About to start a BIG Project...

[TippytheHippy]

Big to me anyway LOL!
9-3-2009
Hello Everyone!
I have a 2008.5 MazdaSpeed 3 CWM. I haven’t started much on my car. I followed the stereo upgrade that was posted here by 6262MS3 (thanks), but it wasn’t enough. I wanted more. I have installed some really nice rims size: 18x8- 5x114.3/112/120 by RPM. They have 38mm offset and I eventually had to roll the fenders. I have an Eastman roller BTW for sale (SORRY SOLD!). Looks great and the rubbing is gone. I also made some Carbon fiber Decals like the stripes posted here. I hard installed a Valentine One. Oh yeah, I installed the Jack site stealth box.
I decided to install a stereo. Back in the day (twenty yrs ago wow), I had a 76 cutlass Supreme with 2 Fosgate pros and a Fosgate Power 650… One bad system I swear. Anyways, that was then this is now and is why I have decided to go Fosgate. Although I do realize they are nothing like they used to be (in my opinion).
I went a little wild and bought a whole bunch of equipment. Here are some of the things I will be installing: 2 2 ohm Pioneer Premier TS-W3002D2 3000 watt , 1 Power 8” and a stealth jack box, 4 amps (2 P1000-bd & 1 P400-4 & 1 P200-2), 2 Power 5x7 for the front , and 2 Infinity Reference 5x7 for the rear (because of the directional tweet to bring the stage higher. I would like my riders to enjoy full sound level as well).
I also purchased 1/0 power and ground with nice gold plated distribution blocks and connectors. I have 100 ft of sound dampening material and nice rollers to apply. A buddy of mine works at the Arnold Air Base designing things. He gave me a heavy duty 500 Farad Cap that can be untaped and put in any shape I need.
I also decided to keep the factory head unit and NAV. I purchased (by accident) A JL Audio Summing device thinking it was the CL441DP. So next I purchased the CL441DP. Now I am unsure if I need the summing device. The signal is phased through front, rear, and woofer. Is it Full Range from the head unit?
I haven’t tapped into the head unit yet. I did run a PAC from under the driver seat (amp) when I ran the stealth 8 and 200-2 Fosgate amp.
Well, that is about everything I can think of. I have been looking at this equipment for a couple months. I have been apprehensive about how to start. I believe the power wire will be first. I was thinking about running it under the chassis (outside) and attaching it to the frame away from any heat. I need to check and see if there is a hole under the spare. UPDATE: there is a hole under the spare but I ran the wire inside anyway.
Anyways, as you can see, I have a lot of stuff to do. I just wanted to share my build and urge anyone to comment if there are any suggestions. I appreciate your time. I will post the steps later. Thank you, tippythehippy

 

[SL33P3RMS3]

WTFBBQ... all i have to say... i couldnt stop laughing after the 500 farad cap....

fist off... put the subs on 1 amp as your going to find it nearly impossible to mesh the 2... the ammount of amps your talking is redonkulous.. and second, you amp either of those interiors you'll come out with fail ..... argggg im going to bed

 

[gtlaw]

stereo makes me LOL

 

[TippytheHippy]

Cant put the subs on one amp because the subs are 2ohms. It would blow the amp. I should have purchased 4ohm but I didnt, so thats the way it is. The 500 farad cap was givin to me from a friend who builds them for the Army Hummers...free=I use. What did you mean by amp those interiors? Couldn't understand you?

WTFBBQ... all i have to say... i couldnt stop laughing after the 500 farad cap....

fist off... put the subs on 1 amp as your going to find it nearly impossible to mesh the 2... the ammount of amps your talking is redonkulous.. and second, you amp either of those interiors you'll come out with fail ..... argggg im going to bed

 

[TippytheHippy]

I have built several systems with two amps. One for each 12. It works fine. Check out evilnixxxon Protege5 on CarDomain and you will see what I did. Of course eventually I went to one Memphis Belle amp for both. The only concern I have is that I will probably blow the subs....but that is ok because I am planning to purchase the new Pioneer Pros.

 

[79535]

I am not entirely sure on your car audio background... There are a few issues I see in your plan.

The sub amps you purchased are 1 ohm stable. You could wire your P2's in parallel to a one ohm load and one P1000-bd would provide 1000W RMS according to the rockford website. This is actually over twice the recommended power for the P2's (250W RMS per subwoofer).

If I understand your initial thread correctly, you are planning on running two P2 12's and an 8" subwoofer? I wouldn't recommend this. You will have some sound wave interference and cancellation issues and it could become a nightmare trying to get the correct final phasing for you bass. If you are looking to get better midbass, ditch the 8" and power 5x7's and invest in a decent component set and sound deaden the hell out of your front doors. I currently have a set of 6.5" components in my front doors with no issues.

I also don't understand why you want to raise your rear sound stage. Generally anyone who wants any SQ will run a decent component set up from in order to raise the front sound stage and (if they want rear fill) will run a set of coaxial speakers in the back.

A 500F cap is an absolute waste for this system. You should have 1F per 1000W of power in your system. That is all you need and I imagine a 500F cap would weigh a considerable amount and take up a lot of room, not to mention if it were to ever discharge, would kill your charging system.

If you are planning on retaining your factory head unit, you will want some form of signal summing. Rockford provides the 360 (since they seem to be your company of choice). Since you already purchased your JL cleansweep, you should be in good shape as it is a great system. A friend of mine was running a cleansweep before upgrading his headunit, and it worked great once he figured it out.

I'm not trying to hate and perhaps I don't see your plan or understand you clearly, but that is just my two cents.

 

[TippytheHippy]

I am not entirely sure on your car audio background... There are a few issues I see in your plan.

The sub amps you purchased are 1 ohm stable. You could wire your P2's in parallel to a one ohm load and one P1000-bd would provide 1000W RMS according to the rockford website. This is actually over twice the recommended power for the P2's (250W RMS per subwoofer).

If I understand your initial thread correctly, you are planning on running two P2 12's and an 8" subwoofer? I wouldn't recommend this. You will have some sound wave interference and cancellation issues and it could become a nightmare trying to get the correct final phasing for you bass. If you are looking to get better midbass, ditch the 8" and power 5x7's and invest in a decent component set and sound deaden the hell out of your front doors. I currently have a set of 6.5" components in my front doors with no issues.

I also don't understand why you want to raise your rear sound stage. Generally anyone who wants any SQ will run a decent component set up from in order to raise the front sound stage and (if they want rear fill) will run a set of coaxial speakers in the back.

A 500F cap is an absolute waste for this system. You should have 1F per 1000W of power in your system. That is all you need and I imagine a 500F cap would weigh a considerable amount and take up a lot of room, not to mention if it were to ever discharge, would kill your charging system.

If you are planning on retaining your factory head unit, you will want some form of signal summing. Rockford provides the 360 (since they seem to be your company of choice). Since you already purchased your JL cleansweep, you should be in good shape as it is a great system. A friend of mine was running a cleansweep before upgrading his headunit, and it worked great once he figured it out.

I'm not trying to hate and perhaps I don't see your plan or understand you clearly, but that is just my two cents.

You are correct the amps are 1 ohm stable. I ditched the P2 plan and bought two 2 ohm Pioneer Premier TS-W3002D2 3000 watt shouldnt worry about blowing them now at1 ohm wire parrallel (also keep in mind every connection is heat shrinked or hot glued, which is a trick I have found that works great)
Well, here is the final setup: I took the factory sub out and made a shelf for the Cleansweep and its Summing device (I have both units). Next, I tapped the in going wires into the factory amp and ran them under the airbag control module under the center console. I daisy chained the remote from the summing to the Cleansweep and ran a remote to the back with the 1/0 power that was run through the firewall. I 1/0 grounded the frame and battery under the hood. I also upgraded the charging wire from the alternator to the battery to 1/0 as well. I have the smallest wafer fuse (100amp) within 18 inches of the battery constant from the alternator. I have a 180 amp relay (also only 8 inches from the battery) going from my battery power to my rear distribution block. I have shielded all power from RCAs and run dynamat completely through the floor. I have a seperate set of RCAs for the eight running the 200watt amp that is connected to the OEM woofer wires. I decided to not include the RCA for the eight in the Cleansweep because i didnt want to split the signal more than one time. It is connected to a LOC of its own. The two sets of RCAs coming from the cleansweep are run to the back and only the rear will be split. The 1000 watt amps have inputs to connect them together without splitting the RCAs again. So I will only have one split (the rear) One for the subs and one for the rear channel of my four channel amp. I havent connected the CAP yet. Still thinking about what you said and yet trying not to buy another CAP. I was going to cut the styro donut under the spare and take a PIE wedged piece out to accomodate the CAP. Good idea or Bad? BTW, I do know quite a bit about wiring been doing it since I was 12. I do need some clarification for sound wave interference and cancellation issues. Would you please elaborate?
thanks a lot for your input and NO I didnt think you were being smart.

 

[TippytheHippy]

stereo makes me LOL

Mirror reflections as well?

 

[79535]

I have heard (and witnessed) issues in some setups where wave cancellation occurs.
As we know, sound travels in a wave. When you get one wave with a negative amplitude and one wave with a positive amplitude meeting in the same location, you end up with a final amplitude of 0. This basically means that you can have issues where one speaker can make another speaker useless at some frequencies in a certain location. As frequency changes, wavelength changes which can cause wave cancellations to dissappear/appear or move. This is one reason why people have to reverse the polarity of their speakers/tweeters. This effective changes the phase to 180 degrees of the original (or makes a wave at a certain frequency at a certain distance change from a negative amplitude to a positive amplitude or vise versa.

Borrowed from www.podcomplex.com.

I found this picture which will be easy to understand than my rant.

It sounds like you will have one heck of a system.

 

[TippytheHippy]

Smoke, you sound like a pretty intelligent fellow. Thank you for your time. I always appreciate good input.

 

[79535]

Any time. My issue is that I don't know when to stop

 

[TippytheHippy]

Sounds like you and I suffer from the same disease brother...the same disease (iagree)

 

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

My major concern here is that this system is going to completely overwhelm the stock electrical system. Forget a cap. You need to consider a place to install a gel type deep cycle battery with an isolator and get in the habit of driving with the rpms up and the stereo off for a little while every day to make sure the battery is kept topped off.

Edit: I almost forgot. I completely agree with the less is more approach regarding the number of drivers. Much easier to tune the system with fewer. I have had systems in the past with a true sub as well as 8 inch drivers, but the the 8 inchers came in above the sub to provide lower bass (but not subwoofer frequencies). This made it possible to run separates with small mid-bass drivers for amazing musicality.

 

[xJAZx]

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123758145 (naughty)

 

[TippytheHippy]

My major concern here is that this system is going to completely overwhelm the stock electrical system. Forget a cap. You need to consider a place to install a gel type deep cycle battery with an isolator and get in the habit of driving with the rpms up and the stereo off for a little while every day to make sure the battery is kept topped off.

Edit: I almost forgot. I completely agree with the less is more approach regarding the number of drivers. Much easier to tune the system with fewer. I have had systems in the past with a true sub as well as 8 inch drivers, but the the 8 inchers came in above the sub to provide lower bass (but not subwoofer frequencies). This made it possible to run separates with small mid-bass drivers for amazing musicality.

I have been considering a gel type setup as well. Only wonder if they make a very small one??? As far as the 8 goes, I will run it off the rear of the four channel and have it set to only mid level frequency. Think that will work?

 

[79535]

I think it will sound great if you can get her setup properly It is always nice to have a system that has good mid bass response.

 

[TippytheHippy]

I think it will sound great if you can get her setup properly It is always nice to have a system that has good mid bass response.

I was just thinking. If I knew the frequency response I wanted to have, could I not put an old fashioned "coil" on it to only allow a certain sound???50 - 150 Hz +/- 2 dB



Maybe...50-150 HZ +/- 2 db?

 

[79535]

You could use an inductance coil to limit the low end frequencies and you could use a capacitor to limit the high end frequencies.

This may be useful for you:

Band Pass Crossover

Band Pass Filter Calculator

 

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

I have been considering a gel type setup as well. Only wonder if they make a very small one??? As far as the 8 goes, I will run it off the rear of the four channel and have it set to only mid level frequency. Think that will work?

Gel batteries are always smaller than regular batteries. You might be able to put two motorcycle gel batteries in parallel under the mat in the back (I`ll have to look into that myself come spring). That should provide enough support and still be hideable.
Personally I would sell the 8, but if you insist on keeping it, here is what I would do to minimize the speakers interfering with each other and get the best overall sound.
Run the front speakers as low as you dare without overworking them. This will pull the soundstage forward.
Bring in the 12s below whatever you are cutting the fronts off at.
The 8 should be running off the rear signal.
Bring in the 8 at the same frequency as the fronts. You will need to experiment with how high you are going to cut it off and bring in the rear mains to get the best combination of mid-bass reinforcement without muddying up the vocals and losing too much stereo separation.
This will reinforce the mid-bass with minimal muddying due to the speakers playing over each other.
The 12s are running off the subwoofer out from whatever you are using as an electronic crossover and won`t be tied to front or rear.

 

[TippytheHippy]

The 12s are running off the subwoofer out from whatever you are using as an electronic crossover and won`t be tied to front or rear.

Believe it or not...
The JL Audio Summing device sums the front, rear, and sub from the factory and feeds it into the Cleansweep as ONLY two channels (Front and Rear). So, the Cleansweep only has a FRONT and REAR RCA output to the subs. I have no earthly idea why they did NOT include a SUB Channel. So, I am splitting the rear for the 12s. The 8 is running off the factory sub LOC that I tapped.