2008.5 Speed3 or 2006 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T looking for enthusiats feedback

[Engineer420]

IMO people saying audi "build" quality is better than mazdas is BS.. Audi build quality isn't all that great with electrical problems with taillights(i see all the time by the way) as noted earlier and hardware in the cabin breaks with time. Its a good product and looks great when new and I'm not bashing audis but for me, audis/vw's aren't that durable in the long run with interior wear. I have many family and friends with audi/vw's that have all sorts of loose and broken interior pieces with trim comming unglued, buttons/ switches that don't work, broken cupholders, doorpanels comming off, ...etc. Audi/VW suffer from premature wear that shouldn't happen on relatively new cars. All the things that i've seen break from the audi/vw's just never happened to any of my mazdas. Mazda builds quality durable cars that last from my experiences over the last ten years(my third car). Also, comparing the A4 with the MS3 isn't the right comparrison..the two cars are in two separate classes.. the MS6 is in the same class and it is AWD like the audi. DOn't know if you've seen the new mazda 6 but it looks better than the audi by the way.

 

[Hapa88]

Audi build quality isn't all that great with electrical problems with taillights(i see all the time by the way) as noted earlier and hardware in the cabin breaks with time.

What are you talking about in the taillights?

 

[CX-7owner]

Newer A4's have no electrical problems, but the interiors are better built hands down way better than anything Mazda has put out recently, if the electrical problem with taillights is the morons that turn on their rear fog light with their front fogs, then it's not a problem, just driver error.

 

[Savate]

oh, I forgot to mention the dozen or so armrests I receive for waranty a week plus 5-6 glove box lids, and whats up with the cup holders? Damn thing are over complicated and break all the time, and let's not forget the sun visors, though I admit I only see 3-4 a week go into my warranty bins. For the money people shell out for these cars for "luxury", it makes me wonder. Some of the features are really nice, for the money.

 

[Savate]

More stock power does not necessarily equal a better motor. The MS3 engine is still an unproven. The VAG 2.0T and the prior 1.8T are renowned for being outstanding engines and are incredibly tunable. I hope the mazda will get more attention and tuning in time, but for now, it sucks wind to the Audi/VW tuning scene. So far all I see from Mazda guys are POS piggy backs and broken engines. Mazda has more power stock? Sheeeit I hope so with a 2.3liter running 15+ pounds of boost. If it had any less running that kind of boost it'd be a joke, IMO. Turn the wick up to 15+ on the 2.0t in the Audi and it gets uncomfortably close in power to the 2.3t at the same boost levels.

I'm not bad mouthing Mazda, I really hope the 2.3t becomes the "best thing going" in the next few years so I can ride that wave. It has a lot of potential, but it is not yet realized.

I really don't like how inconsistent the power is in my Mazda. It is smoother than I expected coming from Mazda, and it performs well most of the time. But at random times it has far less power, for no damn reason.

Both of those A4 motors run great but I have seen WAY too many sludged 1.8T's to make me even consider it a "good" motor. It could be user neglect, but why that specific motor all the time? The 2.0T seems to be improved, I've only seen 3 replaced last year.

 

[CX-7owner]

Both of those A4 motors run great but I have seen WAY too many sludged 1.8T's to make me even consider it a "good" motor. It could be user neglect, but why that specific motor all the time? The 2.0T seems to be improved, I've only seen 3 replaced last year.

So much hate, I mean the 1.8T did have sludge problems but it has been fixed, as far as the 2.0T goes it's amazing, and Mazda definitely hasn't caught up to the 2.0T in terms of refinement, or driveability, lets not forget motor mounts failing, several reflashes for the PCM(at least for the CX-7), etc.. Audi isn't perfect and neither is Mazda.

The 2.0T is such a major improvement over the 1.8T, no lag and a fat torque curve.

 

[PeterC]

Regarding the clutch, the MS3s is pretty bad, but I have 4 friends that own A4s and all of them complain about their clutches being touchy and generally unforgiving compared to BMWs.

 

[Engineer420]

Driving around the city..I see a few audis every week that have their taillights stuck "on".. from A4 to A8s, mostly A4's meaning it looks like the person is driving around with their foot on the brake. I laugh at those people because they have no idea and just bought a new 85,000 A8 that doesn't have working taillights

Audis look great on the showroom floor and don't forget were talking about the cheapest new A4 costing 35,000 plus, so of course the interior finishes are nicer because they use suede and other finishes that look and feel nice so they sell cars but peel and fade. Mazda isn't in the business of making luxury vehicles but rather good cars for the money that last. My point is just because the Audi interior is nicer doesn't mean its better Quality. That same Audi interior will disappoint you after 3-4 years of normal wear and tear cuz I've seen it over and over. For example, would you say a lexus is better quality than a honda. The lexus is nicer but the actual Build Quality isn't any better. same in this case of audi and mazda

 

[Savate]

So much hate, I mean the 1.8T did have sludge problems but it has been fixed, as far as the 2.0T goes it's amazing, and Mazda definitely hasn't caught up to the 2.0T in terms of refinement, or driveability, lets not forget motor mounts failing, several reflashes for the PCM(at least for the CX-7), etc.. Audi isn't perfect and neither is Mazda.

The 2.0T is such a major improvement over the 1.8T, no lag and a fat torque curve.

Trust me, its not hate. I love the commissions to order new engines, it helped pay for my new MS3! I agree with the improvements on the base engine. The turbo still leaves something to be desired as I seem to replace just as many.

 

[PeterC]

RE: turning radius? Seriously? My MS3 has a horrid turning radius (not that I care) whereas my Audi can probably turn a circle completely inside of my MS3 turning circle.

From Edmunds:
Mazdaspeed 3: 36.1 ft
Audi A4: 36.4 ft

 

[fastdreams]

Both of those A4 motors run great but I have seen WAY too many sludged 1.8T's to make me even consider it a "good" motor. It could be user neglect, but why that specific motor all the time? The 2.0T seems to be improved, I've only seen 3 replaced last year.

Hah. I never had a problem with my 2 1.8t Audi's. Lots and lots of very hard miles. Very hard. Chipped miles and k04'd miles. Tracked, autocrossed, heavily abused on the street miles.

Maybe a combination of Audi's bad maintenance recommendations (which they've changed), user neglect, and perhaps a design sensitive to both of the above caused the 1.8t sludge issue during a certain period of time.

Consider that since you are on the maintenance end of Audis, obviously all you are going to see are problems. I guarantee that if you work for BMW or MB you will have the same kind of experience. Even Mazda, if all you see are the problems day in and out, of course that forms your opinion about the whole shebang. Tell you what, to this day I'm really quite surprised how well the F-16 works, and sometimes it's a wonder to me how they aren't falling out of the sky. 3 years wrenching on those things will make you wonder.

The 1.8t and 2.0t are outstanding engines, better than good. A few maintenance issues you have seen do not make them less so. Do Audi's have more issues than a Mazda? Of course. I actually bought the Mazda because I'd like to have a break from the Audi pay-to-play ratio. But what do I find when I start doing more investigation of the 2.3t? Oh my, this is probably not going to be the free ride I was hoping for. Loving the 2000 mile creaks and rattles too. At least I can just say, well it's a car with economy roots. When my Audi creaks and rattles it's a little more annoying

You aren't the first Audi tech I've seen tell people to stay away from them. But I also know Audi techs that love them to death and will only drive Audi. <shrug> I think it's just a state of mind.

I will admit that my Audi experience is all B5, from 1997-2001.5 (my current Audi is 2001.5 S4 avant) so I don't know much about the B6+.

But I love the MS3, and as I've come to expect with this car as well as other cars, you have to pay to play if you want to have this much fun.

I don't have a point, just my thoughts.

 

[tunersteve]

The 2.3 MZR has been on Ward's 10 Best Engines since it debuted in the MS6, 3 years in a row I believe.

More stock power does not necessarily equal a better motor. The MS3 engine is still an unproven. The VAG 2.0T and the prior 1.8T are renowned for being outstanding engines and are incredibly tunable. I hope the mazda will get more attention and tuning in time, but for now, it sucks wind to the Audi/VW tuning scene. So far all I see from Mazda guys are POS piggy backs and broken engines. Mazda has more power stock? Sheeeit I hope so with a 2.3liter running 15+ pounds of boost. If it had any less running that kind of boost it'd be a joke, IMO. Turn the wick up to 15+ on the 2.0t in the Audi and it gets uncomfortably close in power to the 2.3t at the same boost levels.

I'm not bad mouthing Mazda, I really hope the 2.3t becomes the "best thing going" in the next few years so I can ride that wave. It has a lot of potential, but it is not yet realized.

I really don't like how inconsistent the power is in my Mazda. It is smoother than I expected coming from Mazda, and it performs well most of the time. But at random times it has far less power, for no damn reason.

 

[CX-7owner]

Driving around the city..I see a few audis every week that have their taillights stuck "on".. from A4 to A8s, mostly A4's meaning it looks like the person is driving around with their foot on the brake. I laugh at those people because they have no idea and just bought a new 85,000 A8 that doesn't have working taillights

Audis look great on the showroom floor and don't forget were talking about the cheapest new A4 costing 35,000 plus, so of course the interior finishes are nicer because they use suede and other finishes that look and feel nice so they sell cars but peel and fade. Mazda isn't in the business of making luxury vehicles but rather good cars for the money that last. My point is just because the Audi interior is nicer doesn't mean its better Quality. That same Audi interior will disappoint you after 3-4 years of normal wear and tear cuz I've seen it over and over. For example, would you say a lexus is better quality than a honda. The lexus is nicer but the actual Build Quality isn't any better. same in this case of audi and mazda

That same MZ3/MS3 interior will start to scratch very easily and rattle very early on.. the silver trim in my CX-7 is disappointing because it scratches SO easily and just gets worse, just a few more dollars spent on development could have improved the design and I wouldn't be talking about it now.

The interior quality is better in the Audi, the durability of the materials is lacking, and from both manufacturers, one thing my Audi is free of, rattles!
The build quality is better too, the panel fitment/gaps is impressive, that interior design has been around for a while though.

 

[CX-7owner]

The 2.3 MZR has been on Ward's 10 Best Engines since it debuted in the MS6, 3 years in a row I believe.

The FSI 2.0T has been on that same list (above the DISI 2.3T).

 

[Engineer420]

Mazda's aren't perfect and mazda has to stop somewhere in order to give you a 25,000 MS3 or whatever your cx-7 went for. Point is for the money..mazda is the best value for every dollar you spend. I don't have any trim to scratch and no creaks/sqeeks in my ms3 at 16,000.

 

[tunersteve]

The FSI 2.0T has been on that same list (above the DISI 2.3T).

I actually just looked at that and see it mentioned as well. I was just stating that wow a newcomer on the engine scene, the engine itself is well praised by many automotive resources.

 

[Hapa88]

Driving around the city..I see a few audis every week that have their taillights stuck "on".. from A4 to A8s, mostly A4's meaning it looks like the person is driving around with their foot on the brake. I laugh at those people because they have no idea and just bought a new 85,000 A8 that doesn't have working taillights

Sorry to inform you but THIS IS A REAR FOG LIGHT! In Europe this is standard equipment on all Audi's, BMWs, Mercedes, Jaguar, etc. On older VWs/Audis it is only on one side (looks like 1 brake light on). On the newer cars it is on both sides looking like the brake lights are always on.

Note the switch here with front and rear fog lights:

Here is one activated:

on a BMW:

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the car, it's because the driver has no idea there are two fog light buttons, one for the front, one for the rear (they probably just use both).

 

[fastdreams]

From Edmunds:
Mazdaspeed 3: 36.1 ft
Audi A4: 36.4 ft

I'll be damned. I don't believe it. I have to do more 3-point turns in my Mazda than any car I've had in a while. Maybe it's different with the newer audis? Mine is a 2001.5 S4.

 

[fastdreams]

Mazda's aren't perfect and mazda has to stop somewhere in order to give you a 25,000 MS3 or whatever your cx-7 went for. Point is for the money..mazda is the best value for every dollar you spend. I don't have any trim to scratch and no creaks/sqeeks in my ms3 at 16,000.

Can't argue with that, it's the main reason there is a MS3 in my driveway, next to my wife's '08 CRV (22k for that, hell of a deal for what the car gives you) and of course my "old" love, the 2001.5 Audi S4. The best feeling car on the road? Well sorry it's the Audi with 120k miles all stock. The MS3 is more fun and more engaging.

No creaks at 16k miles?! Lucky. I'm at about 4500 now and have a couple, the damn dash rattles like it's got 250k miles on it. Mine is an '08, is yours?

 

[fastdreams]

To continue my PW'ing of this thread:

My comments regarding the engine being "unproven" are from the perspective of aftermarket tuning. No doubt this thing is a gem from Mazda, but disappointing so far in the aftermarket.

I hate it when Audi drivers have their damn rear fogs on for no reason. I feel like pulling them over and slapping them twice, then showing them why.