2003 Mazda 2.0L DOHC SMOKING in the Mornings and leaking oil from exhaust port

[HCFL]

I hate to be the dick that bumps an old thread but I'm wondering how the OP made out with this problem. I have an 03 mazdaspeed protege that's doing the exact same thing. Burns oil in the morning when cold. Its gotten better since I put in lighter 5w-20 oil, with a liter of Lucas oil stabilizer. Last time I burned a liter every 1000km but now its been 1000km and I've only burnt a 1/4L of oil according to the dipstick.

Is it possible that the engine needs a rebuild ? I'm trying to think of a way to do piston oil rings without causing too much problem for myself. I'm mechanically inclined but never took apart an engine before. I really want to take one apart and fix it.

Anyone else have any input on this subject?

Does it make sense that the engine doesn't burn as much oil with thinner oil? I'm not sure if that Lucas oil stabilizer really thickened it up all that much but it seems to have fixed the large consumption problem I had before.

Although I still have a big cloud of blue smoke. It starts the cloud 10 seconds after its started and lasts 10 seconds.

The other thing is I don't want to spend an arm and a leg to get it working properly I just want it to burn less oil.

 

[KCKrogoth]

Do a compression test, that will rule out rings or if it could be something else. Mine had similar problems that it only smoked when it was cold and burned oil, did a compression test and pulled 150psi across the board. I believe that the numbers are supposed to be closer to 195 or so (I'd have to look it up). When I tore the motor apart the pistons practically fell out after unbolting them from the crank. When I put the new rings on I had to force the pistons back in the cylinders...was a big difference.

 

[HCFL]

Interesting...I did a compression test and got 165-175psi between cylinders. So worn rings could be the culprit? How easy is it to do the ring job? Do they come out nicely from the bottom or would it be much easier to pull the engine first?

Irrelevant: Since I'm on the subject of ripping the engine apart, what kind of parts can I replace for more performance? Forged rods and pistons? (I'm a noob) and will just forged parts increase power ?

 

[KCKrogoth]

Numbers arent that terrible...they should also be close across all 4 cylinders.

I would say you don't have to do new rings, but if you feel like tearing it apart it's easier to do the work with the engine out of the car...but that is just my opinion. Pulling a engine is no biggie for me, done it loads of times on many cars. It is possible to do rings with the engine still in the car also.

As far as forged parts, they won't give you any more power on thier own, they do give you the ability to handle more force however from forced induction and such. Forged parts are stronger parts, not a power adder per-say....more of a power ability adder.

 

[HCFL]

Numbers arent that terrible...they should also be close across all 4 cylinders.

I would say you don't have to do new rings, but if you feel like tearing it apart it's easier to do the work with the engine out of the car...but that is just my opinion. Pulling a engine is no biggie for me, done it loads of times on many cars. It is possible to do rings with the engine still in the car also.

As far as forged parts, they won't give you any more power on thier own, they do give you the ability to handle more force however from forced induction and such. Forged parts are stronger parts, not a power adder per-say....more of a power ability adder.

I see more people commenting on the valve stem seals instead of piston rings. Do you think this could be the case? What about your issue, was it solved with new piston rings? Did you replace rod or crank bearings at the same time? I read that on higher mileage you can't just replace them and you need machine the crank and get correct fitting bearings. Does this sound right?

 

[KCKrogoth]

you can do valve stem seals first, they are far easiest to try out, it's a bit of a task to do them, but not all that bad and you can do it with the engine in the car. You will need some special tools however to compress the valve springs, and keep from dropping the valves into the cyl. I used the rope trick, or you can use compressed air if your valves have a good enough seal on their seats. I personally didn't trust that, so I used a small rope, something like cloths line, and shoved it in the spark plug hole of the cyl and hand turned the motor until it was tight against the valves. This takes a lot of patience and time however. You also need a set of valve seal pliers to get the old seals off, and they are a bit stubborn.

I did the seals first to fix my smoking issue, but it didn't help at all. Once I tore the engine apart and put new rings in, its all went away. I ended up having to pull the motor because of a spun bearing in the first place, so yes, I had the machine shop chemical bath the block, hone the cyl walls, and mill the head, clean the head, and they ground the crank. They also supplied me with the correct size bearings for the mains and rods along with new thrust washers. It was easier to have them source the new bearings because they new how much they took off the crank and what oversize to use. Took the math and guess work out of it for me.

The car runs great and no smoking...minus oil leaks from using crappy seals, so I'm actually going to be pulling it again here shortly and redoing all my front main, and rear main, and cam seals with better quality stuff...FYI...DO NOT BUY DNJ SEALS, They are crap! They all leaked on me almost immediately. Prob within about 100 miles on the new rebuild. While Im at it, I picked up a junkyard head because the cam journals are hella scratched up on mine, and it's easier to just get a new/used junkyard head then try and rescue the old one. Also plan on doing the 1.8L coil pack conversion and long reach plugs too.

 

[HCFL]

Wicked. Sounds like you are quite experienced with this engine and the internals.

So I have to ask what kind of effort and money you put into it. Because I generally use mine as a daily drive and don't intend on spending a whole bunch on it for practical reasons, and the fact that I have my other vehicle that I plan on taking the engine out to do this kind of work with. (as a learning curve)

How long does it take for a machine shop to do all of that work to the engine? How long was your car laid up?

 

[KCKrogoth]

Experienced enough to get into trouble I guess...lol

I've put quite a bit of time and effort into the car itself, but as far as the engine goes, not all that much pain and suffering. I enjoy building cars, especially the engines, it's kinda therapeutic for me I guess. This isn't my only project car, I have 3 of them actually; 97 Miata, and a 89 240sx that built from the ground up including a full right hand drive conversion. That car I'm in pretty deep, probably close to $30k or so in parts...But it's my dedicated Drift car that gets trailered to events and such. As far as the Protege5, I've had it for a long time and slowly been upgrading it as I go. As far as $$$ goes, not all that terrible if you subtract the aftermarket stuffs. All-in-all it has been a very reliable car and I haven't had to do much that wasn't a product of something I altered myself. Plus it has somewhere around 165k miles on it or so.

As far as the engine work was concerned, I think it just cost me a couple hundred for gaskets, rings and new fluids, and the machine work was only $300 including the bearings. I want to say the turn around on the machine shop was 2-3 days, not that bad. I pulled and completely tore the engine down in 4 hours by myself, and I think it took me about 26 hours worth of time doing the head port and polish and cleaning all the carbon off the pistons and such, then about 20 hours (was meticulous to make sure I properly torqued everything and put it all together right) to put it all back together and back into the car and started. Which it fired up first try I might add, no problems.

 

[HCFL]

Experienced enough to get into trouble I guess...lol

I've put quite a bit of time and effort into the car itself, but as far as the engine goes, not all that much pain and suffering. I enjoy building cars, especially the engines, it's kinda therapeutic for me I guess. This isn't my only project car, I have 3 of them actually; 97 Miata, and a 89 240sx that built from the ground up including a full right hand drive conversion. That car I'm in pretty deep, probably close to $30k or so in parts...But it's my dedicated Drift car that gets trailered to events and such. As far as the Protege5, I've had it for a long time and slowly been upgrading it as I go. As far as $$$ goes, not all that terrible if you subtract the aftermarket stuffs. All-in-all it has been a very reliable car and I haven't had to do much that wasn't a product of something I altered myself. Plus it has somewhere around 165k miles on it or so.

As far as the engine work was concerned, I think it just cost me a couple hundred for gaskets, rings and new fluids, and the machine work was only $300 including the bearings. I want to say the turn around on the machine shop was 2-3 days, not that bad. I pulled and completely tore the engine down in 4 hours by myself, and I think it took me about 26 hours worth of time doing the head port and polish and cleaning all the carbon off the pistons and such, then about 20 hours (was meticulous to make sure I properly torqued everything and put it all together right) to put it all back together and back into the car and started. Which it fired up first try I might add, no problems.

That's pretty cool. Up here in Alberta it probably won't be that cheap. I don't have another vehicle (that I can drive in winter) or garage so doing work on it by myself is out of the question until I get settled away in a new house (hopefully that'll happen this summer) and then I can rip and tear this thing down and get the machining done. Did you get the block machined by those guys as well? or did the block stay in the car. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the only thing that needs to be done to the block is hone the cylinders?

 

[KCKrogoth]

I pulled the whole engine and trans out. The block was honed and checked the deck to make sure it was flat. Also had them dip the block and head and clean it.

 

[HCFL]

I pulled the whole engine and trans out. The block was honed and checked the deck to make sure it was flat. Also had them dip the block and head and clean it.

It sounds like you're quite meticulous about the way you do things...for someone budget conscious, does the block need to be dipped or is it just a precautionary measure? I'd like to take the engine out of my car and just do the rings, is that possible? Will I have to replace the bearings or can I just put them back where they were? I guess obviously, if there are other issues they will have to be addressed. But I need to concentrate on saving as much money as possible, at this point in my life. I would basically like to keep this thing running at it's optimal, for as least as possible.

 

[KCKrogoth]

It's good to be meticulous when building engines, it saves from problems down the road. I had the block dipped because of the spun bearing, so there were metal shavings floating around the engine from that. I wanted to make sure they were all cleaned out. Also, it's a good way to remove corrosion in the water jackets from coolant and such. Honing is a requirement...Basically the cylinder walls are all smooth from the rings running up and down for hundreds of miles and oil wont stick to the sides anymore. It would be kinda dumb to re-ring the engine without doing that. As far as the bearings, if all you do is take the rods off, they are the only ones you "have to" replace I assume. I wouldn't run the same ones because they are all wore down from use also, and is also a good idea to change them out too. It's generally a good idea to replace any and all "ware" items when you tear down an engine, aka, seals, gaskets, bearings, rings, etc. I've learned that saving money on a build initially from cutting corners ends up in more money wasted later when you have to tear it all apart again for something that you didn't do while you were there last time.

 

[HCFL]

It's good to be meticulous when building engines, it saves from problems down the road. I had the block dipped because of the spun bearing, so there were metal shavings floating around the engine from that. I wanted to make sure they were all cleaned out. Also, it's a good way to remove corrosion in the water jackets from coolant and such. Honing is a requirement...Basically the cylinder walls are all smooth from the rings running up and down for hundreds of miles and oil wont stick to the sides anymore. It would be kinda dumb to re-ring the engine without doing that. As far as the bearings, if all you do is take the rods off, they are the only ones you "have to" replace I assume. I wouldn't run the same ones because they are all wore down from use also, and is also a good idea to change them out too. It's generally a good idea to replace any and all "ware" items when you tear down an engine, aka, seals, gaskets, bearings, rings, etc. I've learned that saving money on a build initially from cutting corners ends up in more money wasted later when you have to tear it all apart again for something that you didn't do while you were there last time.

Ha, I see. So it's fair to say that if I'm not ready to do it myself or prepared to spend money I shouldn't even bother tearing it apart? I'll probably wait if that's the case. It's too difficult to crunch numbers right now as I have no idea what shops charge for machining or dipping the block and they definitely differ between here and NM.

 

[KCKrogoth]

That sounds about right. Good luck either way you go...If yah have any other questions about disassembly/reassembly, feel free to hit me up.