i like the ability to shift from maps on the fly. cobb dose a lot of testing on the car and its parts. the tune is not just a wot and idle where it runs good its all over the bord it runs good. granted they are conservitive tunes 10-20 horses left on the table but thats ok for me.
ap from cobb
- Thread starter LENNY127
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With the AP you cannot do anything except load one of the pre-configured maps or monitor your car.
With the street tuner you will be able to make your own maps.
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- 2002 BJFW, 2007 BK3P, 1979 SA22C, 2005 BK3P
1. its not the most important test to be done when putting out a part of this nature and not one that the average consumer cares about
2. i don't own a mazdaspeed3 and our sponsored client doesn't want any of the current systems on his car. we will be putting one our mazdaspeed6 with the XEDE at some point down the road.
if we go by this logic, we would need a graph for manifold plus XEDE, manifold plus CP-e standback, manifold plus ProCEDE, manifold plus Accessport..... because you are going to get people who will use one system and not the other and invalidate the results that way. at some point you have to draw the line and say "this is what the part does for your car." to even say "tuning for the manifold" really doesn't mean squat, honestly. are you tuning for what, the better exhaust flow, the faster spooling turbo, etc? these are things the factory ECU can easily learn within a drive cycle, and we've seen that on tru-boost's car. the gains you get from tuning are more than likely going to be just that - gains you get from tuning. its easily possible to take a totally stock vehicle, slap a piggyback on it and get 40 more horsepower on the car. XEDE does it for the ms3, Accessports do it for Subarus, etc etc. Its a no brainer to say that having a manifold and tune on the car is going to give you a gain. lets not forgot, how we tune the car isn't going to be identical or perhaps even close to how someone else tunes the car. so unless we're the only company selling that map for that unit with that manifold, that tuned result won't be anything to anyone other than web forum eye candy.
ok now this is ridiculous. you buy a part and blow up your car, its on you. end of story. you go buy a part from JEGS, pop your engine and tell them you are going to sue them. if you did, they'd probably hang up. its not going to be any different with me. what you do with your car is your responsibility. just like when you mod your car, blow it up and expect the magical mazda warranty to swoop down and take care of you. not going to happen. if i personally put something on your car wrong and caused it to blow up, maybe you'd have a wooden leg to stand on. maybe.
you don't need a piggyback or tuning solution for a cold air intake, a bypass valve, an exhaust system, spark plugs, down pipe, test pipe. an exhaust manifold is no different. if you needed a tuning solution for an intake or exhaust, mazda wouldn't be selling them at dealerships. its not a fragile paradigm of automotive shenanigans going on under the hood. this isn't the day or carburetors where you need to re-jet and reset them for every bolt on part. there is a reason ECUs can learn from the sensor input and are mapped the way they are. when you have a car being sold in several different climates, regions, altitudes, et al the system is going to be able to adapt for those vehicle running conditions. leaner, richer, etc the ECU is setup within a broad range to adapt to them and run perfectly fine without human intervention. i saw your argument with haltech about tuning in some other thread before it got ugly.
this is not to say you will not get the best results without tuning. you absolutely, with the right guy at the keyboard, get the best results with tuning. but your vehicle is not going to blow up from the aforementioned bolt ons and thats simple fact based in knowledge of how these cars operate, how the ECUs operate, and two plus years of these engines on the market being modded in three different platforms.
lol, there is nothing magical about mazda warranty! (rofl2)
mrlilguy157
Member
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- 07 mazdaspeed 3
ken's a smart man.
It shouldnt really matter what tuning tool you use, tuning is tuning. A simple graph on a stock car and a car that has been tuned for its modification should be simple and as a parts supplier and manufactor you should provide this. I personally will not buy this just because you think that im asking too much, and by you saying no tuning is needed or recommended, I will steer far clear of parts with your name on it. I still find it funny people say "this ecu is so advanced" and "this ecu will learn for all the mods" I think you people are crazy. As of right now, there are NO tuning devises out, thus no REAL results as far as im concerned. I think Cobb will bring alot of light to this car, time will tell.
I know you have alot of fan boy's on here and I will get flamed for this post but so be it, I would expect much more from a big parts supplier than this gibberish you just posted.
I know you have alot of fan boy's on here and I will get flamed for this post but so be it...
I'll be the first...You're a homo(butt)
jk man....just givin' you s***!
Renzokuken
Member
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- 2007 Mazdaspeed 3
Gawd, Im still over here trying to save up for my FMIC. I think Im gonna sit the AP out till after they have all the extras on it sorted out.
redrocketz
Member
It shouldnt really matter what tuning tool you use, tuning is tuning. A simple graph on a stock car and a car that has been tuned for its modification should be simple and as a parts supplier and manufactor you should provide this. I personally will not buy this just because you think that im asking too much, and by you saying no tuning is needed or recommended, I will steer far clear of parts with your name on it. I still find it funny people say "this ecu is so advanced" and "this ecu will learn for all the mods" I think you people are crazy. As of right now, there are NO tuning devises out, thus no REAL results as far as im concerned. I think Cobb will bring alot of light to this car, time will tell.
I know you have alot of fan boy's on here and I will get flamed for this post but so be it, I would expect much more from a big parts supplier than this gibberish you just posted.
Are you serious so you want us to take the only one that existed and take it off one car and put it on another car that is stock and tune it. But you just said there is nothing out there to tune the car so are we supposed to go into the future and get a cobb and tuning software to tune for an exhaust manifold? It is not necessary to tune for an exhaust system and guess what a turbo manifold is... I guess you won't be buying an exhaust or intake then since they don't post up gains with tuning. Any ecu nowadays can tune for a slight change in air flow or I wouldn't want to be driving it. This isn't the days of carburetors.
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- 2002 BJFW, 2007 BK3P, 1979 SA22C, 2005 BK3P
It shouldnt really matter what tuning tool you use, tuning is tuning. A simple graph on a stock car and a car that has been tuned for its modification should be simple and as a parts supplier and manufactor you should provide this. I personally will not buy this just because you think that im asking too much, and by you saying no tuning is needed or recommended, I will steer far clear of parts with your name on it. I still find it funny people say "this ecu is so advanced" and "this ecu will learn for all the mods" I think you people are crazy. As of right now, there are NO tuning devises out, thus no REAL results as far as im concerned. I think Cobb will bring alot of light to this car, time will tell.
I know you have alot of fan boy's on here and I will get flamed for this post but so be it, I would expect much more from a big parts supplier than this gibberish you just posted.
i never said tuning was not recommended. if you actually read what i said, i did say that the best results will always be had with tuning. its not even a matter of reading between the lines, its a matter of actually reading the lines themselves. give that a shot before trying to imply you know at all what you are arguing.
to say that "tuning is tuning" and then say "there is no tuning for this car" states clear as day not only the contradiction, but just how much you don't know about this car or tuning in general. i've personally tuned more cars with more varieties of standalones, piggybacks and interceptors than twice what you've owned in your entire lifetime. i don't need inexperienced people who are nothing more than armchair tuners telling me what i need to provide as a parts manufacturer or suppler. industry standards do not provide the irrelevant results you ask for. i cannot even put into the tenth percentile of companies out there that would go to the lengths you recommend when there is verifiably nothing to be proven by it. granted, there are some parts that would you would remiss to not tune for - larger turbos, super agressive camshafts, different compression pistons. an intake or manifold or downpipe is not any one of those by a mile.
let me put it to you this way - if you think the computer in an OBD2 CAN protocol vehicle is incapable of making adjustments for a cold air intake or an exhaust manifold but perfectly capable of making eaxcting adjustments for temperatures ranging between -40 and 110, barometric pressures below sea level to 14,000 feet then you either grossly exaggerate the effects of a basic bolt on to an automobile or simply have zero comprehension how these systems work. unless you have an engineering degree, more experience than me, or built and programmed one of these systems, you are wrong and you are spreading misinformation - gibberish as you call it - and thats all there is to it. if i were a vendor more interested in spreading chicken little nonsense to sell expensive parts, i'd probably do that myself.
i don't give a hoot and holler if you spend one red cent with me, what you think of 'fan boys' or if you agree with me or not. i've been doing this longer than alot of you have had a driver's license and am quite comfortable with my skill set and knowledge. beyond that, the real world backs me up. where are the mazdaspeed6s with DNP manifolds, cold air intakes, turboback exhaust systems, on stock boost and stock turbos with blown motors? where after 40,000 plus miles are all those dangerously operating vehicles teetering on or at the brink of disaster?
unless the masses are silent and i am not mistaken, a vast majority of the popped DISI motors have been thanks to larger turbos, progressively more boost on larger turbos or much more boost on stock turbos with poor or with no tuning. in the instance of bigger turbos, hell yes i'd 110% recommend tuning. but the kind of testing you recommend for a bolt up manifold is worthless. the whole aftermarket doesn't rely on testing like that, not because they are lazy, but because its inconsistent at best. you may have heard of the scientific method in grade school - you test one variable among a sea of constants to obtain a factual result.
i invite anyone to disagree with me through intelligent discourse.
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personaly i see it as more real world gains your going to get out of the install. when listing a non tuned install. I hate going through magazines and through the internrt and see add stating by +20hp by installing this part +15hp by installing this CAI +8hp installing this sticker 5% gins in fuel economy and hp by installing this turbonator, only to look at the small print at that says install plus tunning. sometimes i get a good laugh out of it and fell sorry for the person that buys the product only to lose hp. i remember following the install on an upgraded turbo some magazine, magazine showed install of CAI, TBE boost controller a couple of other small perfomance mods, then going a few pages back and the turbo manufactuer claimint +xyzhp gains which was totol diffrence from baseline to end product not the diffrence of just parts install. i see that way dishonest. i want to know real world gains what if i by this part and install just this part what gains am i going to see. sorry to have to post this here where it adds nothing to the cobb AP but i f i add im still anciously awaiting the AP pending release.
You do realized the MS6 did NOT have the piggy back installed when the motor blew a rod right? The stock ECU was reset too so it has nothing to do with the piggy back system...
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- 2002 BJFW, 2007 BK3P, 1979 SA22C, 2005 BK3P
putting the logic, reason, facts and the science of the argument aside, you are spot on the money.
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- 2002 BJFW, 2007 BK3P, 1979 SA22C, 2005 BK3P
any average joe with a Dash Hawk or any other OBD2 scan tool worth a lick can see that your fuel trims are going to be far more radically affected by varying ambient air temps, coolant temps, absolute pressure changes and other environmental factors than slapping on an intake or catback, etc. those factors do alot more to the operating parameters of an engine and the systems are designed to make corrections based off of them. if the systems weren't designed to do these things, we'd be no better off running EFI or DI than we would running a blow through four barrel Weber.
shorthand version of my stance; there are mods that require tuning and those that do not. the parts debated in this thread do not require tuning to be safe, they do not require tuning to have an impact. will you get better results tuning a car to your parts and your conditions, absolutely. will the parts under debate here fail to perform without tuning, no. are you putting yourself at risk from an intake or an exhaust, not in the least bit. modern ECUs rely on a dizzying array of sensors and data to determine how the cars run. Mazda does not sell a particular car for a particular region, the ECUs are programmed and designed for those contingencies and make adjustments which are far more involved than any aftermarket intake or exhaust. this is why in part ECUs log sensor data over several drive cycles. there is not any consistent evidence to the contrary, not here, not on sixclub, and not on threeforums. cars do not run on rigid hardwired Atari 2600s and if you think the systems are truly that simplistic you are grossly misinformed. this isn't a sales pitch (it would be a pretty poor one on my behalf in that i am not forcing people to buy into something) this isn't fan boy rhetoric, this is fact. there are certain mods which so drastically change how the car operates that it falls outside the parameters of the ECU - significantly larger turbos pushing more volumetric CFM per PSI, running much more boost and bypassing the factory fuel cut to do so.
exhaust manifolds, intakes, exhausts don't even come close to falling into that category.
i hate to continue to take this thread off track, but i'll gladly defend myself and my methods against people who inflammatory, ill advised, misinformed or just plain wrong.
shorthand version of my stance; there are mods that require tuning and those that do not. the parts debated in this thread do not require tuning to be safe, they do not require tuning to have an impact. will you get better results tuning a car to your parts and your conditions, absolutely. will the parts under debate here fail to perform without tuning, no. are you putting yourself at risk from an intake or an exhaust, not in the least bit. modern ECUs rely on a dizzying array of sensors and data to determine how the cars run. Mazda does not sell a particular car for a particular region, the ECUs are programmed and designed for those contingencies and make adjustments which are far more involved than any aftermarket intake or exhaust. this is why in part ECUs log sensor data over several drive cycles. there is not any consistent evidence to the contrary, not here, not on sixclub, and not on threeforums. cars do not run on rigid hardwired Atari 2600s and if you think the systems are truly that simplistic you are grossly misinformed. this isn't a sales pitch (it would be a pretty poor one on my behalf in that i am not forcing people to buy into something) this isn't fan boy rhetoric, this is fact. there are certain mods which so drastically change how the car operates that it falls outside the parameters of the ECU - significantly larger turbos pushing more volumetric CFM per PSI, running much more boost and bypassing the factory fuel cut to do so.
exhaust manifolds, intakes, exhausts don't even come close to falling into that category.
i hate to continue to take this thread off track, but i'll gladly defend myself and my methods against people who inflammatory, ill advised, misinformed or just plain wrong.
lolz
I like how you claim you know me, and you know what kind of cars I have owned in the past. What are you, in your early 20's? You act like a 15 year old.
You winning and stomping your feet because im simply asking for a gain from YOUR manifold with TUNING. I dont care how many cars you have tuned. If your the man, TUNE IT AND POST RESULTS! Stop giving me these 5 paragraph one sentance replies with excuses.
You winning and stomping your feet because im simply asking for a gain from YOUR manifold with TUNING. I dont care how many cars you have tuned. If your the man, TUNE IT AND POST RESULTS! Stop giving me these 5 paragraph one sentance replies with excuses.
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