but is not really needed if you don't plan on doing an all out build. That's all Im going to say, everyone else already hit the major points...good luck with getting it running right

 

[jeffmsp]

have you tried putting it back to stock boost to see if it drives poorly at 6psi? do you have a vented blow off valve? have you tried to pressure test the intake system with a hand pump? for all you know even something stupid like the injector o-rings or EGR valve could be leaking under boost/vac and causing the car to run like crap. what kind of vac are you getting at idle?

 

[noyesboy]

alright the cars running perfect now me and friend slappeda boost gauge on it IT WAS RUNNING FRIGGIN 15lbs well let me see here maybe thats the problem haha That kid before me had the vaccum line attached T'd off of 2 sensors on the top of the intake mani, not sure why but it wasnt getting as much vaccum so its fixed now and running like a top steady 6lbs, so now my next question everybody keeps talking about the SPLIT SECOND AFC is that the psc-1 or the Ftc cause the ftc also lets u mess with timing, and costs 300 bucks more if everybody is using the psc1 i'll for sure pick one up on friday!!! please shed some light on this cause SS afc isnt helpin me, also which actual one are u guys running the psc-1 002???? 003?????