2010 Camaro SS

[happy and angry]

Because of the IRS. If it was a solid axle and 500 lbs heavier, then the point would be moot. Like I said, it depends on your point of view. You can be impressed with the SLA of the Mustang, or be disappointed with the IRS of the Camaro.

Is there something being lost in translation here? There is no magical formula that says "A car with an independent rear suspension must handle better than a much lighter car with a solid axle."

I am not saying the IRS is fantastically awesome and amazing, simply that this is the design feature that allows a much heavier car to put up the same numbers in a corner. If you were to take the Camaro and chop of 500 lbs, it would handle better than the Mustang. If you were to take the Mustang and slap an IRS setup on it, it would handle better than the Camaro. I only brought this up because you said:

It just proves that throwing a big V8 into a car with a 'modern' chassis performs as well as someone who refines a 'historic' live axle and does just about as good.

The performance of the Mustang versus the Camaro does not prove what you think it proves. The "refined" "historic" live-axle of the Mustang is and always will be a limiting factor in the handling dynamics of the car, and it is only by being a lot lighter than the competition that it is considered competitive in the handling department. This is not illustrating any sort of competitive equivalency between an IRS and a SLA. Quite the opposite.

 

[tunersteve]

Is there something being lost in translation here? There is no magical formula that says "A car with an independent rear suspension must handle better than a much lighter car with a solid axle."

I am not saying the IRS is fantastically awesome and amazing, simply that this is the design feature that allows a much heavier car to put up the same numbers in a corner. If you were to take the Camaro and chop of 500 lbs, it would handle better than the Mustang. If you were to take the Mustang and slap an IRS setup on it, it would handle better than the Camaro. I only brought this up because you said:The performance of the Mustang versus the Camaro does not prove what you think it proves. The "refined" "historic" live-axle of the Mustang is and always will be a limiting factor in the handling dynamics of the car, and it is only by being a lot lighter than the competition that it is considered competitive in the handling department. This is not illustrating any sort of competitive equivalency between an IRS and a SLA. Quite the opposite.

I guess I was addressing the ignorant response that the IRS is inherently better regardless of weight. The truth is, it's not the deciding factor in how well a car handles. You are correct in your points you brought up. The important things to look at are the skidpad and slalom speeds, as they show a more accurate representation of how the car handles as a whole.

 

[mikeyb]

I've owned vehicles with both live SLA and IRS . I prefer the IRS over a SLA. For ride, comfort, and handling the IRS is superior to the SLA in my opinion.

 

[happy and angry]

Word. I try to avoid being ignorant about cars and I think I mostly succeed in being objective about them. Incidentally, reading comparos of these cars has me pretty impressed with the performance of the 2010 Mustang /w Track Pack.

 

[tunersteve]

The Motor Trend comparo is by far the most thorogh in my opinion. They say the Camaro leads the way, with the Mustang right behind, and the Challenger hanging way back.

 

[Rogue]

does anyone else think having the gauges positioned that low to the driver is a bad idea?

 

[MS_Rick]

Hell Ya! Dam that interior looks sooooooo cheap....

 

[mikeyb]

does anyone else think having the gauges positioned that low to the driver is a bad idea?

Its not the first time GM has done this. On the e36 M3 that I drive has the guages that low.

 

[Hughes412]

Because of the IRS. If it was a solid axle and 500 lbs heavier, then the point would be moot. Like I said, it depends on your point of view. You can be impressed with the SLA of the Mustang, or be disappointed with the IRS of the Camaro.

As it stands right now, I've seen a few reviews knock the Camaro for poor steering feel and poor interior quality. Straight line acceleration, on the other hand, is a high point amongst reviews.

I think you are forgetting the biggest difference of the two. Not only is the SS 500lbs more, but it also has over a 100HP more. I am disappointed in the SS numbers. The weight is killing it. But the price tag in saving its ass.

As for the looks, I like both in and out. For those that remember, owned or drove around in the 60's SS you'll feel like your back in the day when things were cool. White T's and blue jeans rocked and there was none of the PC crap to mess up you day at work.

On that note, I would still be up in the air as to which one I'd go for. I like the 370 but not as much and the Dodge or Ford or the Chevy. I want Tourq! So it would be out. I've always liked the Mustang. And with the new engines coming I think it has an advantage. But that Dodge is calling my name, b**** BUY ME!

 

[tunersteve]

I've seen people claim anywhere between 300-500 lbs different amongst the cars. Still a heavy car, which is where they should concentrate on working on for all three.

Why in holy hell do you need 20's on a car though? Especially when they look the same as 18s on the V6?

 

[Mazda3]

does anyone else think having the gauges positioned that low to the driver is a bad idea?

The gauges are there to match the original location of the 69 Camaro. I'm not saying this is a good idea, I'm just saying that's why they are there.

 

[Hughes412]

I've seen people claim anywhere between 300-500 lbs different amongst the cars. Still a heavy car, which is where they should concentrate on working on for all three.

Why in holy hell do you need 20's on a car though? Especially when they look the same as 18s on the V6?

I agree on the wheels, 20in wheels on a car to me is a waist. And for the people ragging on the interrior of the SS I posted this in the BMW thread.

I don't know about you all, but the interrior sure looks to be made out of the same stuff.

To me the materials sure look a lot a like. I'm just wondering how much of the criticism is based on the fact that it's a GM?

 

[jred321]

does anyone else think having the gauges positioned that low to the driver is a bad idea?

those gauges are just a decoration anyways. they could put them in the back seat and you'd be able to learn just as much from looking at them.


i like the camaro

 

[TinmanMS6]

You guys are really arguing points that are going to make very little difference to the success or failure of these cars. I think the mass market is going to be looking at exterior styling, horsepower numbers, 0-60, and quarter miles. Nobody cares about this "handling" in their pony car.

 

[jred321]

i think the car will be very successful. i've had a pic up as a wallpaper on my work computer for a few months. all kinds of random people who know nothing about cars have commented about how good it looks. enthusiasts don't make car companies money. normal people like the ones stopping by at my desk do.

 

[Protephile]

You guys are really arguing points that are going to make very little difference to the success or failure of these cars. I think the mass market is going to be looking at exterior styling, horsepower numbers, 0-60, and quarter miles. Nobody cares about this "handling" in their pony car.

I don't really care about the interior, as long as the seats are comfortable
and everything is in a relatively ergonomic space.
But I disagree about the handling.
With current technology there's no reason why a 'straight-line pony car'
can't offer decent handling too. The Camaro does this.
I have one more payment left on my Mazda as much as I'd love to trade it for
an RX-8 I will definitely consider the Camaro as well.

 

[Hughes412]

I don't really care about the interior, as long as the seats are comfortable
and everything is in a relatively ergonomic space.
But I disagree about the handling.
With current technology there's no reason why a 'straight-line pony car'
can't offer decent handling too. The Camaro does this.
I have one more payment left on my Mazda as much as I'd love to trade it for
an RX-8 I will definitely consider the Camaro as well.

Well I wouldn't even bother with the RX8 until Mazda does something with that engine. It just doesn't have the power. If they would make a 300+hp RX8 I'd be all over it.

 

[Donas64]

Well I wouldn't even bother with the RX8 until Mazda does something with that engine. It just doesn't have the power. If they would make a 300+hp RX8 I'd be all over it.

Dude I'm so there with you. I don't even need 300 HP. The RX-8 is light enough and nimble enough that 250 HP would be just fine.

What I do need though is at least 200 lb ft. of torque. Thats golf GTI type torque I'm asking for. Nothing epic, just enough so as not to get embarrassed by the grandmother in the Honda accord 4 cylinder in the other lane.

Excellent Chassis dynamics will only take you so far.

But the RX-8 looks so good (before the restyle anyway) and handles so well that I can forgive most of it's short comings

 

[Protephile]

Dude I'm so there with you. I don't even need 300 HP. The RX-8 is light enough and nimble enough that 250 HP would be just fine.

What I do need though is at least 200 lb ft. of torque. Thats golf GTI type torque I'm asking for. Nothing epic, just enough so as not to get embarrassed by the grandmother in the Honda accord 4 cylinder in the other lane.

Excellent Chassis dynamics will only take you so far.

But the RX-8 looks so good (before the restyle anyway) and handles so well that I can forgive most of it's short comings

Not to go too far OT but I agree. If the Rex had even 250/200 hp/tq it would
be a no-brainer for me. I spent the last, well - let's just say it's been a while -
driving practical econoboxes and it's time for me to move back into a RWD
sporty vehicle with some oopmh. If I do choose the 8 it would be strictly for the looks and handling.