13 sec. 1/4 mile?

[acidbug]

The only way i can see a mazda speed hitting 13's consistently(sp?) is by doing:

1. 3" exhast or remote exhuast valve
2. FMIC
3. Piggy Back like the MPI Tuner
4. CAI/K&N Filter
5. Upgraded Clutch & Flywheel
6. Electronic Boost Control (So you can have like 8psi in 1st for traction..and like 11psi for the rest of the gears) Or MBC( at 11PSI)

Over 11psi..and you will prob need forged internals!

Def not under $2k..but still do able!

Chas

 

[BremertonMSP]

Please read my statments.
I said no one has YET. That does not mean that no one ever will.

I have had only 2 points and most no one is actualy reading them.
1. No one has hit 13's yet on a track without race gas.
2. As it is new territory for the MSP expect most people that try for these times to not only fail but to damage their cars.


Everyone needs to remeber that even though the MSP is only approaching a year old. MP3s, P5's and other 3rd gens have been doing this for a while. The MSP is nothing radicly different. Cetainly some people will make 13's. How long the car lasts after that is another story. Thus far all that came close, have blown axles, trannys and motors.

I do not think we will see anyone able to repeat 13's without EMS.

Lets put together a little MSP 1/4 mile list. I'll update the list as each time is posted. Any MSP owners may post their times, with list of modifications. If you can, please provid a scanned slip too.

- 13.7 @ 103.6mph - Dinospeed - MPI Tuner, Injectors, 2.25" Downpipe, Talon Intercooler (14psi)
- 13.9 @ 102mph - Wesman - Turbo Back Exhaust, FCD, MBC (14psi)
- 14.0 @ 99mph - MSPDAVE125 - FMIC, Turbo Back Exhaust, MBC (9.5psi)
- 14.0 @ 98mph - soundbombing - Intake, FMIC, FCD, MBC (14psi)
- 14.1 @ 103.5mph - ARunto - Intake, FPR, FCD, 2.5" Downpipe, MBC (10psi)
- 14.1 @ 99.8mph - bored132 - 3" Exhaust, FCD, MBC (12psi)
- 14.0 @ 97mph - boosted protege - Intake, Gutted cats, PCM Flash, Profec E01 (9psi)
- 14.3 @ 98.5mph - InsidiousMSP - Intake, FPR, FCD, MBC (12psi)
- 14.3 @ 97.8mph - YloDmonMSP - Intake, FCD, PCM Flash, MBC (13psi)
- 14.6 @ 97mph - BlkZoomZoom - Co2 sprayer, Adjusted Wastegate (8psi)
- 14.6 @ 96mph - 03BlkMicaSPD - Intake (9psi)
- 15.3 @ 91mph - servoeyes - Intake, PCM Flash
- 14.9 @ 95mph - soupedmsp - Intake, FMIC, MBC (12psi)
- 15.1 @ 93mph - Tommy1005 - MBC (8.5psi)
- 15.1 @ 89mph - mazdaspeed75 - Intake
- 15.2 @ 92mph - MazdaSpeedTurbo - Stock
- 15.3 @ 90mph - BremertonMSP - Stock
- 15.3 @ 89mph - JeRNuT - Stock
- 15.4 @ 89mph - chrisjw85 - PCM Flash
- 15.5 @ 90mph - NoVaMSP - Stock
- 15.5 @ 87mph - ProPartsUSA - Intake, Downpipe, 3" Exhaust (3,500 ft)
- 15.6 @ 88mph - Black Majik MSP - PCM Flash
- 15.8 @ 88mph - MSP4EVER - Stock

I think you are wrong. A couple of people have hit 13's and there are a few more that are very, very close.

 

[1sty]

I think you are wrong. A couple of people have hit 13's and there are a few more that are very, very close.

Good to know. However I can not find a thread that list Dino posting that time. I did see a thread challenging others to come out and see him hit 13's but then no fallow up.

Wesmen Simply jacked the boost up and hoped the car lasted. As I said before, any moron can crank the boost to make it down the track in under 14 seconds.The relevence here is how long the car will last doing that. IT won't. Dinospeed seems to be in the best position as he has EMS.

 

[1sty]

The only way i can see a mazda speed hitting 13's consistently(sp?) is by doing:

And theres the catch. Can the car maintain that perfomance on the road.

 

[DiscreetSpeed]

And theres the catch. Can the car maintain that perfomance on the road.

havent had any problems what so ever...after all the oh man your going to blow your engine..blah blah (jerkit)

 

[DiscreetSpeed]

Over 11psi..and you will prob need forged internals!
Chas

says who???.......you?....or let me guess someone here said?
spoolin was pushing a bigger turbo and still had stock internals....

 

[acidbug]

And theres the catch. Can the car maintain that perfomance on the road

Absolutley...the mpi tuner/piggy..will help the mazda speed controll the timing..which is a problem the the msp is having..that's why they have detonation problem..especially after the flash..if i remember correctly...mazda advanced the timing..to help compensate for the hesitation!

says who???.......you?....or let me guess someone here said?
spoolin was pushing a bigger turbo and still had stock internals....

Discreet..in my post..i said ~12 psi..that means..on pump gas..not on race fuel..

with racefuel..you can easily run more..but i thought the idea was w/ out race fuel!

And Yes spoolin was pushing a bigger turbo and still had stock internals...BUT...He had a stand alone....2ndly spoolin's car was NOT A DAILY DRIVER! With highbooost setups..they were runnin 14psi w/ racefuel! And once again..NOT A DAILY DRIVER!

Chas

 

[BremertonMSP]

says who???.......you?....or let me guess someone here said?
spoolin was pushing a bigger turbo and still had stock internals....

Agreed. There is so much "he said" on this board it cracks me up. Not to mention all the "your going to break your motor if you boost over 9psi." The people making these statements do not know for sure if that is true, but it doesn't seem to stop them from saying it.

Do you want to know how I run 10psi with nothing more then a home made CAI and 91 octane gas? It's my driving style. It's the fact that I don't beat my car to death every time I get in it. It's not rocket science. Take care of your equipment, and it will take care of you.

 

[acidbug]

Well don't expect good time..if you baby your car at the track!

Chas

 

[DiscreetSpeed]

And Yes spoolin was pushing a bigger turbo and still had stock internals...BUT...He had a stand alone....2ndly spoolin's car was NOT A DAILY DRIVER! With highbooost setups..they were runnin 14psi w/ racefuel! And once again..NOT A DAILY DRIVER!

Chas

not a daily driver?...heh i know i read somewhere he said it was...did you ask him perosnally?
lol him runnin a stand alone does what??? lessen the chance of blowin the engine due to boosting higher...lol engine management will make the car run smoother and leveled...it will do nothing to lessen the chance of blowin the engine...if the engine cant hold the power..its goin to go.

on the msp 18psi is easily attainable with i little higher octane..if the engine goes its not due to detonation or lack of fuel...its the power its forced to make.

EDIT:the fuel delivery on a stock msp is set to blow more than enough fuel..enough with the youll need fuel management s***!(laugh) (smash)

 

[GREATG]

There is a lot of speculation on this thread. I was there when Wesman did the 13.99 @ 102.3 so let me clear some things up. It was on half a tank of race 104 and it was 17psi. It took all day to do the number, it was not easy. The best mph was 104. All of it was with the stock air filter in place. Traction was a big problem, even on a sticky track.
Some of you think that forged internals are the answer to all the MSPs problems, that is not accurate. Detonation will kill a forged motor too. There is no metal in the world that can stand up under it. It causes 10 times the cylinder pressures of a normal compression cycle. Engine management control of the spark curve is the only thing that can ensure it doesn't blow up.
The original question was kind of vague - the 13s...
If that means one timeslip in the 13.9s, you can strip the interior, speakers, door panels etc and crank the boost and get it done with an exhaust and race gas. But if he means I want to be able to cruise with some buds in the car, with pump gas, run into a 13.0 sec vette or something and be able to keep up, then we are talking about a much faster car. Bigger turbo, bigger intercooler, forged internals, clutch & flywheel, and definately engine management ( you just need control of the spark curve!). This car when stripped and filled with race gas would be a 12 sec at the track.

 

[acidbug]

not a daily driver?...heh i know i read somewhere he said it was...did you ask him perosnally?
lol him runnin a stand alone does what??? lessen the chance of blowin the engine due to boosting higher...lol engine management will make the car run smoother and leveled...it will do nothing to lessen the chance of blowin the engine...if the engine cant hold the power..its goin to go.

on the msp 18psi is easily attainable with i little higher octane..if the engine goes its not due to detonation or lack of fuel...its the power its forced to make.

EDIT:the fuel delivery on a stock msp is set to blow more than enough fuel..enough with the youll need fuel management s***!(laugh) (smash)

Absolutley...the mpi tuner/piggy..will help the mazda speed controll the timing..which is a problem the the msp is having..that's why they have detonation problem..especially after the flash..if i remember correctly...mazda advanced the timing..to help compensate for the hesitation!

I never mentioned fuel! I mentioned timing!

Which car are you talking about..b/c i know for a fact spool's wasn't a daily driver..he kept in the garage for the most part!

Juan's car..Not 100% sure..but i believe it's also..not a daily..driver..

Engine management..will mean the difference between detonation at 12psi or detonation at 10psi! As i mentioned earlier..the problem is w/ the msp is the advanced timing..due to the Flash! And that's why people were abe to run higher boost levels before the Flash!

You can thank mazda for being lazy...and not doing a workover on the fuel maps..instead of just bumping up the timing!

Yes..a standalone will smoothe things out...i know..b/c w/ my mpi tuner (piggy)..i have better control of the a/f ratio's through out the power band..

I am just trying to help people here..i am not a self proclaimed mechanic of the protege's..but i know engough..to know "When to say What!"

Race fuel..works...i do not doubt that..i know lots of people at the track..that use it..to bump up the boost! Which is fine..but i don't know to many people that can afford race fuel..every day!

Chas

 

[DiscreetSpeed]

cool...
but how many members that own msp's and those that dont come on here and say oh you need fuel management blah blah...
most of you all assume and read to much...just think its funny when i read a msp owner say you need this...when in reality dont know much other then what theyve read.(spank)

 

[GREATG]

For those interested:
http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Articles/Engine/Detonation/

http://www.sdsefi.com/meltdown.htm

reading is good!

 

[BremertonMSP]

For those interested:

http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Articles/Engine/Detonation/

http://www.sdsefi.com/meltdown.htm

reading is good!

Excellent article on Detonation/Pre-Ignition. Thanks for the links GREATG!

Funny, I have two 2.3L Ford motors in my garage with holes in the #3 pistons. I had always thought that the holes where from detonation, not pre-ignition. But the holes are exactly how he discribes them, right in the middle of the piston. BTW, I didn't nuke those motors, that's how they came in the cars that I buy at auction.

 

[1sty]

havent had any problems what so ever...after all the oh man your going to blow your engine..blah blah (jerkit)

And you've run what?
And with what mods?Are you claiming you repeatively break into the 13's without EMS?

 

[1sty]

says who???.......you?....or let me guess someone here said?
spoolin was pushing a bigger turbo and still had stock internals....

Keep going, what else did he have?
What ended up happening to his larger turbo system for the MSP that didn't have EMS?
Someone saying its dangerous is hardly the problem. Its that people have popped motors.

 

[1sty]

Do you want to know how I run 10psi with nothing more then a home made CAI and 91 octane gas? It's my driving style. It's the fact that I don't beat my car to death every time I get in it. It's not rocket science. Take care of your equipment, and it will take care of you.

Your neglecing the fact that engine damage does not neccissarly happen to a mjor leel all at once. Most often an engine is fatiqued over time.

 

[1sty]

not a daily driver?...heh i know i read somewhere he said it was...did you ask him perosnally?
lol him runnin a stand alone does what??? lessen the chance of blowin the engine due to boosting higher...lol engine management will make the car run smoother and leveled...it will do nothing to lessen the chance of blowin the engine...if the engine cant hold the power..its goin to go.

on the msp 18psi is easily attainable with i little higher octane..if the engine goes its not due to detonation or lack of fuel...its the power its forced to make.

EDIT:the fuel delivery on a stock msp is set to blow more than enough fuel..enough with the youll need fuel management s***!(laugh) (smash)

Daily may be not the word, however the relevent point is that his car did not go more then 10K once he was running that much boost. He also had EMS.

EMS allows you to propery map the fuel and timing curve to aviod knock. The Stock MSP computer can not even begin to figure out how to handle 14 PSI. Its not programmed to. It has no ability to pull timing until it see's knock. EMS is tuned to aviod it from the beggining.

 

[1sty]

There is a lot of speculation on this thread. I was there when Wesman did the 13.99 @ 102.3 so let me clear some things up. It was on half a tank of race 104 and it was 17psi. It took all day to do the number, it was not easy. The best mph was 104. All of it was with the stock air filter in place. Traction was a big problem, even on a sticky track.
Some of you think that forged internals are the answer to all the MSPs problems, that is not accurate. Detonation will kill a forged motor too. There is no metal in the world that can stand up under it. It causes 10 times the cylinder pressures of a normal compression cycle. Engine management control of the spark curve is the only thing that can ensure it doesn't blow up.
The original question was kind of vague - the 13s...
If that means one timeslip in the 13.9s, you can strip the interior, speakers, door panels etc and crank the boost and get it done with an exhaust and race gas. But if he means I want to be able to cruise with some buds in the car, with pump gas, run into a 13.0 sec vette or something and be able to keep up, then we are talking about a much faster car. Bigger turbo, bigger intercooler, forged internals, clutch & flywheel, and definately engine management ( you just need control of the spark curve!). This car when stripped and filled with race gas would be a 12 sec at the track.

(thumb)

All true.
Forgedinternals will not stop knock. However they are needed to endure the pressure of a 15 PSI explosion over time. The factory rods will not hold up in the long run. For 20K miles they will likely be fine. They will fatique eventualy. When, depends on the drivers use.