2008.5 Speed3 or 2006 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T looking for enthusiats feedback

[///Manuel]

Been lurking the boards for the past couple of months. I was looking at getting a smaller sports car while still being able to carry my windsurfing gear around and getting decent gas mileage.

I ran into the speed3 and it looked like a promising option. However, I can't seem to be satisfied with its overall look and build quality (interior). The Audi has more luxury to it while not being as sporty (more weight and less power). The exterior looks of the Audi I feel are better as well.

Also, one advantage the Audi has (they have similar gas mileage) is that it's an AWD car. So could it be more fun to rotate through corners?
I'd be throwing a set of springs and possibly shocks on the Audi, as well as wheels and installing a CAI as well to open her up some.

Now, I understand the Audi's maintenance will be more expensive and that it wouldn't be new but I'm fine with that. Here is a list of pros for each. I need help!

A4:
- AWD
- Better look
- More room
- Better build quality

Speed3:
- Cheaper (maintenance & parts)
- New
- More options
- Faster

 

[trufanatic]

depends on what you the driver is looking for. two totally different cars for two totally different purposes.

MS3:
Mid range high power econobox compared to any audi
straightline w/ decent cornering performance
A good daily driver and toy mixed into the same car

Audi:
a drivers car, some performance mixed in with luxury
AWD a plus but more power you try and make, less of that being actually put to the ground
unless you get an Audi S4 dont expect to beat an MS3 in anything less

 

[SPEED305]

if thats your comparison,
the MS3 wins, same price for BRAND NEW car. there is no thought in that

 

[///Manuel]

Thanks. I loved the speed3 so much when I tried it that I was ready to buy it but didn't want to do anything impulsive either. I will try a 2.0T tomorrow and see what I think.

I really like enjoy breaking a car loose under power. That's almost what it's all about. Although I have heard of throttle steering being possible with the speed, I'm sure it requires more speed than anything legal on the street. For the track, I'd take the speed but for street I wonder if a 2.0T would do?

 

[trufanatic]

VW's 2.0t motor produces decent amounts of torque but its really underpowered and has a pea shooter for a turbo. ATP performance had a ton of turbo kits for these cars and you can probably make that audi turn out 300+whp. But it would cost you a whole lot less to turn out that much power in a MS3.

Its up to you

 

[lil_red_wagon]

if you want to make a comparison, compare apples to apples. the ms3 is fwd while the a4 is awd. compare the ms6 to the a4. making that comparison is more fair. while the 3 is a great car that is really good looking and performs really well, an awd system would be better on so many levels. the ms6 looks more responsible and not as fun, but awd turbo is TONS OF FUN.

honestly, if i had to make the choice of a4 versus ms3, i would take the a4. if i had to choose a4 or ms6, i would take the ms6. hands down on both of those decisions. up to you though. i would give the ms6 a shot at least.

 

[trufanatic]

if you want to make a comparison, compare apples to apples. the ms3 is fwd while the a4 is awd. compare the ms6 to the a4. making that comparison is more fair. while the 3 is a great car that is really good looking and performs really well, an awd system would be better on so many levels. the ms6 looks more responsible and not as fun, but awd turbo is TONS OF FUN.

honestly, if i had to make the choice of a4 versus ms3, i would take the a4. if i had to choose a4 or ms6, i would take the ms6. hands down on both of those decisions. up to you though. i would give the ms6 a shot at least.

X2

 

[fastdreams]

I love the Audi experience. Completely different character and feel than the MS3. I got the MS3 and was going to sell my Audi, but wound up keeping it as well. I drive the Audi more often. When I get in the Mazda, I'm kind of irritated by the clutch/tranny actuation. But my irritation is immediately gone when I hit the gas, and when I take a few corners at a fun speed.

Obviously the MS3 is faster in most situations, not necessarily more fun. It is very satisfying to take full advantage of quattro.

My MS3 is fun and a bit on the wild side, my Audi is more solid feeling, more confident. The Audi looks great, inside and out. Far and above the Mazda IMO.

BTW my audi is a '01.5 S4 Avant.

If you've never owned an Audi make sure you're getting a CPO (certified pre-owned warranty from Audi) if it's used. My car has 120k miles and hasn't been too troublesome, but I know some other guys that spend a lot more time and money in the shop.

I think I will always have an Audi in my posession, or be in between Audi's.

I brought my MS3 for the track event this weekend.

BTW, I've had comments from my wife and mom on separate occasions on how nice the Audi rides, and how well it handles the roads. This is the original (and getting worn IMO) suspension with 120k. They are less impressed with the MS3, but then it rides much more like a sports car and they are not car nuts like me.

 

[CX-7owner]

I would get the A4 avant, we have a 2.0T and with 499.99 you can have it chipped to output 290FTLBS, and 250HP.

Get the A4! And for the first 4/50,000 miles on 06 models maintenance is free.

 

[Derek88]

Get the A4! And for the first 4/50,000 miles on 06 models maintenance is free.

Good thing you said '06s... they stopped that for '07+.

I used to work for VW/Audi (I was mostly in VW though) and I had a '03 A4 as well as drove all of the loaner cars for Audi- including taking a '06 A4 to the beach for a week.

I would choose the MS3. Although the Audi may be a bit better in some aspects, IMO, it doesnt offset the cost. A timing belt job for those is well over $1000 (timing chain for the MS3). CV boots at all corners, soft-ass german brake pads, ect. will cost you so much more money than with the Mazda. Even though the same engine is used with the Passat and the GTI, A3/4 parts are much more expensive!

The Mazda would be a lot cheaper, more fun to drive (although I loved my Audi), and much quicker. But it depends if that's what you're into.

If you do decide to get the Audi, you wont be disappointed as they are great cars. But definitely get an S-line 6spd Quattro!

 

[happy and angry]

Be careful with Audis/VWs. For the last 6 or 7 years, the electrical systems for those cars have been incredibly problematic. Yes, build quality is better in some areas, but reliability in others is seriously suspect.

if you want to make a comparison, compare apples to apples.

I HATE it when people say this. It's incredibly dumb to suggest that you can't compare "apples to oranges." Comparing two different things is THE ENTIRE POINT OF A COMPARISON IN THE FIRST PLACE.

 

[///Manuel]

Wow such good feedback, thank you all!

For those mentioning the MS6, unfortunately I need a hatchback to fit my windsurfing stuff. Which is unfortunate because it cuts down on my options.

I went and tried out an 06 2.0T 6-speed this afternoon.

First, the exterior look is very nice, I definitely like the lines and with a drop and some nice wheels, this ride will look sharp.

The interior is just as nice and the build quality is excellent everywhere. The one thing I immediately noticed is that I have very little heel room which makes it impossible to tilt my foot sideways for heel and toeing action. You have to keep your foot straight and put it halfway on the brake pedal instead to heel with the side of your foot as opposed to your well ... your heel Some modifications around the pedals will need to take place.

The clutch felt ok, there's quite a bit of play there until it grabs and then you can feel the whole four wheels moving!

Speaking of moving, luckily for me, it had just snowed overnight so I had about 2 or 3 inches of ice and snow on side streets for my driving pleasure while the main roads were clear for asphalt contact fun.

I started off things gently warming up the car. Unlike the speed3 I had no problem adjusting to the clutch or gearbox. It would even forgive small errors and never induce jerking. That is really nice.

Once accustomed to the controls and nicely fitted in the seats I decided to let the 2.0T motor speak. First thing I noticed was how nicely the ESP (traction control) interacted with the driver. It was not too obtrusive. However, the lack of sliding got to me and I had to shut it off.

As I was getting more confident (talking about a few seconds here really), I turned in, pushed the gas in and went into four wheel drifting so easily. Absolutely no problem keeping the car under control, amazing traction at turn in even on the snow and wonderful power delivery. Lots of people speak of Subaru's traction out here in Colorado, man does the Audi Quattro do a good job of taking care of that as well.

After a few more slides and ABS braking, I went on to the highway. There the car didn't feel as connected to the road as the speed, and didn't have nearly as much power but enough to have some fun. It doesn't beg to be pushed as the speed does. The steering wasn't as precise as well. I believe springs (stiffen the whole thing), exhaust (better sound) and chip (more power) would help to alleviate some of these things. But as far as road feel goes, the speed wins.

Brakes didn't feel as good in the Audi. I thought they lacked precision and modulation when the Mazda's were impeccable.

So there you have it. AWD, more luxury, refinement, room and quality on one side, more power, performance, connection with the road, cheaper option on the other.

At this point, I believe neither would be a bad choice but the Audi's additional room and tuning possibilities seem attractive to me.

 

[CX-7owner]

Quattro is amazing, that alone (AWD over FWD) would have me at the Audi dealer.

Getting a RS4 sway bar would greatly improves handling, although I'm not sure if it works for the Avant.
The FSI is more reliable when you want to start pushing the envelope too.

 

[///Manuel]

I have started browsing around Audi forums, it looks like there are some interesting tuning routes (chip or turbo swap) that could get the car to move enough for my taste. I will also contact a friend of mine who owns an Audi shop and see what he thinks.

I thought for sure I was going to get the speed3 though. I would love to see the 2008.5 when it comes out. The power looks so awesome but I don't know if I would be satisfied with fwd only and the "ok" build quality.

It is so nice to see fairly unbias feedback on this forum though, thanks all.

 

[CX-7owner]

Once you have AWD you will hate FWD, I had a FWD S40 prior to my AWD CX-7 and I can't believe I didn't have AWD sooner, it's just better, in nearly every aspect, in the dry, wet, anytime where FWD would be spinning wheels.

 

[Savate]

Going back to the OPs comment on luxury, I would have to say that that interier of most Audi car look great but have a bad habit of turning to crap over a short period of time. Buttons peeling, window switches breaking, trim coming loose,etc...plus the center cap paint peels off like sunburnt skin. I can say this with some authority because I have worked in an Audi warranty dept. for some time now. On the plus they ride real smooth but good luck parking in a short turn. (drinks) either way.

 

[CX-7owner]

I'm having that same problem on my CX-7, two window switches broke, silver trim is scratching very easily, thing's aren't fitting like they used to, but no doubt I still love the car, the Audi has only needed the Airbag resistor fixed ( same thing happened in my CX-7 ) and the gear shift trim replaced (the black plastic stuff) we're at 34K miles now and 24K in the CX-7.

I just chalk it up to things that happen, car's aren't perfect, but Audi has a track record of quality issues as time passes, we're just extra careful.

 

[fastdreams]

Interesting comments on the interior. On Audi's I've owned, some parts of the interior hold up very poorly, but MOST of the interior still looks beautiful and fresh after many many miles. For some reason Audi chose some weird materials for the door pulls, and the shifter console. Those are the only areas of my interior that piss me off. They feel good to the touch but wind up being too soft for the long haul. I guess cheap hard plastic would have held up better but look and feel like s*** anyway.

RE: turning radius? Seriously? My MS3 has a horrid turning radius (not that I care) whereas my Audi can probably turn a circle completely inside of my MS3 turning circle.

RE: road feel
The Audi has much more of a "chunky" feel. You will never have that road feel that you get from the likes of an M3, or an MS3 for that matter. I really like the chunky feel as for me it's part of the Audi experience. It plays well in hand with the rest of the solid, confident inspiring experience you get when you push the Audi hard. You will feel like a hero at first, because the Audi chassis + quattro do a great job of masking driver error. And when you get good, it turns out to be a very capable dance partner. (just look at the winner of Sport compact car mags recent ultimate street car challenge: http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/uscc/0712_sccp_2007_ultimate_street_car_challenge/index.html)

RE: FWD sucks

At the track, the MS3 really hauls and the FWD is not as much of a limitation as I expected. It is very forgiving and the LSD works very well. On the street however, it gets on my nerves at times, especially if the road is not perfectly dry. All this power and nowhere to put it.

RE: aftermarket
If you like to mod, you will love the aftermarket for the Audi. There are so many good parts available you will have trouble deciding what to buy! The MS3 has next to nothing available by comparison.

Random thoughts:
Ultimately, I'd rather have a modded Audi than a MS3. Even if the Audi is slower overall. But I'm happy to have the MS3, it is definitely a blast and I intend to hang on to it for a good long while. I chose the MS3 as a compromise (economics were the compromising factor) and I'm happy that I chose the Mazda over the other compromise choices: GTI, SI, WRX, etc.

Honestly this would be a tough choice for me if I was in your shoes, my heart would tell me to jump in the Audi, but my mind and pocket book would have me in the MS3.

 

[Powerslave]

ms3 is great quality and has a better motor, the turbo in the a4 is just an older model of ours, our turbo is "new and improved". But still the audi has class and 4whd....

 

[fastdreams]

ms3 is great quality and has a better motor, the turbo in the a4 is just an older model of ours, our turbo is "new and improved". But still the audi has class and 4whd....

More stock power does not necessarily equal a better motor. The MS3 engine is still an unproven. The VAG 2.0T and the prior 1.8T are renowned for being outstanding engines and are incredibly tunable. I hope the mazda will get more attention and tuning in time, but for now, it sucks wind to the Audi/VW tuning scene. So far all I see from Mazda guys are POS piggy backs and broken engines. Mazda has more power stock? Sheeeit I hope so with a 2.3liter running 15+ pounds of boost. If it had any less running that kind of boost it'd be a joke, IMO. Turn the wick up to 15+ on the 2.0t in the Audi and it gets uncomfortably close in power to the 2.3t at the same boost levels.

I'm not bad mouthing Mazda, I really hope the 2.3t becomes the "best thing going" in the next few years so I can ride that wave. It has a lot of potential, but it is not yet realized.

I really don't like how inconsistent the power is in my Mazda. It is smoother than I expected coming from Mazda, and it performs well most of the time. But at random times it has far less power, for no damn reason.