Alternator Questions

[ZeroAccess]

Aight, I'm wanting to install two amps in my car
an Orion 2100 HCCA Comp. Amp and an Alpine to run my mid/highs

Aight total there will be anywhere from 1,200-2,000 watts rms being ran. The stock 80amp alternator will not cut it. I'm having a small problem finding people who will build me an upgraded alternator and was wondering if anyone here has had better luck than me and how much it cost them?

 

[hi-perf]

i think the only person who had a custom high output alternator was 1sty.

 

[ZeroAccess]

Before anyone blows a gasket I've been searching for a while now
The only thing I can find is 1sty saying he knows someone in Florida that can do it but he never responded with the link.

And everyone saying "get a yellow top blah blah blah"
Yes I know, I want a yellow top and Kinetic sealed battery in back and! at least a 160amp alternator.
I'll be running 2,000watts rms 1,500 to sub and 500 to speakers.
So I'll definately need some reinforcements.

 

[chuyler1]

I am running 830w off the stock alternator and battery. My car isn't stalling and my alternator hasn't died yet. The battery is in decent shape but I will be replacing it soon since it is almost 4 years old.

No one here has upgraded their alternator. Any shop that gives you a quick answer and says it can be done...will probably tell you later that they don't know how to do it. The alternator is regulated by the ECU making things difficult. If you are willing to sacrifice your A/C you can always install a second dedicated alternator for your sound system.

However, as your research tells you, just get an Optima battery and be done with it. I'm sure you'll be happy with how it sounds. After all, I highly doubt you will be making use of all 1,500w going to your sub. At 500w to my pair of 8" subs in a Protege5, I have convinced many listeners that I'm running 10"s or 12"s with twice the power. Any more power would just be for bragging rights or sound-offs.

 

[ZeroAccess]

Thats what I'm planning to do is enter the local audio contest around here.
I was really hoping that we could upgrade our alternators I may have to come up with another solution. Thank you for the insight though maybe I can pioneer this corner of the protege world. (just the alternator not the audio lol)

 

[chuyler1]

Good luck then...but keep in mind it isn't just us that can't do this...it is most of the car audio industry. Certain cars installers will look at and say "no-can-do" and this is one of them.

Another option, which will turn out to be more economical is to buy one of those large capacitors (10-20 farads). That will store enough juice for you to get a burp or two in at your local car audio competition.

 

[ZeroAccess]

I'm looking at installing a 2nd dry battery and running an isolator for the back.
Spoke with a few people about the alternator since I'm a mechanic I'm actually going to see if I can take the ECU out of the equation by disconnecting the alternator and hooking the car to a charger and letting it run for a while with everything at max. Just to get an idea. If worse comes to worse I may install a 2nd alternator if I get really big into this crap. Realistically I just want to be able to listen to my music at a very loud lvl from outside the car while its idling. Not all the time of course but a fair amount and I really don't want to go eating up alternators 24/7

 

[vindication]

my friend ran 4 15" type r and another set of 4 15" subs(not bith sets at same time obviously) and he never changed the alternator. did have a cap. though.

 

[ZeroAccess]

Do you have more information?
I don't want my lights dimming and eating alternators. A little dim pfft I don't care about just don't want to look like strobe lights.

I plan on running a yellowtop , secondary battery w/ isolator, and a cap to help smoothen everything out. I realize I won't need the cap but my thinking is that it'll smooth power spikes at a quick refresh rate (am I thinking the wrong idea for the cap)?

I also was going to do the big3 obviously (ground wires)

 

[kyle's protege5]

just wondering if you ever came up with a solution for your alternator yet? It sucks you cant just take it in and have it rewound like i did on my 2 hondas. About $200 and 250 amps, you cant beet that!

I'm running:

2 POLK 12's
1 set POLK 7" components in front doors
1 set POLK 6 1/2" components in back door
1 set POLK 5 1/4" components in back hatch

amps are all JBL's
800.1
90.4
180.2


Battery was an Optima yellow top, but after going through 2 of those in like 2 yrs, I got a red top this time. Alternator is a new, but stock one.

I can dim my lights to the point they almost turn off!!! Amusing, but annoying.

I've considered caps, but have heard mixed reviews on them. Plus for the size I would need I always hoped it would be cheaper to just get the alt. rewound.

I've noticed that my volt gauge when just driving down the road, radio down or off, it will sit at 14v then just drop to like 12v then go back up to 14 randomly. Does it idle too. WTF? any ideas?

 

[chuyler1]

Options are still the same.
Replace your A/C compressor with a 2nd alternator
Add batteries and/or capacitors

The voltage fluxuation is typical and that is why most car audio amplifiers now have regulated power supplies that allow them to put out the same power at 11v as they do 14.4v. The Protege idles around 13.8v but any time a piece of electronics turns on the alternator has to readjust and this causes a flicker of low voltage. Try playing with your power windows...that will usually cause things to bounce around.

 

[Joker_Fl]

Chuyler...give it up man...they come on forums asking for help and when you tell them the bold truth they through a fit cause its not what they want to hear. This is exactly why i stopped posting on this forum.

I competed in car audio for 4 years on the stock alternator in my protege. Used one battcap 400 and a yellow top. I went through many types of amps pulling around 480 amps max at the fuses.

The only amp you have pulling seriouse power is the HCAA, which IS NOT going to pull enough power to give you any problems.

Stay away from capacitors, use battcap or kenetic sealed batteries to stiffen the power and for the love of god wire correctly. You need high power quickly to burp? Then use "0" guage everywhere you can, and put your battcaps directly into your amplifier. An aftermarket alternator will not help you.

And if you still feel you need an aftermarket alternator, then do it, when you car doesn't move cause the ecu fried you can sit in your driveway with the battery charger on your car and listen to your stereo and look at your pretty new alternator.

Sory for venting, but Chuyler knows what he's talking about...and people still don't listen to him.....*sigh*

 

[chuyler1]

There you have it folks. Testimonial from a true competitor.

...but if you want to win SPL competitions, may I suggest selling your protege and purchasing a Chevy Astro Van. Plenty of room for amps, batteries, and alternators. And who cares if it has A/C.

 

[kyle's protege5]

i knew about the ecu controlling the alt, just didnt know if anybody made any advances in figuring out a way around it.

Batcaps are those different kind of batteries correct? Whats so different about them?

And i agree on not getting caps, i've heard from many they are a waste of money.

As far as wire goes, im running -1 awg to the back and 4 awg to each amp. All the grounds including amps, alt, starter, everything under the hood are also 4 awg.

Thanks for the info guys!

 

[bumpin-MX6]

i was looking into getting a new high output alternator. ive now been convinced. thanks chuyler

 

[Joker_Fl]

The battcaps hold a charge and have a very fast discharge rate. In this they act like a capacitor. But they also work like a battery in that they only dishcarge rapidly when need to.

A capacitor allways tries to discharge as fast as possible. This can even damage or hender performance of some high current amplifiers. A few amps I can think of off hand are old school us amps, orion HCCA, DLS and ARC.

It sounds like your wireing is fine. If your running the stock battery feel free to dispose of it at a local batteries plus and pick up an orbital battery (doesn't have to be an optima, im using the actual Orbital brand in my new comp vehicle and its doing great and for about $50 cheaper). I would check on car audio forums for a battcap 400 to put in-line with your HCCA (fused of course). You should be able to get one of these on the forums for about $75-$150. You can usually pick up new ones at car audio shows where battcap is at for $100, they blow them out at their both usually. (I just picked up another 400 and an 800 for $200...about $500 worth of battcaps at spring break nationals.)

That should clear up any problems you may have, you may also just want to add a second orbital to the trunk if you decide to pull some seriouse power. But in all honesty, with the two amps your running, an orbital battery and a battcap 300 or 400 should be plenty.

I had my 3 ARC Audio SE amps running on one yellow top and a battcap 400 without a single problem on the protege. Was enought to win several SQ championships and to pound out a nice even 147bd @ the driver seat out of a single 15 in a sealed enclosure.

If you have any questions feel free to pm or post here since im sub. to this forum.

 

[chuyler1]

I don't know if this information applies to the MX6. The ECU issues apply specifically to the Protege and I'm sure carry over to many newer models, but someone else will have to confirm that your MX6 is the same because I don't know.

 

[bumpin-MX6]

well i replaced my battery with a optima red top and no longer have problems. besides my trunk rattles. but my cap read 145 amps and i thought i would need a new alternator im into car audio myself but i dont know everything but many people said i should be fine on my stock alternator so thats the way im gonna go for now.

 

[lisevolution]

http://www.therpmstore.com/product_info.php?cPath=143&products_id=440Just found this, not sure what the deal is though. Says it's available in 180 or 200 amps....

 

[kyle's protege5]

http://www.therpmstore.com/product_info.php?cPath=143&products_id=440Just found this, not sure what the deal is though. Says it's available in 180 or 200 amps....

Me likey!(yippy)

You see it was just added to their catalog on March 28, 2007.

I'm gonna email them and ask how it gets around the ecu thing.