CX-5 Tapping noise

[Jack Rabbit]

Ok. Engine has been making noise for some time now. Indy mechanic last year said its just injectors. Took to dealer last year to have whole car checked out and said check the engine for any problems, especially cracked cylinder head. Vocally mentioned the sound and was told it's the injectors. They had the vehicle and heard it running.

I usually jump in my car and startup and then drive.

So today, while checking the brakes, left vehicle idling to go get my wheelchocks, and heard this from 60 feet away.

Sure sounds like the valves to me.

Also if you listen you can hear both the injectors clicking but you can also hear the tapping noise.

And it hasn't thrown any engine related codes.

Any opinions?
Lifters, HLA's or injectors ???
Thanks.

 

[edmaz]

Can't say I've really heard it inside the car, unless I shut off the radio, heater, etc., then it's more noticeable. Would it cause the avg. owner to be concerned? IMO, I'd say no.

Interesting observations, and certainly something that puts a different perspective on how many of these HLA air bubble issues are occurring now, and also how many will happen in the future.

 

[macker]

Interesting observations, and certainly something that puts a different perspective on how many of these HLA air bubble issues are occurring now, and also how many will happen in the future.

fyi - I started it up yesterday (and today) first thing in the morning (temp was about -5 C) and when I turned the radio and heater off, could clearly hear the clattering HLA's. With radio and heater going, not nearly as noticeable.

I rescheduled my appointment to next Thursday (car will will overnight Wednesday), as we had ice fog here which made visibility poor.

One other note: When the car initially cold starts, RPM's are held high and the clattering HLA's are not very noticeable, but once the RPM's come down to normal idle, it's more noticeable.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

fyi - I started it up yesterday (and today) first thing in the morning (temp was about -5 C) and when I turned the radio and heater off, could clearly hear the clattering HLA's. With radio and heater going, not nearly as noticeable.

I rescheduled my appointment to next Thursday (car will will overnight Wednesday), as we had ice fog here which made visibility poor.

One other note: When the car initially cold starts, RPM's are held high and the clattering HLA's are not very noticeable, but once the RPM's come down to normal idle, it's more noticeable.

If yours tap every start then sounds like they'll should fix yours.

Mine was silent, not even a peep while it was there.

 

[macker]

If yours tap every start then sounds like they'll should fix yours.

Mine was silent, not even a peep while it was there.

Not every time, but more often when its cold out and has sat overnight. Fingers crossed, weather and car will co-operate when at the dealer next week.

 

[Freedom55]

What I find ironic is that hydraulic lifters were designed way back to eliminate periodic valve lash adjustments and make the engine run quieter until they fail that is, usually after a lot of miles on the clock. Mechanical or solid lifters need periodic adjustments; I learned it the hard way on my first car (1972 Corolla) as the valves burned prematurely due to too little or no gap between the valve stem and the rocker arm. Compression was low and idle was rough so I had the head repaired (machined valve seats and new valves).

 

[macker]

What I find ironic is that hydraulic lifters were designed way back to eliminate periodic valve lash adjustments and make the engine run quieter until they fail that is, usually after a lot of miles on the clock. Mechanical or solid lifters need periodic adjustments; I learned it the hard way on my first car (1972 Corolla) as the valves burned prematurely due to too little or no gap between the valve stem and the rocker arm. Compression was low and idle was rough so I had the head repaired (machined valve seats and new valves).

Funny you mention the valve lash adjustment; I owned an 89 Taurus SHO with a Yamaha built engine, and it required that the valve shims be checked and adjusted (if needed) every 60K miles if I remember correctly. I performed it once, and most of the shims were still within tolerance. The Yamaha V6 motor was quite exotic looking, and got lots of questions when the hood was popped....mainly "Is that the stock motor".

 

[macker]

Mazda service checked my car and sure enough, suspect valve lash adjusters. Service advisor (SA) asked me about proof of oil changes as they only saw two performed (via car system/PCM log?). I explained the "fun" in performing the multi-step process of resetting the oil life and that I did run into an issue, which might explain why only 2 of the 4 changes are showing up in the car's computer. Brought my proof of changes in (performed by me) when I went to pick the car up and looks like they are satisfied. Note to any of you DIY'ers or for that matter, even if you take it to a garage or Mazda themselves: keep your receipts for any maintenance/replacement work you do. SA said Mazda of late are asking for proof of regular maintenance performed.

Parts are ordered. Hoping to have them soon so the work can begin. Asked the service advisor how long the job is and said 10 hrs. I'm assuming it's to replace them all, but will confirm.

Asked if it's ok to continue to drive the car and was told yes.

I'll post again when I have more news.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

Mazda service checked my car and sure enough, suspect valve lash adjusters. Service advisor (SA) asked me about proof of oil changes as they only saw two performed (via car system/PCM log?). I explained the "fun" in performing the multi-step process of resetting the oil life and that I did run into an issue, which might explain why only 2 of the 4 changes are showing up in the car's computer. Brought my proof of changes in (performed by me) when I went to pick the car up and looks like they are satisfied. Note to any of you DIY'ers or for that matter, even if you take it to a garage or Mazda themselves: keep your receipts for any maintenance/replacement work you do. SA said Mazda of late are asking for proof of regular maintenance performed.

Parts are ordered. Hoping to have them soon so the work can begin. Asked the service advisor how long the job is and said 10 hrs. I'm assuming it's to replace them all, but will confirm.

Asked if it's ok to continue to drive the car and was told yes.

I'll post again when I have more news.

Thanks for the heads-up on proof. Glad it's getting fixed. Now if only mine would act up while at the dealer.

 

[macker]

Thanks for the heads-up on proof. Glad it's getting fixed. Now if only mine would act up while at the dealer.

How long before your drive train warranty expires?

 

[Jack Rabbit]

How long before your drive train warranty expires?

60000 more miles and 2-3 more years on extended so good so far.

 

[edmaz]

.... Note to any of you DIY'ers or for that matter, even if you take it to a garage or Mazda themselves: keep your receipts for any maintenance/replacement work you do. SA said Mazda of late are asking for proof of regular maintenance performed.
....

Yes, A number of us preach that same thing on a regular basis, and this is the poster child showing why it can be so important!

... I'm assuming it's to replace them all, but will confirm. ...

Coincidentally, I've been having an exceptionally good conversation with a really cooperative guy on Facebook (which I actually rarely post on). He said that his dealer initially only replaced 4 HLAs, chosen apparently at random. They gave no reason for doing only 4, or anything about which ones were chosen.

He just posted back again that the noise was still there after replacing the first group, and they just finished doing the other 4 HLAs yesterday. So far, so good on the noise, after all of them have been replaced.

So hopefully your guys will be doing all of them without any prompting from you. If not, you might want to related this story to them, which I'm certain can be confirmed with that dealer's name, if need be.

Thanks for your continued supply of information - it's greatly appreciated

 

[macker]

Yes, A number of us preach that same thing on a regular basis, and this is the poster child showing why it can be so important!


Coincidentally, I've been having an exceptionally good conversation with a really cooperative guy on Facebook (which I actually rarely post on). He said that his dealer initially only replaced 4 HLAs, chosen apparently at random. They gave no reason for doing only 4, or anything about which ones were chosen.

He just posted back again that the noise was still there after replacing the first group, and they just finished doing the other 4 HLAs yesterday. So far, so good on the noise, after all of them have been replaced.

So hopefully your guys will be doing all of them without any prompting from you. If not, you might want to related this story to them, which I'm certain can be confirmed with that dealer's name, if need be.

Thanks for your continued supply of information - it's greatly appreciated

Interesting. If you can supply the other Mazda Dealer name in case I get push back, that would be great. I imagine doing it twice is way more costly to Mazda then doing it once.

In the service alert it does provide instructions on how to test the HLA's to find the noisy ones, but given they re-designed the for a reason....you would think they would do them all.

Given my car goes out of warranty in May this year, I'll be pushing for all of them to be replaced.

I'm sure glad we have this forum to share info.!!

 

[Jack Rabbit]

Interesting. If you can supply the other Mazda Dealer name in case I get push back, that would be great. I imagine doing it twice is way more costly to Mazda then doing it once.

In the service alert it does provide instructions on how to test the HLA's to find the noisy ones, but given they re-designed the for a reason....you would think they would do them all.

Given my car goes out of warranty in May this year, I'll be pushing for all of them to be replaced.

I'm sure glad we have this forum to share info.!!

Just a thought. Maybe you could drop Mazda corporate an email noting the problem and requesting that all HLA's be replaced while they have the damn thing tore down. That way, when your warranty expires and the other ones break several months from now, you have written documentation on file of the problem and their response.

 

[yrwei52]

⋯
He said that his dealer initially only replaced 4 HLAs, chosen apparently at random. They gave no reason for doing only 4, or anything about which ones were chosen.

He just posted back again that the noise was still there after replacing the first group, and they just finished doing the other 4 HLAs yesterday. So far, so good on the noise, after all of them have been replaced.

He must be talking about “Switchable” Hydraulic Lash Adjusters used on cylinder #1 and #4 with the total of 8. But the Service Alert does mention all 16 HLAs, including the normal ones, should be replaced if needed.

 

[yrwei52]

. ⋯
Given my car goes out of warranty in May this year, I'll be pushing for all of them to be replaced.

Yes, you want the dealer replacing all 16 HLA’s, switchable or not, if possible. You should have known by now how many HLAs they’re going to replace, when they ordered the parts for the job.

In the mean time, might as well to verify if the PCM has been updated by the rocker arm falling recall.

 

[macker]

Yes, you want the dealer replacing all 16 HLA’s, switchable or not, if possible. You should have known by now how many HLAs they’re going to replace, when they ordered the parts for the job.

In the mean time, might as well to verify if the PCM has been updated by the rocker arm falling recall.

According to the service alert there are 8 switchable HLA's. I only got a glance at the parts order list and didn't see the quantities, but did look about as long at he Service Alert part list snipped below.

I'll find out more when the parts arrive and the work is scheduled.

 

[macker]

Just a thought. Maybe you could drop Mazda corporate an email noting the problem and requesting that all HLA's be replaced while they have the damn thing tore down. That way, when your warranty expires and the other ones break several months from now, you have written documentation on file of the problem and their response.

Good idea. I'm waiting to hear back from the service advisor on the qty. they ordered for the job and will pursue the letter if they aren't replacing them all.

 

[edmaz]

Good idea. I'm waiting to hear back from the service advisor on the qty. they ordered for the job and will pursue the letter if they aren't replacing them all.

I'll hold off asking the guy I've been talking to on Facebook for the name of his dealer, until you get an answer from them.

 

[edmaz]

He must be talking about “Switchable” Hydraulic Lift Adjusters used on cylinder #1 and #4 with the total of 8. But the Service Alert does mention all 16 HLAs, including the normal ones, should be replaced if needed.

I'm not seeing a reference to anything other than the switchable HLAs, in my most recent 'tapping noise' TSB (#01-002/21 on 04/30/21)

 

[yrwei52]

I'm not seeing a reference to anything other than the switchable HLAs, in my most recent 'tapping noise' TSB (#01-002/21 on 04/30/21)

Here: