About MSP boost and engine
- Thread starter Az3ar
- Start date
xelderx said:
its amazing how a K03 turbo can hold up to 20psi and a turbo like T25 that is BB cant do more than 16 psi(even if it did it will heat soak it self) I know that the turbo is not top of the line but what about the engine thats what i am trying to figure out. I want to know the exact cause behind not boosting up to 16~20 psi.
boo ya speed
Member
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- 03 msp
the t25 holds more than 16 psi where did you get that idea?
CrackedOutMSP
Member
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- 03 MSP #1129
Just buy an EVO or STI
True the ko3s can boost 22 psi but what kind of horsepower does it make with that. I think APR chip at 22 psi will put out like 220 at the crank. The MSP will make 220 with about 12 psi so it isn't as bad as it first looks. Check out this dyno chart at 16 psi http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7717
Lots of other mods but big numbers for what looks lot not much boost
Lots of other mods but big numbers for what looks lot not much boost
Az3ar said:
Hypnotized
Member
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- 03.5 MS Protege-Gone 07 MS3
He has an EVO and is looking to buy an MSP as a daily driver.CrackedOutMSP said:
Glowmunkey
Member
It'll do it, but it loses efficiency above 16 psi or so... begins adding so much heat that it undermines what you'd gain with the increased pressure.boo ya speed said:
mp5jeff said:
sorry its not exactly 400 whp it about 380~390 maybe more. I have 3071 turbo with full back exhaust. Lets keep the EVO out of the whole pic. I want an MSP tuner to Chime in and tell me wtf is going on. T25 can boost more than 16 psi infact it can hold up to 20psi which what i want. now can MSP handle 20psi stock with proper fuel system? I mean no one here had a blown motor and they got the chance to see and know what kind of rods we are dealing with? or pistons?
thanks
I mean guys I do understand and truly believe that boost and rasing the boost is not the answer all the time. but 12 psi is very very low for stock turbo car. I still cant imagine that Mazda would create such a nice great handling fwd car with an engine that cant handle 10 extra psi's. Does any tuner make chip for them? or piggy back?
chillinmcmillan
Member
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- 2005 Premium White Pearl RSX Type-S
please someone find out what is wrong with our crappy ecu and fix it!
DigitalHeadShot
Member
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- 05 EVO "MR", 04 mazda3
Az3ar said:
I mentioned b4 buddy that I had a broken mbc and it spiked 22 then laid around 20 when I first installed it. However I didnt want to leave it on for two reason, one fear of blowing up (being the msp is only my second turbo car next to the evo I lack comfortable knowhow in tuneing turbos) and two it blew my intercooler pipes off the second time I tried to gun it. *oh and well because the mbc was broken lol*
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DigitalHeadShot
Member
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- 05 EVO "MR", 04 mazda3
Az3ar said:
other than mpnick selling the mpituner and corksport with the unichip Im not sure about the others. From what I hear the mpi gives you control where the unichip doesnot.
MPI is probably the best piggy-back unit for pushing the MSP right now. The stock system runs out of fuel for lots of boost. With the MPI you can add an extra injector(s) and get enough fuel. The problem is the rods are rumored to be good only to about 250 h.p. There are forged rods and pistons avaliable. The crank is supposed to be strong from the factory. Higher compression in the MSP also makes dentonation come on sooner than some cars but, makes the low end livable. The combination of small turbo and high compression makes boost come on very low in the RPM's. The stock computer does not monitor very good for knock (if at all) so an add on like the J.S. knockguard would also be needed to run lots of boost. The MSP was built like a budget tuner car. It has bolt-ons from Mazda but they didn't change anything inside the engine from the regular Protege. Some of us were running only 5.5 psi of boost from the factory. If you ran 20 psi you would be almost upping the boost 4X what the factory set it at. Not many cars can take that kind of punishment!!!!
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- Hemi Ram, 71 Plymth Scamp, 71 Plymth Duster 340, 69 Dart 340/4sp
I run 13.5's @ over 104mph. I still have the stock turbo, intercooler, plastic pipes, intake and airbox, engine...etc. I don't run a "piggy back" system, and I don't run over 13psi. I have run the car several times at 18 psi, but frankly at that pressure I think a hair dryer would be more efficent. This could be blamed by the stock intercooler having a 3psi pressure drop let alone how much pressure is lost due to the plastic pipes expanding. I use a simple plan......I tweak stock parts until I determine that a better component must be made.
I have spent countless hours getting the car to run comfortably at 12psi without detonation but on a cold night I can still feel it at the end of 4th. gear (above 6k). I have had every sensor out of the car trying to get them to trick the ecu to do what I want.
As it stands I only get 2.2-2.4 60' times and still run 13.5's, if a better driver drove this car it would be in the low 13's maybe a high 12 on a good day.
My personal opinion on why these motors melt down is because people don't pay attention to what THEIR car is doing, only what someone else got their car to do. Every car is different and every car will need special attention to its own things. I am in full understanding that my engine will blow eventually (may be tommorow for all I know). But I also know I perform amazing maintanace and perform a compression test and cleaning of spark plugs every three weeks. At that time I use a bore scope to check the condition of cylinder walls and piston tops. I know I have some severe scoring on cyl. 3 wall and also have had some pit marks on #4 piston that have been there since before I "upped the boost."
I hate when people say no one pushes the limits of these cars....you can be smart about pushing the limits.
oh and you guys ain't seen nothing yet. lol
I have spent countless hours getting the car to run comfortably at 12psi without detonation but on a cold night I can still feel it at the end of 4th. gear (above 6k). I have had every sensor out of the car trying to get them to trick the ecu to do what I want.
As it stands I only get 2.2-2.4 60' times and still run 13.5's, if a better driver drove this car it would be in the low 13's maybe a high 12 on a good day.
My personal opinion on why these motors melt down is because people don't pay attention to what THEIR car is doing, only what someone else got their car to do. Every car is different and every car will need special attention to its own things. I am in full understanding that my engine will blow eventually (may be tommorow for all I know). But I also know I perform amazing maintanace and perform a compression test and cleaning of spark plugs every three weeks. At that time I use a bore scope to check the condition of cylinder walls and piston tops. I know I have some severe scoring on cyl. 3 wall and also have had some pit marks on #4 piston that have been there since before I "upped the boost."
I hate when people say no one pushes the limits of these cars....you can be smart about pushing the limits.
oh and you guys ain't seen nothing yet. lol
Yes and don't get all hung up on the 12 psi mark. That was just a "safe" number that a bunch of tuner guys mentioned way long ago and it seems to have stuck.
And I've only read a few threads on people that have blown their engine and most of them that I remember were people doing funky stuff in 5th gear. But I dont read every post on the forum.
And I remember several threads talking about the T25 having a max of 16psi. Not that the turbo cannot produce higher but that it no longer has the same effeciency. I forget who it was but I remember people liking it at 16 more than 18 and more. How far did kwiski go? I forget. But it seems to loose its usefullness at around 16 psi was the concensus.
And I've only read a few threads on people that have blown their engine and most of them that I remember were people doing funky stuff in 5th gear. But I dont read every post on the forum.
And I remember several threads talking about the T25 having a max of 16psi. Not that the turbo cannot produce higher but that it no longer has the same effeciency. I forget who it was but I remember people liking it at 16 more than 18 and more. How far did kwiski go? I forget. But it seems to loose its usefullness at around 16 psi was the concensus.
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- Hemi Ram, 71 Plymth Scamp, 71 Plymth Duster 340, 69 Dart 340/4sp
I have run @ pretty much all boost levels.....My setup likes 13psi. Other cars may like different psi's...who knows until you try it on your car, lol.
The answer to your question is timing...it is too far advanced to crank up the boost, along with the fact that it is tuned so poorly from the factory.
and as far as discreetspeed, he pushed the limits of the car for a year racing on a regular basis at 15psi and his motor is gone now...he is rebuilding it as we speak
if you tune the car it would probably be alot better at taking higher boost, but the fact is that mazda did use the same internals that you find on a stock protege and they will not hold up to contant punishment forever....
and as far as discreetspeed, he pushed the limits of the car for a year racing on a regular basis at 15psi and his motor is gone now...he is rebuilding it as we speak
if you tune the car it would probably be alot better at taking higher boost, but the fact is that mazda did use the same internals that you find on a stock protege and they will not hold up to contant punishment forever....
Glowmunkey
Member
Yeah, that's exactly what I said... Joe (Kwiktsi) went to 18 psi, but that was on race gas.EvilMSP said:
