What have you done to your MS3 today?

I've read COUNTLESS AP vs HT threads to figure out the differences in the AFR difference and what it seems to boil down to is keeping the cylinders cool with the extra fuel. The AP guys like to stay leaner up top which is arguably either bad in the long term or has minimal effect. Either way, I'm happy with where it sits. I won't be upgrading to the Cobb. I will when I go big(ger) turbo in the very far future.
 
Wasn't aware that's normal for ht to actually request lower afr in higher rpm range. That would make more sense I guess.
 
Wasn't aware that's normal for ht to actually request lower afr in higher rpm range. That would make more sense I guess.

Yep, HT and now some AP custom tuners have figured out that on direct injection turbocharged engines with little turbos (K04), you can get in trouble in a hurry by trying to keep boost high at high rpm, high load and lean out AFRs.

You can easily keep the turbo in a good efficiency range at 18-19 psi at lower rpm. But you need to taper that boost as rpm climbs. The little stock turbo just maxes out at anything over about 15-16 psi when pushed past 6,000 rpm. Yeah, you can continue to generate higher flow, but it is hot air. Flamethrower.

But, the benefits of rich AFR's under high load, high rpm conditions plays hand-in-glove with the tapered boost. The cylinder cooling benefit (by Mazda design) helps keep EGT's down and reduces the risk of detonaton. By doing this (taper boost down to say 14 and uber rich AFRs down in the 10's, you can do something else that produces huge power benefits at high rpm --- very aggressive timing advance. I mean like 18 degrees of timing advance at 6,500 rpm.

There is no way you can get that aggressive with timing if you lean out the AFRs or if you try to keep boost high all across the rpm range. One solid way to gain power at high rpm, high load is timing advance, if you can avoid knock.

I'm not claiming that one approach is necessarily better than the other, but you cannot safely do both. If you are going to go lean, you have to be very conservative on timing. Either way, tapering boost on the stock turbo on pump gas is a necessity. Yes, high (18-19 psi initially), but then a taper. I sometimes see as little as 13 psi boost at redline, but I'm still making over 270 whp all the way up there, almost as much as my peak of about 300-310 with these mods.

I think there is great wisdom in a tuning approach for these cars that uses the rich AFR's for cylinder cooling, starts high on boost but tapers toward redline and cranks up the timing pretty darn aggressively on the top end.
 
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My first ever virtual dyno. Two runs done on the flattest road I could find going opposite way on 2nd run. Smoothing 3, correction factor 1.01.

FirstVirtualDyno.jpg


Very nice numbers. And no, I disagree with the poster who suggests you need MAF cal or AP. HT has very accurate MAF cal with proper intake choice. Those of us who data log and run HT know that. We also know that AP is not likely to get a similarly modded car over 300 whp.

Here below is one of my VD charts made with HT and mods below. Note that this is also 1.01 correction factor which is way more conservative than DynoJet correction. I think Fishdonotbounce's performance and mine are quite similar and would put them up against any "MAF corrected" AP tune with similar mods and fuel.
 

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etipp and I are good friends and we have actually run our cars side by side when he had his stock turbo. His stock turbo is actually on my car right now and is what powered the dyno run I posted. When he was on stock turbo with Cobb tune and similar mods, I actually pulled on him VERY slightly. He actually had an aftermarket exhaust mani which I did not.
 
I run 17 degrees of timing
19psi
11.8 AFR

all at redline with 93 octane, no meth

jussayin it can be done

IMG00062-20120115-09201.jpg


i was adding timing between runs, at 18 degrees i started seeing some KR and backed it down a degree
 
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Thanks, fish. You've got that car running very well. I think I have more mods (dp/rp) but once you reach a certain point in the tune, the K04 is just not going to make more power on pump gas by slapping on more mods or trying to "improve" the tune. I think I'm probably there and have no plans to go "big turbo."
 
I run 17 degrees of timing
19psi
11.8 AFR

all at redline with 93 octane, no meth

jussayin it can be done


i was adding timing between runs, at 18 degrees i started seeing some KR and backed it down a degree

Nice! Very cool weather, though. Almost 40 degrees cooler than I'm used to. Stock K04? Chassis dyno, too! Do your VD charts correlate closely? I'm impressed.
 
stock k04 (my 3rd)

during the summer months i throw in a gallon of e85 to keep the knock at bay

havent done a vdyno in ages
 
Thanks, fish. You've got that car running very well. I think I have more mods (dp/rp) but once you reach a certain point in the tune, the K04 is just not going to make more power on pump gas by slapping on more mods or trying to "improve" the tune. I think I'm probably there and have no plans to go "big turbo."

I actually have a full DP, catless. I'm going to do some more logs and run the virtual dyno to see how repeatable my numbers are. I think my first numbers are in the ball park and they might be right on the money, but I will not be convinced until I do more runs and do a side by side comparison.
 
Trading it in for what Will?

An STI. Looking at finding a good deal on a '12 right now but I'll probably end up putting a deposit down on a '13 and ordering exactly what I want.

But I still need to do my CV axle and brakes... When are you going to change yours? I'd be interested in getting together and doing it at the same time, or maybe the same weekend. It's not really a job I feel like taking on myself.

Doesn't Marc have a lift?
 
I added a little fuel to the gas tank this morning, I was able to get 292 miles on the last tank and that was without the gas light coming on. I was pretty happy.
 
STI? Wow, I didn't see that one coming. lol. Anyway, I don't know exactly when I will change mine. Right now I'm trying to figure out what the little soft metal ring is around the axle at the inner side that is messed up. I'm guessing it gets damaged during removal but I have to figure out the part number and how to switch it out. I posted about it on msf. I'll definitely let you know though. Do you have yours already?

An STI. Looking at finding a good deal on a '12 right now but I'll probably end up putting a deposit down on a '13 and ordering exactly what I want.

But I still need to do my CV axle and brakes... When are you going to change yours? I'd be interested in getting together and doing it at the same time, or maybe the same weekend. It's not really a job I feel like taking on myself.

Doesn't Marc have a lift?
 
Yeah I know! I'm a huge Mazda fan, but I don't know what I would get that is as practical as a Speed3 but an increase in performance within the Mazda brand.

I haven't gotten a new axle yet. I haven't driven my Speed at all in the last couple weeks so I'm not in a real hurry to get it fixed. Plus if I trade it in I'm not fixing the CV axle :) But that isn't look likely for at least a couple months.

I think this is what you're talking about: http://www.mazda3 forums.com/index.php?topic=62973.0
He mentions the metal ring farther down the how-to. Doesn't sound like it is required.
 
Yep, I just got a response on MSF saying it is a dust shield and is not necessary. Since mine isn't very badly damaged, I'll leave it on. I would like to get this done sometime before the auto-x so I'll let you know when I plan to do it.
 
next car after this must be awd

i do not trust myself modding something over 400whp with only the back wheels putting it down
 
Yep, I just got a response on MSF saying it is a dust shield and is not necessary. Since mine isn't very badly damaged, I'll leave it on. I would like to get this done sometime before the auto-x so I'll let you know when I plan to do it.

Sounds good. I don't think I'm going to do mine until September at the earliest. I'm pretty busy the next few weeks.

Sti eh? Sticking with hatch?

Nah, I want the sedan. Because it comes with the obnoxious wing :D

11'STI_Walkonwater_1024x768.jpg
 
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