2017 Mazda CX-5 engine outputs differ by what country you reside in

[Xeler8ing]

Just wanted to show the discrepancies in power and torque outputs for various countries around the world.

Note: This is a limited snapshot of countries and I have converted the USA & Canada to KW & NM

Australia:

USA: (~139KW ~251NM)

Canada: (2.0L ~116KW, ~203NM, 2.5L ~139KW ~251NM)

Japan:

South Africa:

If you want the most powerful 2.5L, South Africa gets it 143KW 257NM

Would be nice if all countries got the same outputs (maximum). Yes I know there are factors such as fuel octane etc but still.....

 

[Ziggity]

they target demographics in each country and take into account road taxes, emissions levies, etc and fuel costs.

I'd love the petrol 2.5L, but that would miss the target demographic in the UK and therefore sell far less effectively.

Hardly any UK family cars are 2.5L, or much over 2.0L really.

 

[yrwei52]

Check CX-5 specs in Germany. They had 5 more hp (189) than ours (US, 184) on 2.5L SA-G for 1st-gen CX-5.

 

[mazdadude]

Most of it depends on the octane rating of the fuel available in each country.

Run the US motor on German fuel, and you will achieve the higher HP.

There was a tested increase of between 4-6hp difference on the skyactiv 2.0L motor between grades 87 and 93 octane.

South Africa runs 91-95, and German fuel runs from 95-100 octane...(eek2)

 

[craigo]

Check CX-5 specs in Germany. They had 5 more hp (189) than ours (US, 184) on 2.5L SA-G for 1st-gen CX-5.

US ran slightly lower compression (13:1 instead of 14:1) to better match octane of typical unleaded gas in the US

 

[craigo]

they target demographics in each country and take into account road taxes, emissions levies, etc and fuel costs.

I'd love the petrol 2.5L, but that would miss the target demographic in the UK and therefore sell far less effectively.

Hardly any UK family cars are 2.5L, or much over 2.0L really.

Is this because the 2.5L puts it in a higher emissions tax bracket than the 2.0? All other things being equal...

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

 

[Guest2019C20]

I saw mention from (I think) a mazda rep, that basically, USA has crappy gas. 2.5 does run a lower CR. This affects MPG probably more than ultimate power, since most driving is done at small throttle openings, and a higher CR means a higher expansion ratio, means you get more BTU used to drive the piston, and not ejected as waste heat in the exhaust system.

 

[Xeler8ing]

they target demographics in each country and take into account road taxes, emissions levies, etc and fuel costs.

I'd love the petrol 2.5L, but that would miss the target demographic in the UK and therefore sell far less effectively.

Hardly any UK family cars are 2.5L, or much over 2.0L really.

Yes but given the difference between lowest output and highest is 8KW, road taxes/levies should not influence it that much (scratch)

Most of it depends on the octane rating of the fuel available in each country.

Run the US motor on German fuel, and you will achieve the higher HP.

There was a tested increase of between 4-6hp difference on the skyactiv 2.0L motor between grades 87 and 93 octane.

South Africa runs 91-95, and German fuel runs from 95-100 octane...(eek2)

My guess is it is indeed related to fuel octane but... our highest octane here in Oz is 98 and the 2.5L engine has 140KW and South Africa has 91-95 yet they get 143KW? What about torque? 251NM here, 257NM South Africa?

Hmmm... (uhm)

 

[yrwei52]

Most of it depends on the octane rating of the fuel available in each country.

Run the US motor on German fuel, and you will achieve the higher HP.

There was a tested increase of between 4-6hp difference on the skyactiv 2.0L motor between grades 87 and 93 octane.

South Africa runs 91-95, and German fuel runs from 95-100 octane...(eek2)

Different octane numbers in different regions may have some effect on engine output, but the engine software has to support the octane change too. In Japan Mazda offers 2 different engine outputs from the same SkyActiv-G 2.5L for FWD and AWD. Both versions have 13:1 compression ratio, and use the same Japanese gas. 2.5L in FWD it has 190 PS (187 hp) / 251 Nm (185 ft-lb) but in AWD it has 184 PS (181 hp) / 245 Nm (181 ft-lb). (whistle)

In US most people believe the maximum horsepower rating from US-spec SA-G's won't increase with the gasoline higher than 87 AKI octane rating ("Regular" gas) unless you modify the software.

As far as octane ratings on gasoline, remember only the US、Canada、and Brazil use Anti-Knock Index (AKI) or (R+M)/2. Everywhere else in the world use Research Octane Number (RON).

So in Germany their octane numbers on gasoline are not much higher than us. 95~100 RON octanes are approximately equivalent to the US 90~94 AKI octanes. In Texas our "Premium" has 93 AKI. Germany does have "Regular" 91 RON (87 AKI) gasoline but it's not popular hence it's more expensive than "Super" 95 RON (90 AKI) due to low productions.

 

[craigo]

Yes but given the difference between lowest output and highest is 8KW, road taxes/levies should not influence it that much (scratch)



My guess is it is indeed related to fuel octane but... our highest octane here in Oz is 98 and the 2.5L engine has 140KW and South Africa has 91-95 yet they get 143KW? What about torque? 251NM here, 257NM South Africa?

Hmmm... (uhm)

I'm thinking all these countries have slightly different standards of conducting tests and this results in these minor moves. The automakers outsource this testing to labs that specialize in this once a vehicle is about to reach production.

 

[Xeler8ing]

Different octane numbers in different regions may have some effect on engine output, but the engine software has to support the octane change too. In Japan Mazda offers 2 different engine outputs from the same SkyActiv-G 2.5L for FWD and AWD. Both versions have 13:1 compression ratio, and use the same Japanese gas. 2.5L in FWD it has 190 PS (187 hp) / 251 Nm (185 ft-lb) but in AWD it has 184 PS (181 hp) / 245 Nm (181 ft-lb). (whistle)

In US most people believe the maximum horsepower rating from US-spec SA-G's won't increase with the gasoline higher than 87 AKI octane rating ("Regular" gas) unless you modify the software.

As far as octane ratings on gasoline, remember only the US、Canada、and Brazil use Anti-Knock Index (AKI) or (R+M)/2. Everywhere else in the world use Research Octane Number (RON).

So in Germany their octane numbers on gasoline are not much higher than us. 95~100 RON octanes are approximately equivalent to the US 90~94 AKI octanes. In Texas our "Premium" has 93 AKI. Germany does have "Regular" 91 RON (87 AKI) gasoline but it's not popular hence it's more expensive than "Super" 95 RON (90 AKI) due to low productions.

I'm thinking all these countries have slightly different standards of conducting tests and this results in these minor moves. The automakers outsource this testing to labs that specialize in this once a vehicle is about to reach production.

So fuel octane and engine software are the main culprits to the differences in power & torque outputs. Not to mention testing regimes (didn't think country standards would affect this that much)

Wonder if the people can feel any differences between the 143KW 257NM South African and say 140KW 251NM Aussie CX-5......

 

[yrwei52]

US ran slightly lower compression (13:1 instead of 14:1) to better match octane of typical unleaded gas in the US

For SA-G 2.0L there was a version with 14:1 compression ratio but Mazda apparently pulled back and now we only see 13:1 CR in 2nd-gen CX-5. For SA-G 2.5L there has never been a version with 14:1 CR. Even the German one which has 189 hp in 1st-gen CX-5 has 13:1 CR. No, compression ratio definitely has nothing to do with the variance of maximum engine output for 2nd-gen CX-5's - they all are 13:1 now!

Now who can explain the different hp's between FWD and AWD on SA-G 2.5L in Japan?

 

[Xeler8ing]

For SA-G 2.0L there was a version with 14:1 compression ratio but Mazda apparently pulled back and now we only see 13:1 CR in 2nd-gen CX-5. For SA-G 2.5L there has never been a version with 14:1 CR. Even the German one which has 189 hp in 1st-gen CX-5 has 13:1 CR. No, compression ratio definitely has nothing to do with the variance of maximum engine output for 2nd-gen CX-5's - they all are 13:1 now!

Now who can explain the different hp's between FWD and AWD on SA-G 2.5L in Japan?

Limit stresses on the engine (scratch)

I am aware Japan has more taxes on vehicles based on physical size, type and possibly engine capacity. Maybe its related to that (scratch)

 

[mazdadude]

"...the US、Canada、and Brazil use Anti-Knock Index (AKI) or (R+M)/2. Everywhere else in the world use Research Octane Number (RON). "

Thanks yrwei52

That is correct...My mistake ....I forgot about the octane scale differences...(bang)

 

[xtrailman]

All the UK engines are still 14.1 CR

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

A lot of guys just get the ecu retuned to because the engine is the same, but taxes and other factors very based on engine output/displacement around the world. I.e the 150hp diesel is the same as the 175... Asian markets with the 120hp skyg get retunes for 160hp output and so on

 

[Ziggity]

Is a remap (like versatune?) detectable by the dealer? Can they tell 150 vs 175? Or even that the ecu (?) was remapped?

 

[Xeler8ing]

A lot of guys just get the ecu retuned to because the engine is the same, but taxes and other factors very based on engine output/displacement around the world. I.e the 150hp diesel is the same as the 175... Asian markets with the 120hp skyg get retunes for 160hp output and so on

Fuel quality I get but tax differences is just a joke considering difference between lowest KW and highest KW for 2.5L is 8KW