300hp-high compression > low compression?
- Thread starter jeffmsp
- Start date
wow,this is interesting.
if you want reliable power,you need to either keep stock compression or lower.you won't be able to keep combustion temps under 2500 with out running nitro-methane.and anything above that temp knocks become completely un-controlable.
just go to 8.5 to one get a t-28 wheel put into your t-25.
and if you want 300chp you better think about some thing for engine manedgement,DSM's won't cut it for this,it makes the car go into open loop all the time,witch causes it to ignore sensors,so it wouldn't know if it were 150deg or -100deg out side.
AF would be impossible to keep acurate,and timming would stay steady(BOOM,BOOM).
good luke with the AWD,it's going to be fun,and a real PAIN IN THE ASS!
if you want reliable power,you need to either keep stock compression or lower.you won't be able to keep combustion temps under 2500 with out running nitro-methane.and anything above that temp knocks become completely un-controlable.
just go to 8.5 to one get a t-28 wheel put into your t-25.
and if you want 300chp you better think about some thing for engine manedgement,DSM's won't cut it for this,it makes the car go into open loop all the time,witch causes it to ignore sensors,so it wouldn't know if it were 150deg or -100deg out side.
AF would be impossible to keep acurate,and timming would stay steady(BOOM,BOOM).
good luke with the AWD,it's going to be fun,and a real PAIN IN THE ASS!
i got a reply about the rods. i should know by monday, im second in line.
Ive almost got the GTX AWD tranny from a guy in the US. $150 US Plus shipping from a guy off of the old erdt site. We checked out the tranny I was originally planning on using at my friends shop and it looks like crap, i doubt it would even shift. I havent seen any pics of the gtx awd tranny from this guy from the escort board, but ive known him for awhile now through the net and bought and sold stuff several times with him, so im hoping it will be as good as he says it is. It has been sitting in his garage ever since he put the gtx motor into his escort GT. Said the motor looked brand new, perfect compression etc. and the trans should be no different. I will be using the stock clutch since it is designed to slip to prevent destroying the transmission. Im pretty sure that as long as I dont hit gears all day it should hold together, especially since most people with gtxs run around 230hp (on stock everything + mbc) and the trans lasts ok (not good, but it can work, just dont launch hard or at all lol) I will look into beefing up the trans later.
i think i am going to start off with stock pistons, compression and these rods powered by dsms a/f controller. Hopefully I will hit 250hp. I wanted more off the bat but the AWD is going to be financial suicide. then in the spring dsm said something about releasing a timing controller to go with his afc, I will see how that looks and if i can hit 300+with it, if not ill sell the a/f controller and get a standalone.
Ive almost got the GTX AWD tranny from a guy in the US. $150 US Plus shipping from a guy off of the old erdt site. We checked out the tranny I was originally planning on using at my friends shop and it looks like crap, i doubt it would even shift. I havent seen any pics of the gtx awd tranny from this guy from the escort board, but ive known him for awhile now through the net and bought and sold stuff several times with him, so im hoping it will be as good as he says it is. It has been sitting in his garage ever since he put the gtx motor into his escort GT. Said the motor looked brand new, perfect compression etc. and the trans should be no different. I will be using the stock clutch since it is designed to slip to prevent destroying the transmission. Im pretty sure that as long as I dont hit gears all day it should hold together, especially since most people with gtxs run around 230hp (on stock everything + mbc) and the trans lasts ok (not good, but it can work, just dont launch hard or at all lol) I will look into beefing up the trans later.
i think i am going to start off with stock pistons, compression and these rods powered by dsms a/f controller. Hopefully I will hit 250hp. I wanted more off the bat but the AWD is going to be financial suicide. then in the spring dsm said something about releasing a timing controller to go with his afc, I will see how that looks and if i can hit 300+with it, if not ill sell the a/f controller and get a standalone.
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flat_black
Member
Hmm... The GTX tranny is gonna barf with too much power, keep in mind. =/ I hear they're pretty damn fragile, and they were put in cars that make quite a bit less power and, most importantly, torque than a built-up MSP. You're going to want custom jobs for the rear axles, probably get the gears peened, at very least, and a custom driveshaft made up. The rear diff is probably similar in style to a Miata or some other RWD Mazda vehicle, so maybe look into what you can stuff into the casing/ off of the driveshaft. FC3S RX-7's have a big, beefy 8.5" rear end, so that might be a good option, too, assuming you can shift parts around. I think the key here is to get the rear ratio proper to work with the car, and getting a tranny that has an output for the rear. From there, it's all going to be custom in-between, most likely, but good luck, and have fun with it. =) I bet it'll be awesome when you get it done!
Oh, also... Upgrade your brakes after that; The extra weight and AWD does show quite a bit of extra wear-and-tear on the brakes and rotors. Maybe try and switch the rears to ventilated disks, using RX7 rear calipers or somesuch... Anyway, this is all just spectulation on my behalf, as I've never done it, obviously, but if you need any help, ask, and I'll certainly try and help. =)
Oh, also... Upgrade your brakes after that; The extra weight and AWD does show quite a bit of extra wear-and-tear on the brakes and rotors. Maybe try and switch the rears to ventilated disks, using RX7 rear calipers or somesuch... Anyway, this is all just spectulation on my behalf, as I've never done it, obviously, but if you need any help, ask, and I'll certainly try and help. =)
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- MP5T / 944
Sounds way to complicated..
well after reading more about swaps than i have in a whole semester of school, i think i am doing this way wrong.rwd is looking like a piece of cake, there is half the s*** to worry about and a rx-7 6 speed would be a nice building block, but awd is well awd....hmmm...what would you guys do? awd or rwd? the rwd would cost about half the amount that i could then put into the motor........god bless credit lines and good paychecks. I am going in for an interview at Mazda head office here in canada soon for my joint position with my current job, maybe ill get em to sponsor my car too hehehe
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rocketspeed
Member
- :
- 03.5 Mazdaspeed Protege, Titanium Gray
I'd think the easiest way to go on the AWD is with JDM parts - aren't there AWD Familias?
flat_black
Member
Screw the AWD. Go RWD. If you have the funds, just screw it all and mount the engine in the rear. =) But that's perhaps a bit much. 
well, i checked into it a bit more.
http://car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi
an rx-7 tranny will be about $400US plus shipping, but im sure i can find one locally for around $400 cdn, just gotta find it. Im gonna pick up the gtx tranny because if i dont use it, i always wanted to make a awd escort gt as a winter car when im older and have money to do 2 cars at once so we will see what happens.
http://car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi
an rx-7 tranny will be about $400US plus shipping, but im sure i can find one locally for around $400 cdn, just gotta find it. Im gonna pick up the gtx tranny because if i dont use it, i always wanted to make a awd escort gt as a winter car when im older and have money to do 2 cars at once so we will see what happens.
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- Hemi Ram, 71 Plymth Scamp, 71 Plymth Duster 340, 69 Dart 340/4sp
How are you going to mount a rx-7 tranny in a protege? Are you going to swing the engine around? Man if I was gonna convert to rwd. I would think it would be a heck of alot easier to make it an automatic, then you won't have to worry about shifter linkage or clutch linkage. Of course it won't be as much fun. Automatic with a straight rear axle would be the "easiest".
rocketspeed
Member
- :
- 03.5 Mazdaspeed Protege, Titanium Gray
It would be easier to just put a whole RX7 powertrain in vs. just the tranny and some half-assed RWD setup, I think it would be a pain to get the RX-7 tranny to bolt up and you'd still need to turn the engine, fabricate a driveshaft, get some kind of rear end, rework the rear suspension.........
This would be crazy hard, I think.
This would be crazy hard, I think.
Honestly I think it is not worth it. If it's your life desire to build an AWD protege then search around for something with a blown motor or a salvage title. It's not worth ruining a perfectly good MSP. When you do something like an AWD setup in a car never inteded to havea transfer case, drivesaft and rear axel, you're going to have to toy with the structure and balance of the car, and if you really don't know what you're doing then you're potentially just building yourself a coffin. As far as the plate, I have seen a spec V with a SR20 GTR motor and the stock 6 speed trans from the spec. So it is possible but you're going ot have to do alot mor reaserch than looking up prices. Maybe you could swap the entire motor and drivetrain from a GTX into a protege. The mounts might just drop in, or if not you can weld in the proper locations. There are so many variables it's pathetic. If it is indeed possible, then I hope you pull it off. If you are going to do it I can give you one thing that will help. Run a fuel cell and then without a gas tank and maybe some cutting and rewelding with some sheet metal you may have room for a diff.
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- MP5T / 944
Yup!
Seems like way to much of a hassle. You're setting yourself up for some major disappointment if this doesn't work out as planned. I think you'll be better off selling the msp and getting something that came awd from the factory ie: wrx, A4, gsx etc.
I think its cool that people look to do different things like this. The only problems are that 1)you have to have a suitcase full of money to do this 2)you better know EVERYTHING there is to know about cars, from suspension to engine to transmission. You can't rely on someone else, because then you would need two suitcases full of money. 
Good luck if you decide to try it tho.
Good luck if you decide to try it tho.
