Estimated cost of head work at Paeco

[twilightprotege]

scorch - we really need to convince MAM motorsports or whatever the hell their name is that a 60mm TB would be lovely

 

[scorch70]

scorch - we really need to convince MAM motorsports or whatever the hell their name is that a 60mm TB would be lovely

haha, yeah, if we can get enough people building up the NA side of the house, we should be able to get more vendor support. Heck, Paeco might be able to do it. Speaking of them, if any of you want a catalog from them, they offer a free one. Its about 100 pages, and tells about all the services that they offer. Just email them at paeco@hiwaay.net

Nope, I don't work for them, but I wish I did. Maybe the head work would be a bit cheaper.

Yeah, Gen1, you may be right about just install the head and see where my weaknesses are. I had planned on building up the bottom end first, then doing a full engine swap, but it will be a few months before I can afford to even think about that. So we will see.

Timetable has been pushed up a little, I am taking the head down this wknd instead of next. Just means i will have it back sooner too.


scorch70

 

[twilightprotege]

i think i read in the TB thread in the FI section that they were thinking of making a billet 65mm and 60mm TB. the 65mm will be too big for NA, but the 60 would be nice

 

[stdntDrvr]

corksport sells a 60mm TB...it's $540...kinda steep...but it is made by AutoExe

 

[scorch70]

corksport sells a 60mm TB...it's $540...kinda steep...but it is made by AutoExe

They didnt just bore out a stock one, correct? God, thats a lot of money for a TB.


scorch70

 

[stdntDrvr]

well, after looking over their site, they have one for the 1.6L...i know they were in the process of making one for the 2.0L a while back...but they don't have it listed anymore...that's odd.

 

[shinzen]

Well, essentialspeed.com has a 3mm overbore available for $266, requires a core exchange, but does include the new butterflies... I seem to remember someone else doing that too, for a little less $$

 

[Gen1GT]

Well, essentialspeed.com has a 3mm overbore available for $266, requires a core exchange, but does include the new butterflies... I seem to remember someone else doing that too, for a little less $$

Essential Speed rules. I live near them, but their 1st Gen stuff is limited. They do lots of custom work though.....

 

[twilightprotege]

damn i so dont want to have to worry about a core exchange!!!!

 

[shinzen]

Well, you could always go to a junkyard and pick one up- but that increases the cost of the tb... I still want them to work on getting that high flow IM put together too.

 

[scorch70]

Delivered head to Paeco today. Carl Stringfellow (the person I have been in contact with there) said it would be 5 to 6 weeks. No big deal - now I have to find a block and crank to build.

When they get finished, I will get the cam specs and valve sizes to you guys.


scorch70
2500 dollars poorer

 

[twilightprotege]

yeah cam specs and valve stuff would be great to put in a NA library (damn i need to pull my finger out and make one)

 

[gino]

Hey, guyz. Picked up on this thread late.

Slowly building up the 03.5 P5 NA: Injen CIA, Magnaflow CB, Essential Speed shorty header, ES TB--overbored to 62 mm, Denso Iridiums.

Haven't dynoed the car since TB and plugs were dropped in, but it seriously rips my wife's 03.6 ES with same mods minus TB/plugs. Will try to dyno this week, pull a 0-60 time and post. Stayed with an Audi 1.8 turbo yesterday from exit ramp to the hiway at 75...let him go.

Re: PAECO cams. They're the Probe ME6600s at $210/ea, $420/pr plus shipping. Carl and I discussed specs this morning. Duration/lift on both 280, 324 @.050, but I/E lobe profiles are quite different. PAECO ground these for serious street and autocross work with lower mid-range torque starting at 2500 and pulling strongly to 6600 in the FS-DE. PAECO has no dyno sheets, but feedback from buyers has been excellent. Carl says he isn't sure they'll run to 6600 without float and recommends the double spring set w/aluminum or titanium retainers. However, other grinders say their street cams should have no problems with stock springs.

Next on the list: MP3 ECU, possible header change to a 4/2/1 minus first cat, cams. Like to have the head redone, but need a spare. Budget won't handle it currently. No bottom-up rebuild with forged rods, HC pistons, racing balance, clutch/FW, etc. in the immediate future. Think a piggy-back ECU is needed more than a short block...

Let's keep pushin' the NA Pros. (thumb)

 

[scorch70]

Hey, guyz. Picked up on this thread late.

Slowly building up the 03.5 P5 NA: Injen CIA, Magnaflow CB, Essential Speed shorty header, ES TB--overbored to 62 mm, Denso Iridiums.

Haven't dynoed the car since TB and plugs were dropped in, but it seriously rips my wife's 03.6 ES with same mods minus TB/plugs. Will try to dyno this week, pull a 0-60 time and post. Stayed with an Audi 1.8 turbo yesterday from exit ramp to the hiway at 75...let him go.

Re: PAECO cams. They're the Probe ME6600s at $210/ea, $420/pr plus shipping. Carl and I discussed specs this morning. Duration/lift on both 280, 324 @.050, but I/E lobe profiles are quite different. PAECO ground these for serious street and autocross work with lower mid-range torque starting at 2500 and pulling strongly to 6600 in the FS-DE. PAECO has no dyno sheets, but feedback from buyers has been excellent. Carl says he isn't sure they'll run to 6600 without float and recommends the double spring set w/aluminum or titanium retainers. However, other grinders say their street cams should have no problems with stock springs.

Next on the list: MP3 ECU, possible header change to a 4/2/1 minus first cat, cams. Like to have the head redone, but need a spare. Budget won't handle it currently. No bottom-up rebuild with forged rods, HC pistons, racing balance, clutch/FW, etc. in the immediate future. Think a piggy-back ECU is needed more than a short block...

Let's keep pushin' the NA Pros. (thumb)

Cool Gino, thanks for the info. I hadnt even talked to Carl about what specs they were grinding the cams to yet.

Should have my head back in about 3 weeks. I'll take pics and post em up when I get it back. Should be looking pretty nice.


scorch70

 

[Gen1GT]

Good info Gino. It's good to see yet another Protege guy serious about the all-motor route. Once more of us are making some serious power(ie, like when a few of us are laying down 170whp or more), it'll be even more inspiration for would-be NA wannabes to 'keep it real'.

Damn, I sure hate having to look at my car every day at work, knowing I can't drive it, or buy more GoFast parts til I fix the front end.....

 

[gino]

Damn, I sure hate having to look at my car every day at work, knowing I can't drive it, or buy more GoFast parts til I fix the front end.....

Whajja do to the front end, Josh?

 

[DooMer_MP3]

...
Re: PAECO cams. They're the Probe ME6600s at $210/ea, $420/pr plus shipping. Carl and I discussed specs this morning. Duration/lift on both 280, 324 @.050, but I/E lobe profiles are quite different. PAECO ground these for serious street and autocross work with lower mid-range torque starting at 2500 and pulling strongly to 6600 in the FS-DE. PAECO has no dyno sheets, but feedback from buyers has been excellent. Carl says he isn't sure they'll run to 6600 without float and recommends the double spring set w/aluminum or titanium retainers. However, other grinders say their street cams should have no problems with stock springs.
...

You think they could make a slightly less aggressive cam? Something a bit more streetable and something that wouldn't cause valve float?

EDIT - blah. Looks like you tell them what you're planning, and they give you some cams/specs. Nice.

Chris

 

[gino]

I hadnt even talked to Carl about what specs they were grinding the cams to yet. Should have my head back in about 3 weeks. I'll take pics and post em up when I get it back. Should be looking pretty nice.

Looking at duration of 280 degrees I/E, it might be a bit agressive for the street, but this is all workable. Lift is fine from other grinds I've seen. Not a lot out there for Pros, Probes, 626s or MX-6s, but I haven't covered everything, by far, in my search.

As for your head work, looks great but pricey. Ran bigger valves in all my Alfas, but they had hemi chambers and basically were racing-derived head designs to begin with. Porting was not so much hogging out, but detailing existing openings for max flow.

As for the FS, here's another way to go for those of us who haven't shopped a head/intake combo for hand worked ports:
http://www.extrudehone.com/group.html.

Note! This is the chance for 6 of us seriously looking at NA builds to get porting done at a GB rate!

Getting back to the Alfa builds: Porting/polishing intakes and heads, plus cams with or without bigger valves will gain a bunch; valves if max flow is the bottom line. Careful cam tweaking will give another few ponies.

Final stage on the FS, as far as I'm concerned: forged rods (stock glass-peened and polished will do), HC jugs, knife-edged crank, lightened FW and upgraded clutch/PP assemby, and a gnat's ass balance job on all internals and reciprocating parts should put the icing on the cake.

Let's keep this thread cookin' and research as much info as possible on streetable, reliable FS-DEs that will pull with the best out there.

 

[scorch70]

Final stage on the FS, as far as I'm concerned: forged rods (stock glass-peened and polished will do), HC jugs, knife-edged crank, lightened FW and upgraded clutch/PP assemby, and a gnat's ass balance job on all internals and reciprocating parts should put the icing on the cake.

These are my next steps Gino. I am looking for a short block as we speak. Got a couple of possibilities. When Paeco gets done with the head, I would like to drop off the block for rods, pistons, crank work, etc. We will see.


broke soon,
scorch70

 

[Gen1GT]

Whajja do to the front end, Josh?

This happened to my car. It actually happened last August. The car was off the road til Feb, when I decided to start driving it. I had insurance still, but the sticker had expired that month. Believe it or not, that was actually enough damage to write-off the car. Which means it's considered salvage. So I bought the car back off my insurance company, and was going to get it fixed myself. It needs to have the bumper mounts straightened, and it'll cost $500 just for the re-titling paperwork. So I put it off in favour of performance parts since Feb. I was driving it around like that, and with the expired plates and got pulled over. They took my plates and I had to tow the car to my work. So now I have to spend all my money to fix it and retitle it. Even though I'd rather be spending it on dyno time, headers etc.....