2013 CX-5 Stuttering, Clicking, Losing Power

[aaacx5]

Greetings all,

My girlfriend had a bizarre experience in the Mazda CX5 today -- she was driving and then she says the car started losing power, making clicking noises, and a bunch of the dash lights started coming on. She was able to make it home but it was a slow process and she says the car was stopping and lurching constantly. On the dash the Traction Control light is on and the Power Steering Light is on.

I ordered an OBD reader and got FORscan and tried to log some data to see if anyone can help me figure out what is going on and how bad this is going to hurt my wallet. Hopefully these logs help at all (totally new to FORscan). Please let me know if y'all have any ideas on what could be causing the issue(s). Thank you for your help.

Cheers

 

[edmaz]

Take the vehicle to a parts store and ask them to test the battery and alternator.

 

[yrwei52]

Greetings all,

My girlfriend had a bizarre experience in the Mazda CX5 today -- she was driving and then she says the car started losing power, making clicking noises, and a bunch of the dash lights started coming on. She was able to make it home but it was a slow process and she says the car was stopping and lurching constantly. On the dash the Traction Control light is on and the Power Steering Light is on.

I ordered an OBD reader and got FORscan and tried to log some data to see if anyone can help me figure out what is going on and how bad this is going to hurt my wallet. Hopefully these logs help at all (totally new to FORscan). Please let me know if y'all have any ideas on what could be causing the issue(s). Thank you for your help.

Cheers

Since the CEL is on, go for the easy thing first. Read the error codes which caused the CEL. You then can diagnose the problems based on error codes. You can remove the battery and take it to auto parts store for a load test like edmaz suggested. In the mean time you give the car enough time to reset the system.

Saw code “U0442” and you can follow the steps and try to trace the culprit of the prblem:

U0442 - Invalid Data Received From ECM/PCM 'B'

Other than “U0442”, did you see any other error codes?

 

[edmaz]

...
Other than “U0442”, did you see any other error codes?

Actually that's already been answered by the first attachment posted by the OP, That attachment is freeze frame data (some of the most helpful I've ever seen), and shows a few codes sequentially being set immediately as the vehicle was starting up. And it's the 'control module voltage' parameter which reflects the battery voltage coming back up, after it was taken down by the starter motor.

And although that voltage hit from the starter motor is of course a normal and expected event, the battery definitely appears (from the FF data) to not have bounced back fast enough to be able to supply the required higher voltage where and when it's needed. It's clear from the data that the voltage is coming back up, but probably not fast enough. The alternator is also (probably) starting to recharge as well, but again likely not fast enough for the total electrical draw that's required during those first seconds.

And that would make my first suspect be a tired battery, but of course the other parts of the charging system, such as the big wires could be the culprit as well. Hopefully it's simply an old, worn out battery just as it is most of the time in these cases, and testing the charging system is what I'd be doing if it were mine.

 

[dunhillmc]

It's going to be the battery

 

[yrwei52]

Actually that's already been answered by the first attachment posted by the OP, That attachment is freeze frame data (some of the most helpful I've ever seen), and shows a few codes sequentially being set immediately as the vehicle was starting up. And it's the 'control module voltage' parameter which reflects the battery voltage coming back up, after it was taken down by the starter motor.

And although that voltage hit from the starter motor is of course a normal and expected event, the battery definitely appears (from the FF data) to not have bounced back fast enough to be able to supply the required higher voltage where and when it's needed. It's clear from the data that the voltage is coming back up, but probably not fast enough. The alternator is also (probably) starting to recharge as well, but again likely not fast enough for the total electrical draw that's required during those first seconds.

And that would make my first suspect be a tired battery, but of course the other parts of the charging system, such as the big wires could be the culprit as well. Hopefully it's simply an old, worn out battery just as it is most of the time in these cases, and testing the charging system is what I'd be doing if it were mine.

Thanks for the detailed explanation!

 

[yrwei52]

It's going to be the battery

Battery performance certainly should be checked the first as it’s easy. The reason I suspect there may be something else is because loosing some voltage from battery and charging system while driving is something I believe shouldn’t happen easily if all wirings and connectors are fine. And the problem from OP seems to be happened suddenly while OP’s GF was driving.

 

[aaacx5]

Right, exactly -- my thoughts as well. I'm getting the battery/alternator tested now, but the battery was brand new from the dealership in November, so I reckon something else is going on. After the power is checked, I'll do what I can to look at the wires/cables/connections (though to say I am an amateur would be an understatement). Thanks for all of the advice and insight -- I'll update as I get info.

 

[edmaz]

Right, exactly -- my thoughts as well. I'm getting the battery/alternator tested now, but the battery was brand new from the dealership in November, so I reckon something else is going on. After the power is checked, I'll do what I can to look at the wires/cables/connections (though to say I am an amateur would be an understatement). Thanks for all of the advice and insight -- I'll update as I get info.

A 7 or so month old battery certainly makes it less likely to be the issue (or one of them), however even relatively new batteries can occasionally have a short life. And I agree with yrwei52 that 'something else' is definitely possible here. Symptoms like this could even be caused by a battery/big wire connector not being quite tight enough, and causing sporadic and erratic electrical problems.

Have there been any other problems and/or maintenance done on this vehicle recently? How about electrical mods - any of those?

 

[aaacx5]

Not much else has been done in the way of maintenance/mods. Actually, when we got the car, the backup camera wasn't working -- as in, putting the car in reverse didn't turn off the display or swap to the backup camera. The dealership agreed to fix it and now it works perfectly. To fix it, they said they just needed "a new camera" which I thought was weird because I figured if the camera was broken, the display should still turn off when going into reverse -- am I right about that? Anyway that's the only thing I can think of.

I just got the battery/alternator tested at the parts store and they say the reader says the "voltage regulator" in the alternator failed. Apparently I was getting between 13 and 13.8v and it was jumping around inside that range for the two minutes it was being tested.

The guy says a faulty alternator could explain what happened on the freeway, but I'm confused because I'm driving the car around right now and it seems completely fine. I don't understand how it could go from doing that on the freeway to seeming totally normal now.

 

[yrwei52]

Not much else has been done in the way of maintenance/mods. Actually, when we got the car, the backup camera wasn't working -- as in, putting the car in reverse didn't turn off the display or swap to the backup camera. The dealership agreed to fix it and now it works perfectly. To fix it, they said they just needed "a new camera" which I thought was weird because I figured if the camera was broken, the display should still turn off when going into reverse -- am I right about that? Anyway that's the only thing I can think of.

I just got the battery/alternator tested at the parts store and they say the reader says the "voltage regulator" in the alternator failed. Apparently I was getting between 13 and 13.8v and it was jumping around inside that range for the two minutes it was being tested.

The guy says a faulty alternator could explain what happened on the freeway, but I'm confused because I'm driving the car around right now and it seems completely fine. I don't understand how it could go from doing that on the freeway to seeming totally normal now.

You can go to another parts store checking out the alternator again. If it gets the same result, you should be prepared to have the alternator replaced. You can keep driving until the problem comes up again, and re-check the alternator. I believe you can get the voltage regulator alone and replace it by yourself, or simply get a rebuild alternator and replace it.

 

[edmaz]

....
I just got the battery/alternator tested at the parts store and they say the reader says the "voltage regulator" in the alternator failed. Apparently I was getting between 13 and 13.8v and it was jumping around inside that range for the two minutes it was being tested.....

First off, a disclaimer that I know virtually nothing about what the various alternator testers are capable of, and not capable of ACCURATELY being able to show. So I definitely can't tell you if what their tester indicated is correct or not.

Now that said, I can tell you for certain that 'jumping around', along with 13-13.8V readings is not automatically a problem at all. The reason for that is that virtually all charging systems these days are the 'smart' variety, controlled via PWM signals to the regulator by the ECU, and will be producing a wide variety of different voltage/current over time. And it's entirely possible for the readings to be 'jumping around', based on changing electrical needs.

I also have to say I'm just a bit skeptical of a bad voltage regulator, because the smart charging system also includes a feedback circuit, which tells the ECU a lot about what's going on with the charging requests that it's been making. So if the regulator (or anything else) results in a failure to produce what the ECU has commanded, then I'd expect it to set an OBD trouble code. Now something like a bad rectifier diode causing excessive ripple might very well go undetected by the ECU error checking. (not saying it's your problem, just mentioning it as another possibility).

So what this basically comes down to is exactly what yrwei52 posted about cross checking the result you received from the first parts store. And it would be helpful if you could find out what testing product they were using, so that you can go to another store or shop that has a different brand tool. More than two tests might not be a bad idea either. I'll also mention the possibility of doing a DIY load test using a multimeter, just to have another result. It comes under the heading of redneck testing, but it's been reliable for me in the past, even on the smart charging systems.

 

[cz5gt]

not sure about gen1 cx5 but if I recall on the gen2 Forscan can show PIDs for the alternator to battery voltage and the ECU(PCM) adjusted voltage (for all the electronics and sensors) which is in the range 13-14V and varies depending on the temperature and battery SoC. Usually its around 13,5-13.8V. This allows the voltage to be monitored while the car is running through the obd and Forscan running at the same time. Amperage can also be monitored although it doesnt matter that much in this case.
The other method to check the charging voltage is to probe the battery with multimeter while charging although this has to be at stationary car but runnning engine. One can turn on all the high power consumers like heating rear glass, ac on max, all lights, etc.

As it was mentioned, check all cables especially the negative. check if they are tighly connected as well. First I would check the cables to the battery. Then there are few negative connected to the frame usually one is next to the battery and there is one to the right side of the engine.

 

[CarpeDiem]

I don’t trust a “parts store” monkey to tell me if a modern voltage regulator is faulty. Go to another store (Autozones usually have the correct equipment) and have the battery electronically load tested, and get the actual printout. If the battery tests ok then check out the alternator. If the battery won’t hold voltage under load, that’s your answer.

This is a problem with a great many current vehicles, they have so many computers and sensors that even a slightly low voltage can trigger all kinds of lights, faults and codes. More often than not (but not always) it’s a bad battery. Plus, was the replacement battery exactly what was called for, not just the right size? Too, non-AGM batteries are much more prone to fail in modern computer-controlled vehicles, especially in very hot or cold climates.

 

[yrwei52]

⋯ Plus, was the replacement battery exactly what was called for, not just the right size?

OP said he got his battery from a Mazda dealer last November which should be the Mazda OEM “High-Performance” battery made by Interstate. Been tested once, I believe the battery most likely should be fine.

 

[aaacx5]

I can confirm the battery is the one yrwei52 mentioned by Interstate.

One code that comes on intermittently and then turns off is the camshaft position sensor. I made a post about it and people said the sensors don't typically fail and that it was probably just dirty. The next day I turned on the car and the CEL was gone. Is there any sort of tricky electrical issue that could report camshaft position sensors as failed but be an entirely different issue altogether?

I'm going to check all of the connections as cz5gt suggested and then go to a different parts store to have the test ran again.

This code from the diag "U0442 - Invalid Data Received From ECM/PCM 'B'" could that be indicative of anything particular about this problem?

 

[edmaz]

IMO with so many different types of codes coming and going, my choice would be to stay focused on the charging system, until it's proven guilty or innocent. And it will naturally be of interest what the next round of testing shows.

And I also keep thinking about the DIY load test as well. It's quite an easy test to do, taking just 10 minutes or so, and only requires a multimeter and maybe a helper as well. Will post the details, if you're interested in giving it a try.

 

[CarpeDiem]

…Is there any sort of tricky electrical issue that could report camshaft position sensors as failed but be an entirely different issue altogether?

Yes, this is typical of a bad/low voltage battery.

 

[ruthrj]

Camshaft position sensor being intermittent is interesting. The only time I have experienced my ‘13 CX-5 losing power and making clicking noises was immediately after I had I used an intake valve cleaner. Revving it above 2500 or 3k rpms made a pinging/ticking noise that sounded like shaking a spray paint can. I’m thinking that code is a symptom of electrical system as well though as others have suggested.

 

[aaacx5]

Thank you everyone keeping an eye on this thread -- it is much appreciated.

Went to a different parts store and got the system tested again, similar results and their machine said the same thing: voltage regulator failure. They suggest a new alternator.

Looks like I can get a new one from RockAuto for $185 and the replacement looks pretty straightforward (except some of the weird bolt angles)

Will try replacing that and see what happns/report back!